A 3.7 from Princeton is more competitive than a 3.7 from other Ivies. That being said, a 3.7 from an Ivy is about twice as competitive as a 4.0 at UT.

Wall Street leaders now understand that they made a mistake, one born of their innocent and trusting nature. They trusted ordinary Americans to behave more responsibly than they themselves ever would, and these ordinary Americans betrayed their trust.
 
A 3.7 from Princeton is more competitive than a 3.7 from other Ivies. That being said, a 3.7 from an Ivy is about twice as competitive as a 4.0 at UT.
Depends. A 3.7 from UT in, say, Engineering, is generally tougher to get than at a liberal arts school like Princeton. I believe UT is also beating most Ivy Leagues in the engineering disciplines as well.

If I were hiring for S&T and had to choose between a kid from Georgia Tech with a 4.0 in Mech. E and an Art History major from Princeton with a 4.0, I'd take the Mech. E guy, all other things being equal. A 4.0 in engineering at a state school is about two extra standard deviations harder to get than a 4.0 in liberal arts.

 
Best Response
Are you kidding me? Liberal arts?
Yes. That's Princeton's focus. Princeton's a great school and a bit of a research institution in most areas, but it's weaker in the quantitative disciplines. I'm not trying to troll or dump on Princeton- I'm just saying that for a position with strong quantitative requirements like most in the capital markets, Princeton may not be the first choice. You'd probably look to MIT, then Stanford, CMU, and a handful of engineering schools like UT-Austin's before getting to a more liberal-arts-focused school like Princeton. Princeton's strong in Engineering, too, but it does take a back seat to some state schools (including UT in some disciplines).

Just try not to dump on UT Austin when a 4.0 GPA from many (not all, maybe not even most) programs there means you're probably smarter (at least quantitatively) than someone with a 3.7 GPA from many (again, not all) programs at Princeton.

aptbc:
Thank goodness you are not.
Not yet (give it another year or two), but people like me but a few years older certainly are. Engineers from state schools have moved up pretty quickly at the BBs since the financial crisis. In any case, UT-Austin, Georgia Tech, Michigan, and Berkeley (along with obviously MIT, CMU, and Stanford) are more selective in most engineering disciplines when it comes to quantitative strengths than the typical liberal arts program at an Ivy.
 

The reason I am asking as a sophomore who attend school on full financial aid, I am having hard time getting first round interviews. So far, I only got few interviews. Therefore, I am skittish and asking is it my GPA or is due to lack of connections and not having resources to break into the field.

 
ibdgirl1:
The reason I am asking as a sophomore who attend school on full financial aid, I am having hard time getting first round interviews. So far, I only got few interviews. Therefore, I am skittish and asking is it my GPA or is due to lack of connections and not having resources to break into the field.
Relax. The reason you're not getting interviews is that you're a sophomore. It's perfectly normal not to have a sophomore year internship at a BB. Just try to line up something this summer that either involves finance or your degree, and you'll be fine for your Junior year internship.

During my Junior-year internship (again, Capital Markets side, not IBD), most of my fellow interns had previous work experience, but only a handful had them at BBs. Start calling up firms, ask them if they need someone to work for them for $9.50/hour (what I did- at the time, it was the most I'd ever made on an hourly basis in my life), and you'll get another $30/hour worth of resume-building experience in the process.

Don't worry. Just find something to do this summer and you'll be fine for next year.

 
bean:
@illiniprogrammer

wasn't calling you a troll...I was refering to the OP. Not trying to be a d*ck but it's like saying "I wonder if my ferrari is faster than his toyota?" Really?

Well, if you talk to folks into the drag racing scene, the fastest cars aren't Ferraris- they're supped-up Mitsubishis. IIRC, Mitsubishis have a lot more room under the hood to fit more equipment.

My point is that yes, some things are more prestigious, but when push comes to shove, other things can be better sometimes. The Chicago prop shops figured that out before the crash, and now New York is catching on, too.

 
theATL:
illiniprogrammer,

Princeton has a VERY strong quantitative presence. Correction: Their math graduate program is #1 according to us news.

