I have accepted an IB offer from a prestigious BB. I've been told by many to keep following up with the people there, especially bankers in the top groups that you wanted to join. Does it mean that I have to email each banker I know every month to make sure they know who I am and where I want to be placed? Many ppl I know are doing that. I was going to wait until training to talk to different groups. Is it going to be too late?
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IF you know people in the groups you want to join, you should reach out to them. Find out about the culture, dealflow, etc. and try to ask them for more people within the group at various levels who might be willing to talk with you. Let them know you're interested in the group.
That being said, you've got the offer so don't worry too much about group selection. Emailing every month seems a little absurd. You'll very likely get a group you want, but if you want the top groups you'll either need to be a rockstar on paper or get to know some of the analysts / associates who will say they want you in their group.
I dont know how the group selection process works, but I read in another thread that if you want to work in one of the top groups your odds are much better if you're from a target, since the heads of the top groups are more likely to pull for people that went to their alma mater. How accurate is this?
So does that mean that if a non target student manages to get into a BB, will his/her non target status come back to haunt them again in the group placement proces?
Or is group selection based equally on networking, how much the current bankers like you, your performance during training/interviews, your resume and experience et etc??
Or does it simply depend on the bank.
In my experience it depends on at what position you are being considered for. I think you are alluding to a seperate post of mine, which concerned SA positions. After a summer you are given group specific and general IBD offers. Thus SAs who network and don't want to return to their group usually have met and spoken with other groups by this time (and also can later). Thus returning SAs get a leg up on the non SA FTs (especially this year due to the high retention rate). At this point there is no real advantage of being from a target or non-target, as only your reputation and the quality of work you did matters.
For group selection of SAs there is an advantage for target kids. Generally target kids receive their offers earlier and thus have more time to network. Additionally, since kids do not have a previous track record at the bank groups will often choose kids from their alma mater. Now this is my own view, but this is what I have seen over a couple years during SA group selection. Of course networking, likability, experience all matter, but this can explain why a disporportionate amount of target kids join groups dominated by people from their own school. Basically, everyone should be qualified, so without a track record, who would you rather have someone from your school or somewhere else?
Who to network with for group placement? (Originally Posted: 04/06/2013)
Accepted offer at a BB for SA and am networking with various groups. I understand that there is a ranking process - but would I be better off trying to network with associates/VPs, etc, or should I be reaching out to analysts? (i.e.: who has the final say?)
Anyone who will talk to you. Vps/Mds will ultimately have the final say though.
Since it's fairly difficult to get in contact with VPs/MDs (and most incoming SAs don't spreak with them for the most part) will a VP/MD rank a prospective candidate based on their resumes?
Find an alumni from your school for the specific group and ask him to put you in touch with people you should talk to in the group. There is a certain set of people that seem to do the picking (staffer, few VP and experienced Analyst/Associates).
Tactics for Group Placement (Originally Posted: 02/20/2013)
So I have my generalist offer for this summer and now the next step is figuring out which group I will end up in, which is really important obviously. I have a good sense of my group "rankings", which are probably very similar to most peoples'.
The process is basically ranking your top groups and the groups rank their top target candidates. There are 3-4 groups that I am interested in, with 2 of them being my most desired and the next 2 pretty much even after that. Basically, I am not sure if I should allocate most of my time going for my top 1-2 ranked groups and telling them they are my top choice, or networking evenly across all 4 groups and hoping to get one of them.
Also, I have tried to make it clear that I have a strong preference for Product/Coverage (1 of the 2). Anyone ever end up expressing the same preference and getting the opposite?
Yes. I would network evenly with all four groups, however, you should not go around saying to each of those groups that "ur my top choice"; resource managers (aka staffers) all talk to each other during the placement process, so it will go back and hurt you.
I have definitely seen cases where interns don't get placed in their top 8 choices (out of 20) - this is largely driven by the fact that regardless of where you rank them, ultimately the group will have final say. If a groups' resource manager has you as a top candidate, you will get placed there irrespective of where you ranked them, generally.
This is based on first-hand knowledge at a BB. Good luck!
Desk Placement (Originally Posted: 06/01/2010)
Hey all,
I start at the end of June and in the first week on the job will encompass placement and networking, soft skills, and presentation skills. Can I assume that this networking will base where I am placed?
