How do banks differentiate among MBA students during IBD recruitment at M7/T15 schools?
Any insight or personal anecdotes on how banks weight different factors of MBA students' profiles (e.g., GMAT, undergrad GPA, work experience, interviews, etc.) during the IBD recruitment process?
Top MBAs are often perceived as an "equalizer" of sorts, in which students emerge post-MBA on an even playing field simply by nature of an acceptance to a top school, but there must be some way banks distinguish between Student A and Student B other than interview performance and stats, right?
Curious as well...
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I wouldn't believe the hype, an MBA is definitely not a pure equalizer. Especially in that not all T15 schools are the same. Some are core for certain banks, some are not. It also really depends on the group, not just firm on campus. Just 'cause GS is recruiting at your T15, doesn't mean its IB, could easily be BO, Don't believe what admissions tells you unless you get great details.
If your b-school doesn't have GND, MBA grades DO matter, esp in finance. Undergrad GPA/GMAT matters more at the lower ranked school (sometimes not at all at top ones).
Technicals are important, which is why you want to go to a b-school with a very structured IB placement process. Second years are very helpful and first years rely on them to help for interview prep and informational guidelines.
As with any top b-school job, it's highly selective and do not underestimate the interview process.
I'm going to one of the top programs (HBS/Wharton) and so far bankers tend to acknowledge that I'm going to a prestigious program. Aside from that, I cant imagine my process being any different from a student at a Top 15 school
Practically no one from H/S goes into banking post mba... so, Wharton
Disclaimer: I didn't recruit for IBD post-MBA but I have plenty of friends that did in business school.
The above comment is correct but I want to emphasize how important networking is here. Your school's investment banking club can guide you through the specifics, but as I understand it, every firm has a spreadsheet tracking every interaction they've had with prospective candidate (coffee chats, office visits, cocktail hours etc.) and toward the end of the summer they'll host invite-only events for candidates above a certain threshold of interest. The threshold varies by bank (e.g. certain banks care a lot more than others), but you need to be invited to the closed-list events to get a first round interview invite regardless of what your background is.
Are you saying that networking starts during the summer before school?
Usually the networking doesn't start in the summer prior. My T-15 school very strongly impressed on the IB/MBB/FAANG group not to network early since it's such a structured recruiting process, once you start school though, it's off to the races. Other industries, like entertainment, real estate, or VC/start-ups are almost exactly on the other side of the spectrum and generally have a very loose recruiting process. Some of the bigger firms (think Disney or top REPE shops) have a specific recruiting process but for the most part you're on your own to network and build up a base of contacts to secure offers, so they care less if you start early.
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I don't think this is accurate.....
I'm heading into an MBA program this year and am in a handful of the admitted student slack groups for MBA business schools">M7 schools. Apart from one-off students prepping basic technicals and a few pre MBA diversity programs being hosted by some of the BBs, I've not seen anything (both in the general groups and in the IBD recruiting groups). Suffice it to say, the recruiting will start in the fall as per usual.
Seconded. I'm going to a finance focused MBA business schools">M7 in the fall (CBS/Booth) and this is accurate. I am in the slack/groupme chats for the general class and the banking groups.
Obviously there are diversity networking sessions/events going on with BBs, but that is no different from other years.
Agree. I'm going to an MBA business schools">M7 and in the slack group for 3 M7s, and in all of them people are talking about interview prep and attending diversity events, but there's nothing much else going on until you get to campus.
bump.
There’s no way it is a complete reset.
Some banks might just take someone because they like their pre MBA experience vs. another candidate that may seem more interested/prepared. Banks will trust institutions they recognize, top UG, or other competitive employers.
For ex: If you want to go into healthcare banking and spend the whole 2 years before school memorizing technicals and watching recent transactions; it might benefit you some but you aren’t going to beat out the guy with 6 years of exp. as a VP at Amgen. Even if he just has the basics down. You might be more committed, smarter, and way more advanced technically but it won’t matter because they will think that persons experience matters more.
If you don’t believe me go look at the profiles of people who get into the “better banks.” They almost always have more impressive pre MBA profiles. They probably get the “better banks” because they are better candidates but it’s not a coincidence I never see someone (non URM) with a “weaker” pre MBA exp. at GS. There probably is some guy who was a bank teller for 4 years pre MBA who is insane committed to IB and can smoke any candidate at his T15 technically but he’s not getting the most competitive banks because he was a bank teller. Maybe a stretch but I bet that happens.
Sorry for the rant but the guy who went to Princeton UG and then got fired from BCG and stumbled his way into your T15 has a way better shot at GS than John and his local engineering experience, regardless of how prepared John is.