True, but there's more engineers than math majors in the world; I think their engineering program is ranked 8th or 9th. It's got a respectable quantitative program, but again, the question is 4.0 GPA at UT vs. 3.7 at Princeton. By virtue of the size of the programs, the US News rankings, and the selectivity of admission, it's fair to say that the smartest engineer at UT Austin is just as smart as the smartest engineer from Princeton. I got into Princeton for Engineering but was rejected from Berkeley- a school just like UT- for what it's worth. (To rub salt in the wound, the Golden Bears usually beat the Illini at football)
illini is a joker. i don't go to princeton, but i worked with princtonites over the summer, and even their economics major (math track) is probably as hard as any thing in GA Tech.
I dunno. I specialized in CS Algorithms and Theory, and I'm pretty sure that Princeton's algorithms prof would probably struggle to get a B in Ga. Tech's Algorithms course. Partly by virtue of the fact that it's a little tougher than Princeton's; partly by virtue of the fact that I'm told they curve to a C- average for it.

Princeton's a great program, but it gets left in the dust by a number of state schools when it comes to US News rankings in engineering.

 
IlliniProgrammer:

I dunno. I specialized in CS Algorithms and Theory, and I'm pretty sure that Princeton's algorithms prof would probably struggle to get a B in Ga. Tech's Algorithms course. Partly by virtue of the fact that it's a little tougher than Princeton's; partly by virtue of the fact that I'm told they curve to a C- average for it.

Princeton's algorithms professor would struggle to get a B in Ga Tech's Algorithms course? Are you full of shit?

 
theATL:
illiniprogrammer,

Princeton has a VERY strong quantitative presence. Correction: Their math graduate program is #1 according to us news.

Technically, math is a liberal art.

More relevantly, Harvard has a top math program. Does that make it not a LA school? The LA is certainly not mutually exclusive with having solid quantitative programs.

 
Technically, math is a liberal art.

More relevantly, Harvard has a top math program. Does that make it not a LA school? The LA is certainly not mutually exclusive with having solid quantitative programs.

That's true, but most Math programs simply aren't anywhere as big as Engineering programs. 1/4 of the students at UIUC were engineering students (I'm sure UT's numbers are similar); is it really true that 1/4 of the students at Harvard or Princeton are Math majors?

Most of the students I met who were hired in from Princeton and Harvard had soft science degrees. Yes; there were some math majors, but most students didn't have strong quant backgrounds. They had a few calc classes, but I don't think most had diffy'qs or even linear algebra. During the analyst training, it was pretty clear who had been working with numbers for the past four years and who hadn't, and I wound up getting conscripted as a tutor for the soft science/arts majors from Ivy League schools.

Back to my original point: In many majors (including ones that fit well for trading), a 4.0 from UT is just as tough to get as a 3.7 from Princeton. Actually, by virtue of more draconian curves and competitive admissions processes, a 3.7 might even be as tough to get at UT as a 3.7 from Princeton in some majors

 

illini is a joker. i don't go to princeton, but i worked with princtonites over the summer, and even their economics major (math track) is probably as hard as any thing in GA Tech

 

Is a 36" computer monitor considered big? Would I be able to read the font on my new monitor?

Is bench pressing 600lbs considered a lot? I don't want my friends to think I am a weakling.

If my Roth IRA only has $1 billion dollars in it, could I retire at age 65, or should I work another year?

 

@illiniprogrammer

I was speaking in general terms Ferraris are faster than toyotas...

of course ppl from HYPS etc could be beaten by non ivy kids... but the general idea is that a 3.7 from HYPS is damn good, and if your not getting a interview/job/whatever it must be something else... to think your not getting interviews b/c your a 3.7 HYPS instead of 3.8 at HYPS is beyond naive...

 

Does family connections (or wealth) helps in getting a leg up during the recruitment process. Let us say if the person is related to someone bigwig in the Wall Street helps. I am just wondering .........

 

I know few of my classmates who took multi-variable calculus and linear algebra in high school. As a freshman in college, they enrolled in higher-level math classes with me. Math is not the issue at all. It is just a sinking feeling that connection can matter so much .....

 
ibdgirl1:
hkibd123:

I wish I were trolling. I am in pain with what is happening around me. First time I find myself very disturbed as what I see due to lack of money and ….. .

The fact that your parents are paying for private school (my parents couldn't afford Stanford) indicates that you have much better opportunities than most people in this country. So you're not getting a banking internship like a few other sophomores who have rich families. Most junior year interns I worked with didn't have rich families. Worst comes to worst, you will just have to go work for a consulting firm when you graduate. In the long run, you will probably earn more than most bankers.

Relax. You're a sophomore. When you're a junior, you'll get a better internship.