Also, I am a person with a wide range of interests, I am interested or at least semi-interested in almost all desks. My main question is would you rather work on a desk with people you know you will get along with? Or on a desk with some people you know you wont like at all but will like the type of desk?
Thanks!
I would go with people over desk type for first job. You do not want to be screwing up and being afraid to ask questions because you dont want to piss off the people that have wierd personalities.
Seeking advice on FT group placement... MS regional office (Originally Posted: 01/11/2012)
I signed a FT offer from a regional MS office (SF, LA, Chicago), and they told me I wouldn't find out my group placement until during or after training. Among the groups at the office I signed up for, there's one I really want to join over the others. I'm betting that many of the returning summers (they've already been placed) will be filling it up though since the other groups seem not as strong, so there might only be 0-2 spots open. Is there any advice you guys have on positioning myself well for that spot? Should I be networking early or when the time comes? Any way I can be convincing that I'm a good fit for that group?
Def don't start networking about group placement until early summer... They aren't going to give people points for being the first to brown nose.
Thanks for the advice.
Pre-FT: Reaching out to people in division to help with future group placement? (Originally Posted: 05/14/2014)
I start my FT Analyst program in July at a BB. I recently found out the "top 3" groups in the respective division that I will be working in. I am interested in trying to position myself as best as possible to be placed in one of those groups. Do you guys think it would be appropriate if I started reaching out to these groups now ,as an incoming analyst, to "learn more about these groups"? I am not sure how placement works at my firm, but I just want to try and increase my chances at getting into a good group.
I have conducted numerous informational interviews (which is how I eventually landed an interview at the firm), but what types of questions/ convo points should I ask when speaking to everyone at these groups? Their opinions on the sector? Deal flow? What an analyst would generally work in their group?
Any input would be greatly appreciated.
Are the 3 groups all product or coverage groups or a mixture of both?
Both
bump. Thoughts anyone?
Find out how placement works at the BB via HR or someone you interviewed with. I imagine there is a sell day where you meet the different teams and you rank each other in terms of preference. HR then places you accordingly.
If it is indeed a mutual ranking system, I would reach out beforehand to analysts in each of those groups for a chat. After each chat, ask if there is anyone else you can speak to in the group and take it from there.
Networking into Preferred Coverage/Product Group (Originally Posted: 03/29/2015)
Hey WSOer's,
I will be starting as a FT Analyst in July and I was wondering if anyone here could share his/her advice on how to network into a specific coverage/product group.
Thanks guys!
For me into my preferred industry group - be up-to-date on the industry, reach out to people in that group and grab coffee - make them more a friend than just a contact but still a relationship where it feels like you want to learn from them (like you should want to) - ask questions like "How did you get into this group", "Why do you pick the people for your group that you pick", "How can I get considered for your group".
Don't do that with too many groups though - I know a guy who did it with two groups (Sponsors and TMT) and those two groups really really liked him. It was awkward when the Sponsors that did not get to pick him gave him a phone call to ask why TMT thought my friend was 100% for TMT over any other group.
So, best of luck^^
Accepted an Investment Banking offer, now I need to get into the right group.. (Originally Posted: 06/06/2013)
I recently accepted a job at a middle market investment bank. From the research I’ve done, the incoming analysts do not know which group they will be in until we arrive. Each group in the bank has some sort of gathering/event and if you’re interested you are supposed to show up and network. At the end of the period (about five weeks) we rank our top 6-8 groups (supposedly in no specific order). Additionally, the MDs in the groups rank which analysts they liked and HR tries to match the MDs interests with the analysts.
My issue is that I want to be in traditional banking (building the models, learning to value a company) as opposed to a position in S&T. If I need to rank up to 8 groups though, I may need to put one of the S&T positions down. I’m not completely opposed to S&T; the derivatives group or loan sales and trading both interest me.
My approach is to find out as best as I can where the real deal flow is in this bank. What groups have the most going for them b/c obviously every group will try to say it’s them. I’m trying to figure out the best position for exit opportunities, i.e. PE or a hedge fund. I've read online that some people think trading is where the real money is being made on Wall Street nowadays, but I've also read the opposite. This is precisely why I'm not too sure about a position in S&T.
