How Do You Lateral Without Your Firm Finding Out?
Given how unstructured and informal lateral processes tend to be, how do you go about this without being scared shitless that somebody at your firm will find out? Finance is such a small community and MDs/VPs seem to all know each other.
And for initial outreach, who tf do you contact? A random analyst? A random associate? Do you need a close connection in order to get in? Would appreciate insights from anyone who's gone through this process.
Don’t overthink too hard. As long as you yourself don’t go around telling people, no one will find out. frankly COVID makes lateral interviews insanely easy because no one will know if you go out and do a Zoom interview.
Working on lateraling right now. I started emailing alumni first (highest response rate), then people that were at my firm and left (ok response rate) and then some strangers with no connections (worst response rate). Get on the phone with people and chat for 30 minutes and ask questions/get advice. Most of the time people aren't hiring right at the second so then it's a matter of keeping in touch with them and/or HR if they send your resume to HR and give you the HR contact.
No one has ever threatened to tell my group that I'm interested in leaving. Would be a pretty dick thing to do and not sure what someone would gain from this. Majority of people in banking and have worked at multiple banks anyways so not like they have some die hard loyalty where they feel obliged to rat on you. Most people have gone through this process as well. With WFH it's actually been easier to network and interview. Much easier to disappear for a little for a call/interview. While I was in the office for network calls I would just step outside for 30 minutes and take the call. Don't think anyone noticed (at least no one ever said anything) and if they did notice I don't really care (I'm trying to leave anyways so who cares if this hurts my year end rating/bonus that I won't be around for).
I usually start with MDs then work my way done. Much better to have a MD trying to help than an analyst. I actually never reach out to analysts. I'm a 3rd year now and don't need some 1st/2nd years that's fresh on the desk giving me advice and not going to add much value for me. Also in my experience analysts are usually only really good for pushing your resume further up (associate/VP) which is fine but rather just go straight there myself.
Contacting random people is fine if it's a group/role you really want. Your response rate will be low but some people are very nice and will be willing to help someone out.
After lots of networking it's a little bit of waiting game until something opens up where you have connections. From there it's on you to impress the rest of the group and get the offer but at least you got your foot in the door. I also spend some time applying to jobs posted on banks careers website. Although my hit rate on getting interviews from that is very low (got to be like 1%), I still have gotten some interviews at amazing groups with just an online application. Once a week or so I go through all the banks websites and apply to any new openings I'm interested in. For me the process has been taking awhile as I started early in the year (but obviously COVID put everything on hold for a few months), but I say that to just get your expectations right and that you might be at your current place for a little longer than you think.
The process has been definitely a lot more work than I thought it was going to be. I have gotten 2 superdays so far (unfortunately 0/2 so far but one of those superdays the bank just put me in a new process with another group as I got good feedback they just went with someone that was already covering that specific industry for the group I was interviewing for). Definitely getting more interviews and responses recently than I was March-August. Feels like people are spread a little thin and looking to hire experienced people that they feel can get up to speed very quickly.
Best of luck.
fantastic response. do you reach out using your personal email or work email?
Personal email! You don't want compliance and your boss reading your networking emails and that you want to leave haha in my email I usually just mention I'm a third year analyst in x group at y bank
Poster above is spot on with the approach. I lateraled from MM to a bulge bracket and struck out a few times before landing where I did.
You need to be persistent to eventually be successful and although it might get deflating at times, it’s easy to identify and minimize your mistakes after a couple of attempts. There are only so main technical questions they can ask you, either you’re bound to pick it up or (trigger warning) you might be where you should be. Know your deals cold and doing your diligence on the firm usually gives you a leg up. Doesn’t hurt to play up an interesting part of yourself too, remote non withstanding culture still matters.
Don’t worry about your old firm finding out, especially if you received your bonus this year, just make sure to be respectful and don’t be a jack ass about it. It’s a good point that one positive aspect of Covid is getting to maneuver. Keep the network fresh and put in above above average effort studying your deal or a few trends In whatever industry.
Good luck. Contrary to what you might hear the grass is sometimes greener. Be confident in yourself
Good advice. The whole process is actually pretty draining when you're working on top of it. Just be aware it will take some persistence and that it won't happen over night.
Interviews can also always be a crap shoot. You never know who you're going to interview with, what questions they like to ask and how they're feeling that day. I've had first rounds get extremely technical and not move on (where I hung up the phone and knew well I'm not moving on that went awful). On the flip side I've had superdays with much easier technicals where I nailed them all and actually got a comment from someone who said I did the best out of everyone that day on the technicals (but didn't get the job). I've also done case studies and excel tests at some places.
The lateral market is definitely unstructured and unpredictable so keep your head up and keep applying and networking. As someone said below, you will get some interviews from just dropping an application online and I've had some success with that at top shops I would say your hit rate and likelihood for success will be better with places you networked with
Could I ask a range of firms where you left from and range where you ended up for the BB?
Well I just applied from a top MM and HR reached out to me and now I’m at a top BB GS/MS.
i also had 2 other interviews just by cold applying (eb/bb) so guess you don’t need to network for these roles surprisingly
If you are a current 1Y analyst (started in 08/20), when do you think is the best time to try and lateral IF you know you don't want to be there for the 2Ys. Some context and questions:
- Staffed on live deals, but nothing closed --> Do you have to wait for a closed deal before trying to lateral? Basically trying to figure out the value placed on it
- Clawbacks on bonuses --> are bonus buyouts common or are they very one off?
Thanks!
Bump - I am in a similar position and would be interested in hearing insight on this as well!
im a first year and gonna start looking in jan/feb - i've been on the desk for a little over a month and no point trying to lateral right now for a next summer start date
I would say wait until the beginning of next year if you’re a first year. Personally I would say it doesn’t look great if you’re a month into the job and already telling people you want to jump ship. When lateraling it’s important to have a clear and well thought out story about why you’re leaving your current group and why you want to join the new one. I don’t think a month really on the desk will make any story believable about switching for genuine reasons. I have heard of people lateraling in the first few months so it’s possible but unless you’re in a group you totally despise and are getting a terrible experience then I would wait at least to try and set something up for after your first year bonus in the summer. I had a analyst in my class leave after less than a month and senior bankers did not take it very well
Forgot to comment on clawbacks. Each bank is different here so will probably want to look at your contract. My bank had clawbacks on signing bonus but not on year end bonuses. Others could be different. If I remember correctly Jefferies is a shop that has some strict clawback policies. Never heard of a bank paying the clawback for an analyst but could be wrong
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bump on this. How would this work for internal laterals? More or less the same?
I dabbled in lateral internally a little so would say pretty much the same. Obviously easier if you trying to get into a group you work with frequently. Just will want to be tactful on how you approach it, even internally not all team members will be happy to hear you’re trying to leave the group
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