 
Erwe422:
Princeton has grade deflation. It's something like only 35% in a given class can get As (actually I think it's divided by department).
At Illinois, the grades are almost always a normal distribution centered on C+/B- with a standard deviation of one full grade. Thus, only about 15% of the class can get an A. I believe this is pretty common amongst most state school engineering programs.

Think about it. If a class at Princeton hands out 35% As and mostly Bs to the rest of the students, that's a ~3.0-3.3 mean GPA. At most state schools, the mean GPA is a 2.5 in Engineering as a result of the curve used. Professors claim they're being nice because when they were in school, the mean GPA was a 2.0.

 

I feel like a ton of people on this board completely miss the point when they ask the 'what are my chances' threads.

Bottom line is this: If you go to a target school, yes, your GPA/experience/extracurrics matter, but believe me, the trump card in all instances is your network and if you know someone at the bank who can vouch for you. The target schools, in most instances, are pretty small places. So yes, it definitely helps if you know people and/or have connections. You will ultimately need someone to 'go to bat' for you at the end, especially if you're on the fence.

As someone who used to recruit at a BB for my alma mater, the people reviewing the resumes are comprised of alums from the college (young and old). The senior guys definitely tend to rely on the junior bankers/traders/salespeople/whomever to do a sanity check on the incoming SAs/FTers. When you have 80-100 kids dropping resumes for 10-15 interview positions, it becomes very easy to throw out people who may be perfect on paper, but no one has a clue as to who they are. That being said, we often took a mix of kids we knew/kids we thought were strong. It's definitely important to be well-rounded and alums can usually judge that from the activities you do on campus, courses you take, etc.

 

It's great that some of your mathematicians worked on a few of the foundations of computational theory 30 years ago. However, based on this logic, students should study Mathematics in India- where the decimal system was invented- rather than Princeton.

If you want to get into deep discussions about Wuthering Heights and still graduate with an engineering degree, go to a liberal arts school like Princeton, Harvard, Yale, or Brown. If you want to get an engineering degree with all of the rigor required to become a top-notch developer, it's time to think about UT or one of the other schools with a stronger engineering program.

At the end of the day, I don't think UT and Princeton are really competing in the same fields and maybe it's not fair to Princeton to compare the two programs without factoring in the liberal arts. You don't spend as much time learning about Ming dynasty at UT- that time gets spent on putting together BNF definitions of languages. For 45 credit hours of required CS courses, Princeton manages to hold up all right against some of the true engineering programs out there; I just think it makes more sense to rank liberal arts programs separately so Princeton can compete based on the fact that it teaches students the liberal arts more.

It's great that Princeton is teaching financial engineering, but again, Princeton doesn't offer a true quantitative education if students are required to spend half their time taking History, English, and the soft sciences.

 
IlliniProgrammer:
It's great that some of your mathematicians worked on a few of the foundations of computational theory 30 years ago. However, based on this logic, students should study Mathematics in India- where the decimal system was invented- rather than Princeton. I

That was not the point. The point was your assumption that it is a liberal arts college, when it is a research institution with numerous Nobel Laureates. Name some from the state schools you mentioned... UT? probably quite pitiful...

IlliniProgrammer:
become a top-notch developer

I think you're talking about recruiting for a tech firm (Google, Microsoft, etc)... or perhaps IB tech

IlliniProgrammer:

if students are required to spend half their time taking History, English, and the soft sciences.

You're right - "if". Unfortunately, it's a totally wrong assumption. What do you mean by "soft sciences"? Financial engineers aside, Math and Physics majors are far better than engineers in inventing and developing quant models.

 

A quick anecdote to supplement Illini's point. A good friend of mine graduated from one of HYP with a MechE degree. Kid was smart as all hell, graduated summa with something like a 3.9 taking the top-level courses in the department. However, when he went to look for standard engineering jobs, he found himself being beat out by kids from state schools, MIT, CalTech etc. Why? HYP engineering degrees are not considered as rigorous as some state school degrees. Such is life.

For the OP, though this might have sunk in by now, a 3.7 is not what's holding you back, and certainly not your sophomore year. I got a JPM internship my sophomore year with a 3.6 and jackshit in the way of networking. Don't panic now, but start reaching out to older friends who've been going through this process and ask them to look over your resume and give you pointers. If you aren't very involved in campus activities, now's a great time to get involved.