If any people out there have had similar situations to mine, do you have any advice? What did you do? Are you happy with how things worked out? Is there an advantage to being in S&T vs. a coverage group? If so, what would those advantages be?
I’d like some insight and know if my approach is alright. I appreciate any guidance or suggestions. Thank you.
Whichever group pays the least attention to you is probably the best one.
this advice is fucking gold
Please just send them your two weeks notice. There are plenty of kids out there that would kill to just have that offer and actually appreciate it.
He's too good for two weeks notice; advice for OP is to just waltz into the CEO's office, put his feet up on the desk after stepping into dog sh*t, and ask for a recommendation for GS M&A/HBS or 200% base increase + guaranteed bonus.
Honestly, you've made it this far which is excellent. You're getting a little ahead of yourself. Go, meet people, ask them genuine questions, and then make up your mind. Who knows, maybe the people you like the most will be with a group you never would have thought of working with
I just want to clear it up...I'm not ungrateful for my offer at all. I went to a non-target and not many banks came to my university. So I'm more than happy with the offer and the company. I should have made something else clear. In addition to finance, I studied accounting when I was in school. Many of my friends studied accounting and when they got offers they were specializing in one area; for example, they knew they would be in audit or the tax department, etc. So had I gone that route and landed a job, I know I'd be doing audit or something. I don't want to come across at all like I have some sort of problem with my situation. I am more than lucky to have gotten any offer. I was just wondering if there are people who went into their job not really knowing which group they'd be in. And also if there is any advantage to trading versus a coverage group. I'm simply trying to gather as much info as I can.
Also, here is one suggestion for those trying to find something in the industry. This made me stick out when I was interviewing at the banks. I interned for an accounting firm the summer before my senior year. After the internship I decided that I'd rather pursue finance. The internship ended two weeks before the semester started so I wanted to get some form of finance experience b/c at this point I decided I'd apply to whichever banks were coming to my university once I arrived on campus. I went online and found a few small PE shops near my university so I literally just cold called them and told them I was interested in private equity and would work unpaid if I could assist in the office. One of the firms agreed so I worked there three days a week in between classes. The banks seemed to appreciate that kind of initiative. I would recommend doing something like that, or ask a professor is he/she has any research or projects you could work with them on.
You didn't go to a non-target if investment banks came on campus for FO positions....niceeee try there budddyyy
I always thought S&T training/recruiting was completely separate from the Investment Banking activities. Are you sure S&T is included in your 5-week period? Are you sure you didn't sign an offer for an S&T position? (serious question)
I thought so too. In my offer letter my title is Investment Banking Analyst. The way I found out S&T was included during the 5-week period is b/c after we got our offers, the bank paired each incoming analyst with a current first year analyst. The person who was paired with me told me this is how it worked and that he put both coverage groups and S&T positions in his top 6 or 8 or whatever it is, and he ended up as a currency trader. That is why I think during the 5 week period we will meet people in both S&T and Investment Banking Activities.
Strange... doesn't S&T require other skills than IB (maths, markets, pricing VS valuation monkey), making the interview process quite different? Cool for you if its mixed though, gives you a wider array of opportunities to choose from!
Since you want to "build the models, learn to value a company" I think IB is much better suited for you ;) S&T is "real money", but only if you're the best. IB will make it easier to fake it till you make it =P
How do you network your way into your desired group? (FT Analyst) (Originally Posted: 01/26/2013)
If you have an offer, how do you try your best to work for a group that interests you? I know there is the whole placement process, but I am sure a little of it has to be in your control.
Same question but for SA- do any of you older guys have suggestions of how to get into the top (or your preferred) groups once you have your offer?
bump
Talk with your alumni (preferably in that group) who will help you set up informational with bunch of people in that group.
First Week Networking for a Trading Desk (Originally Posted: 06/30/2011)
Does anyone have any tips or advice as to how to get the desks of your choosing during the first week of training where you network with various desks to receive a placement?
How much time should you spend with a group, what should you know going into it, what questions should you ask, and specifically what can you do or indicate to improve your chances of getting chosen?
If it's anything like in Liars Poker, you should tell everyone that someone else already has his/her sights on you.
Might want to ignore me.
Have to be passionate about the desk you want to work on. If you are genuine and not a tool you will hopefully get a bid from them.