Interesting perspective. Do you see any difference in general preferences by bank?
For e.g., GS tends to favor candidates with more prestigious undergrad/work experience, EB's care more about technical ability, MM looks for fit, etc.
I've heard EB and MM tend to look for people that can hit the ground running a little faster and therefore care a little bit more about what you did pre-MBA and how technically prepared you are. Apparently this is partly because they have less robust training programs and also because you just get more responsibility earlier on. Outside of that I haven't heard of any specific firm wide preferences.
Haha I'm guessing you haven't spent any time outside of IB/finance. Someone who has spent 6 years as a Vice President at Amgen is probably in their 40s/50s and is in the 99th percentile of seniority at the company. They're not going to get their MBA any time soon.
Yeah because I don't understand the title hierarchy of Amgen I haven't spent much time outside of IB/finance, okay. My point isn't lost. Just someone with 6 years of experience and some of them involve managing people is my point. Thanks for the helpful comment.
Does anyone have a list what IBs have on campus recruiting at what business schools?
What school do you want to know? At most T15's you have access to just about every bank except a few EBs and sometimes GS won't recruit on campus and you have to reach out to alumni there. After you get past T15 its mainly location based.
I don’t have a particular school in mind; I’m just studying for the GMAT and thinking about where to apply get into IB.
Just any T15 will work and then if you have a non NYC location in mind expand your schools out to T25.
It's a structured process with a lot of randomness. The end result is that you'll have go through four hoops (TBD how this will adjust to the pandemic):
Show up to the open-door events (usually campus visits)
Invite-only events: HR will ask feedback from the bankers who represented the firm/bank during stage 1 (open-door events, in case it isn't obvious), and craft the invite-list for further networking.
Interview invitation: you're supposed to apply to these, but if you already got cut in the previous stage, you're not likely to get invited to an interview. Based on how your networking went, you should have a good sense of whether you're getting interviewed.
Interviews themselves: self-explanatory. Could be a Super Day, could have numbered rounds.
So, does your school matter, is there a difference between a T15 and an MBA business schools">M7, bla bla etc etc? There are really just two questions. The macro question: is your school considered a target by XYZ bank you're interested in? The micro question: what does the individual banker you're talking to think.
Bankers have to make a conscious decision to participate in recruiting each yearr. Even at your campus visit, there may be bankers involved who aren't school alumni. And vice versa, there will be school alumni who aren't involved at all, or only passively (ie. if you reach out to them). Some of these bankers are involved every year and are deeply committed to the process; others are just doing it to meet their bank's "holistic" (retarded word) career development program requirements, and couldn't give two squirts of piss.
So, it's a structured process, but there's some randomness to which bankers you'll meet throughout the process. Recall the two questions above, macro (target school Y/N), and micro (individual bankers' views).
At Columbia University they have a royal rumble.
Last year there was an intense royal rumble that took place in the middle of the library. It last over two hours, the longest ever, and 6 ferocious associates were left. 3 of the 6 were filthy animals that went to an undergrad at an ivy and had the advantage of eating organic food funded by their rich parents, one student was a bulky non-target student that went to Barucz, the other two went to a random school and did 6 years at a Big 4 doing auditing.
The Barucz student was on a role, eliminated 15 of the 50 students that joined the rumble. In an instant, he did a cartwheel on the table, ducked under, and drop-kicked two of the ivy leaguers. the crowd went wild. We are now down to 4 people. The auditors were going at it, so it was the ivy leaguer vs the non-target. The non-target gets his with a punch, his knees start to give out. The ivy leaguer jumps on top and drops the elbow from hell on the throat, ouch. The other non-targets want to help out who are watching, but sadly they can only watch....
Will the ivy-leaguer continue to put a beating on the non-target and then eliminate the other accountants to win the associate contract?
To be continued....
Differentiators are: 1a. Having any finance experience on your resume (banking, PE, good corp fin roles, etc) 1b. Secondarily, prestigious consulting roles or big 4 tax can check the box 3. High GMAT 4, Other differentiators like the CFA, CPA etc 5. Prestigious UG 6. Other indicators of a heavy interest in finance (clubs, etc)
EDIT: I'll add to this - and it's most important - "desire to be in banking". Needs to be 10/10. Don't let them see you recruit for non-banking businesses or industries and always prioritize banking events over others. It's a draining career and they want to see high commitment at the start of the funnel.
The more boxes you check the better. The more prestigious the bank, the more you need to check. The lower down the T-15, the more competitive it gets.
Then it comes down to networking. Missing one event can cut you from the list. Don't network now, wait until the process starts. Honestly there's more risk in screwing things up by engaging early than benefit that you might realize. It's a very structured environment once on campus.
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