 

Hmmm....interesting discussion going on here, so long as the OP is in fact not a troll. Will say that from what I've seen, the connections do indeed matter a shi# ton more than even grades or what school you went to or what your courseload was. Sure, you need to meet a certain standard in terms of grades to jump through the initial screen, but beyond that, it's knowing the people who are going to be considering you through your own network. Whether that network comes from Mom/Dad or from your own hustling, the answer remains the same: connections and network matter, arguably more than anything else.

 

Necessitatibus recusandae rerum necessitatibus quis. Aperiam soluta maiores architecto omnis consectetur. Temporibus delectus corrupti voluptatum similique.

Magnam quis qui id sed asperiores pariatur optio. Aut sit eum incidunt laudantium est labore. Labore et omnis aperiam.

Non recusandae vero sed omnis vitae in. Illo odit ut id libero dolorem quis. Corporis deserunt autem quaerat. Qui error veniam voluptatem expedita et.

 

Qui saepe doloremque repellendus quia. Et dolorem qui odio neque quaerat tempore est. Et nam quia iste dolore repellendus ad. Exercitationem vel rerum dolorum aspernatur.

Blanditiis libero quasi illo ea. Suscipit omnis nihil iure et sunt debitis non et. Quisquam expedita cumque autem est autem. Non et aperiam architecto hic nemo ducimus. Rerum rem est soluta fuga repellat. Odio dolores distinctio est nemo. Ratione libero commodi quis nihil unde ut temporibus.

Maiores quo deleniti autem nisi enim. Est cumque repudiandae ut id et dolorum sit ipsum. Sed maxime est asperiores et sit nisi.

Accusamus placeat laudantium officia. Quia ut accusantium sed dignissimos et repellat. Fugit quam maxime laudantium sunt sint quo voluptatem cumque. Facilis dolore tempora ratione quidem nihil esse. Accusamus enim itaque labore qui laudantium error assumenda. Est autem et et.

 

Temporibus distinctio incidunt ex sed cupiditate velit sint. Dolorem est reiciendis neque et suscipit praesentium dolores. Distinctio ut molestiae ea. Commodi sint voluptatem illum qui aperiam qui alias. Modi aut quisquam asperiores nostrum minus voluptatibus officia.

Perspiciatis sint cumque vitae sed. Odit nam aut consequatur cupiditate ipsam. Eos at sit minima voluptatem.

Omnis et vitae quasi numquam. Sit quas explicabo adipisci aut ullam.

Career Advancement Opportunities

March 2024 Investment Banking

  • Jefferies & Company 02 99.4%
  • Goldman Sachs 19 98.8%
  • Harris Williams & Co. (++) 98.3%
  • Lazard Freres 02 97.7%
  • JPMorgan Chase 03 97.1%

Overall Employee Satisfaction

March 2024 Investment Banking

  • Harris Williams & Co. 18 99.4%
  • JPMorgan Chase 10 98.8%
  • Lazard Freres 05 98.3%
  • Morgan Stanley 07 97.7%
  • William Blair 03 97.1%

Professional Growth Opportunities

March 2024 Investment Banking

  • Lazard Freres 01 99.4%
  • Jefferies & Company 02 98.8%
  • Goldman Sachs 17 98.3%
  • Moelis & Company 07 97.7%
  • JPMorgan Chase 05 97.1%

Total Avg Compensation

March 2024 Investment Banking

  • Director/MD (5) $648
  • Vice President (19) $385
  • Associates (86) $261
  • 3rd+ Year Analyst (13) $181
  • Intern/Summer Associate (33) $170
  • 2nd Year Analyst (66) $168
  • 1st Year Analyst (202) $159
  • Intern/Summer Analyst (144) $101
notes
16 IB Interviews Notes

“... there’s no excuse to not take advantage of the resources out there available to you. Best value for your $ are the...”

Leaderboard

1
redever's picture
redever
99.2
2
Secyh62's picture
Secyh62
99.0
3
Betsy Massar's picture
Betsy Massar
99.0
4
BankonBanking's picture
BankonBanking
99.0
5
dosk17's picture
dosk17
98.9
6
DrApeman's picture
DrApeman
98.9
7
kanon's picture
kanon
98.9
8
CompBanker's picture
CompBanker
98.9
9
GameTheory's picture
GameTheory
98.9
10
Jamoldo's picture
Jamoldo
98.8
success
From 10 rejections to 1 dream investment banking internship

“... I believe it was the single biggest reason why I ended up with an offer...”