Really it is just personality fit with some desks. One desk said they would hire someone who they get along with but might have a lower potential output (read: would make less money for the desk) than someone who is annoying/toolish but would make more money.. take that how you wish.
good luck.
Group Networking (Originally Posted: 12/30/2011)
Found a lot of good information from past threads but there's still little concerning group networking since banks have cut down on sell-days.
Have an offer from a BB (no sell day) and am wondering best ways to get into your group of choice. Would an office visit be perceived as too pushy?
bump
Networking for FT group? (Originally Posted: 03/25/2014)
I'm joining a BB/EB that doesn't assign interns in its investment bank into groups until training starts in June/July. We haven't received any networking documents with the names of the recruiters in each group yet, but given its almost April, should i start emailing people I know in the groups I want to join? If not, when is the earliest to start doing this?
It really depends on the firm - some firms hate it, some don't care. My advice is to go contact your closest alumni or the person you know the best in the firm and ask for his/her tips, because he/she is the one who can tell you whom you should talk to in each group.
Also interesting in hearing others opinions on this. Is it better to just meet in person during training and making a good first impression? Seems more promising than having a potentially awkward phone call (with people who might forget you in 2 months). Opinions?
Networking to secure group (Originally Posted: 01/04/2010)
Hi,
I have a full time BB offer in Europe. I want to try and secure a position in a group other than the 1 i interned in and my question is who is the best person within said group to reach out to. I can get in contact with an analyst in the group that did the same thing as me, interned in a different group then made the change, or I could contact the staffer?
Just need a little advice of the best way to go about this, thanks alot in advance
Talk first to the analyst who transferred groups to get his advice on what works in that BB.
Second, if doing that doesn't help, get in touch with alums from your school in your preferred group.
Don't reach out to the staffer unless you are referred to him by the above -- the staffer is busy enough and won't have any pull until the official assignment of who gets what group.
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I keep on messing up while networking for placement. How negatively will this affect me? (Originally Posted: 03/16/2017)
I have an IB internship at a bulge bracket bank for this coming summer in NYC. I'm now trying to network with groups for placement. I've done some pretty stupid things now twice, and both of them were as a result of carelessness and could have been avoided.
First, HR asked me to submit my resume on a certain date which fell on a Friday. I didn't set a reminder for myself, forgot and ended up submitting it that coming Sunday. Just now, I was supposed to get on a phone call with someone from my top choice of group and I ended up calling them fifteen minutes late because I simply got the times mixed up in my calendar.
Am I fucked? Like seriously, is there any chance of me being placed into my top choice group? Even if I get placed there, is there any chance I can get a return offer having fucked up so hard? I feel like normal people don't make these mistakes I'm just such an idiot.
unclebiff, you really need to get this sorted out ASAP because it will not fly in banking, especially if you want a return offer. Take a look at the Succeeding on the Job posts in the WSO Hall of Fame thread for the IB forum. Read every single one of those threads.
One thing that really helps me is to focus on the task that I have at hand without getting distracted by other things. When you are given a deadline, IMMEDIATELY set yourself a reminder. Email yourself, set a calendar reminder, set a wakeup call on a third party website, ask your mom to remind you, whatever. When you know you have a call on a certain day, put that call in your calendar RIGHT AWAY. Forgetting about deadlines gives the impression that you do not care, and it is very hard to recover from such poor first impressions.
The silver lining is that while your group placement might be f#cked, at least you messed up before starting on the job. Take a few hours to familiarize yourself with all the "this is what analysts need to do" threads on WSO and hit the ground running when you start. Take this as a valuable lesson learned. Good luck.
Thanks for the response. I actually ended up getting on the phone with this person and they were incredibly nice and understanding. He seemed to really like me and even connected me with a VP in one of the groups. I realize that I made a mistake - and I was so upset about it that I will not ever let myself do the same again - but, do you think someone could actually be won over just from a phone call? I'm just afraid that they secretly really do think I am an idiot. Thanks for the advice.
nip that in the butt quickly.
i dunno if you're screwed, everyone makes mistakes.
that being said you're making the type of mistakes that people don't forget because they're not ability mistakes but rather personality mistakes, and that speaks to how much a person care (or that's what people would assume).
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