Hello --
I am wondering how you monkeys value the people you work directly with. I appreciate any feedback or personal work experiences.
I work for a large, multinational company that is primarily an 'occupier' of real estate. I am on the corporate real estate team. I have worked here for two years, fresh out of undergrad.
My team is a total of three guys, including myself. I am subordinate to both. I am also 4 decades younger than both of them. I value both of their experiences in real estate deal-making (primarily leases), however, I do not value personally what they have made of their careers and their current lifestyles.
One guy is particularly difficult to interact with. He is bitter, he is a "know it all", and a self-promoting shit talker.
Enough of my complaining...I am young, probably bitching, but curious if I am looking at these guys the wrong way. The way I see it is, I have no desire to become what these guys are. I have had great experiences learning from them the past two years and working for a dynamic company. But, is it time to jump ship if I do not value the people I work directly for, and will continue to be around?
Hi, hun. I am significantly older than you, entering same field in my 30’s. And although I do not have the experience of those seasoned in the industry, I would absolutely suggest looking for something that may be a better fit for you. I recently left who I started with, because this person was apparently threatened by me and trying to disempower me. Instead of helping me grow, like I know a ton of other people will. There’s better out there for you. I came from different industries, there will always be devils and gods within each industry. You want to work for somebody who you respect and admire, and I am certain that’s out there for you. So yes, Absolutely explore your options and don’t settle. Best of luck.
Sometimes you look up to your bosses. Sometimes you don't.
Either way, you can always learn from them, even if you're learning what not to do in the future when someone works for you.
You aren't just there to learn how to divide a NOI by a cap rate. You are there to learn as much as you can, holistically.
If you look at the guy above you and don't want his job then I'd take that as a sign to get out and onto something you are more interested in. I think over time you get more tolerant / indifferent to different types of people but you also get less tolerant to assholes at work.
I know this isn't how you meant it, but it worth repeating - the world and the people in it don't exist for your benefit. They have no obligation to provide value or opportunity to you and your career - sometimes the bitter older colleague is just that, and you have to accept that it has no bearing on your job performance. Expecting your colleagues to be accretive to your experience is.... not the right attitude. Not a bad one, and certainly if you aren't getting anything out of your job, then leave, but the reasoning shouldn't be "my colleagues aren't providing me with value anymore"
I'm going to disagree.
There is nothing wrong with taking a look up the chain and realizing that you don't want to be these guys someday because if you stick around, you probably will. The differenc between an immature and mature young professional is whether or not you can recognize both (i) that you don't want their job someday but also (ii) that there are certain things they DO know that you do not and therefor you should be learning as much about those things from them as you can.
Part of the value of your job is mentorship potential. If you're not working with suitable mentors then you should start looking elsewhere (while still keeping (ii) in mind).
I also disagree here - for every job I have accepted throughout my career (besides the first), the team and especially the boss/manager for the role was a MAJOR consideration, and the lens I viewed them through always considered this key question: is this a person that will encourage and support my growth or someone that only cares about their agenda? I've had both in my career and I learned from my first job what it's like having a boss that: 1) doesn't give a shit about you 2) will throw you under the bus whenever needed instead of accepting responsibility for his own mistakes and 3) will stifle your growth if it benefits them. My direct managers after that have always offered opportunities for me to step up, challenge myself and have guided me along the way. They did this because they wanted me to grow into more of their responsibilites (i.e. less work for them!), rather than be threatened by it and undermine me. Now that I just wrote that out, I literally picture that classic boss vs leader infographic - man it's fucking spot on. All other things equal, why should anyone want to be in a role under a boss vs. a leader? Don't shame the guy for wanting to be a part of a team that's less disfunctional and actually cares about the people in it - i've experienced both and never plan on going back to the dark side, even if it means better money. I put up with it when I had to in order to get to where I am today, as I'm sure many others here have, but from that point on I made a concsious effort to avoid those environments and that's what the OP is trying to do. I don't think that is a bad attitude - I think it's an attitude of someone that wants to continue succeeding and may be realizing that their potential in the current seat is reaching a peak, whether it's directly attributable to the boss or not. Also, when people geniunely like/value the their team they produce much better work so there's that too.
Not shaming anyone. But joining a team because you think they'll be good mentors is a different beast entirely than viewing others solely for their value to your career. That kind of attitude gets spotted a mile away. And the same as you wouldn't want to work for someone willing to throw you under the bus, people don't want to hire employees that they think are only viewing the job as a stepping stone, a towel to be wrung dry and then left on the bathroom floor.
And when the question is phrased "how do you value the people you work for," instead of something more along the lines of "how do you work alongside people who aren't interested in your professional development"... well, that gives the strong impression that the OP is far more concerned with extracting value from those colleagues for entirely selfish purposes, and not, as you say, for a mutually beneficial trade in which older employees mentor younger employees so that their lives get easier and their proteges gain valuable experience and insight.
The only thing I care about with the people I work with and/or boss, are whether they care about my career and recognize my goals and help me get there.
Of course I want people who are nice and not dicks, but at the end of the day, I don’t care if we aren’t buddy buddy and grab drinks once or week or whatever, as long as you help me get to where I want to be.
Good question.
What I would say is, first decide who you do want to be. But then my next step isn't what you probably guessed. Most would guess I'm about to say go work for the person you want to be. If that's available then great, but it rarely is.
Next step is to look at what unique abilities that person has, and how can you acquire those. I'm not talking general skills, I'm talking about the rare advantages that person has. Its very possible that your current job helps you develop those important abilities even if your bosses aren't who you want to be.
Example, I know a brilliant local turnaround investor who talks about the importance of just getting any kind of ops experience. He doesn't care where you get it, it doesn't have to be in the same industry that you're looking to turn around (he focuses on manufacturing). He seriously believes that a guy with a solid, but not great, investing skill set who's also managed a McDonald's for 2 years could be his partner in turning around manufacturing companies, while someone else who's been at the top PE or hedge fund (even covering industrials) with no direct ops experience is worthless to him. Importantly, the investor with ops experience is also rare, so its not just a requirement but also a major leg up.
Extreme example but you get the point. If I want to be like this turnaround guy, I need to find ops experience and develop a few other unique advantages that he has. I don't need to do it exactly how he did it or even follow a similar path as him. Its about collecting ingredients in no particular order.
Interesting take from him. From what I read on this forum (which admittedly is biased), this seems to be very nearly impossible to gain both experiences. It seems like you need IB to do PE (assuming you aren't a rarity, which I will leave out), and once you jump to PE you're going to stay as long as you can. It sounds like if you do not have PE experience before an MBA, you're more likely to scale Everest than get into a PE shop post MBA. Where does that leave room for operational experience? Just curious on your take.
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