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to be clear, the hierarchy varies by company depending on the size and industry. for argument's sake, im assuming a SFA -> Mgr -> Sr Mgr -> Director -> VP structure here. Most people stall out at Mgr or Sr Mgr. Breaching this point is a mix of many variables - competency, timing, politics, luck, willingness to take the lead on projects others don't. Examples - For those working in CF, it could be managing a integration project. For those in Corp Dev, it could be sourcing/closing a big deal. For those in Strat, it could be building out and executing a strategy to penetrate a new market or product. Usually you need one (or more) of these experiences + either somebody to leave or the company to have a hiring need for an additional VP due to business growth (both functions of timing/luck) + being aggressive/opportunistic and marketing yourself to the appropriate people for the promotion.
Making VP at a large company is product of four factors:
1) Performance
2) Tenure
3) Internal relationships
4) Luck
The first two are prerequisites and the last two are deciding factors. If you are known firmwide as a great performer that people trust and you have good C-Suite relationships you have a very good shot.
Also, don’t be a jerk. I know people who have mad finance chops but have been repeatedly passed over for executive roles because no one likes working with them.
One thing to note is the math of all of it. I did some digging into the spread of the finance people in my company (F200 A&D) and found the percentage breakout as follows:
62% are individual contributors (all levels of analysts) 31% are managers (some don't have any direct reports, but most do) 7% are directors 1% are VPs
So being better than 62% of the company isn't too hard. You have to have a lot of things go well to be in the top 7%, and getting to the top 1% is going to require the perfect storm.
Based solely on what I have seen in the 2 companies and 3 locations I have been at, this is what I have noticed about the average worker in each of the categories below:
Analysts/Sr. Analysts: This group is populated either by young people who are getting experience and are likely to rise, or by middle aged/old people who barely know how to use a computer and/or have some kind of attitude that makes them hard to work with. No smart, competent, likable people are going to get stuck as an analyst or sr. analyst forever.
Managers: This group is generally populated by the people who were likable and competent enough analysts. There are always exceptions, but I've found that managers don't have to have the best technical skills and don't have to be the most competent people, they just have to be likable and competent enough. I'd say that you can get to this group if you are decently self-aware, decently competent, and have enough experience. Being better in one area can make up for having less in another area (i.e., being more self-aware and competent can make up for less experience)
Directors: This is the group where the best people generally end up. You have to be very self-aware, very competent, and very experienced (either by quality or quantity of experience). There are a few other factors too, like your willingness to relocate to diversify your experience or to progress your career. If you are driven enough (don't wait too long for promotions, make sure you are always getting new experiences) and you are very self-aware and competent, you should get here.
VPs: Considering the fact that directors are already a group of top-performers, differentiating yourself to get to VP seems to be very difficult. It seems like the biggest factor for getting to this group is luck- a position opening up that happens to perfectly match your experience, someone taking a liking to you, some amazing opportunity opening up to differentiate yourself while you are a director. It seems like politics and luck play a much heavier role in getting to VP.
Incredibly difficult -we only have two VPs in the United States in corporate finance or around 1% of total headcount. The VP I report to has years of experience in pharma and equity research, and also went to Booth.
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agreed
pharma EVPS represent a fraction of 1%
I would add that the number of VP slots varies by size and structure of company. Assuming the CFO is the only SVP in finance the following could be VP spots for a large manufacturing company:
1) Corporate Controller/Chief Accounting Officer 2) CFO of each business unit 3) Head of manufacturing finance 4) Regional Finance heads (EMEA/APAC/NA etc..) 5) Treasurer 6) Global Head of FP&A 7) Head of sales finance 8) Head of pricing 9 Head of Corp Dev 10) Head of Finance for shared services/facilities/IT/Real Estate or some combination thereof
If the CFO was an EVP these could all be SVP slots and you would push VP down another level.
As you can see assuming five business units this company would have up to 16 VPs across all of accounting and finance. That could be viewed as a “maximum” since some of these roles such as Head of Pricing or sales finance, or CFO of a smaller business unit could be director roles instead of VP.
Not in this industry so take my comments with a grain of salt. Most people top out in a number of industries because they just get tired of climbing the ladder. You can continue moving up if you are willing to move, go to smaller or bigger shops, lateral for a bit and otherwise keep grinding.
What happens if you get a family, make good money and just get limited, either by your own desire or family restrictions and stay at the current employer and clip a coupon.
Real tough to uproot your wife and kids and unless you’re in a major metro, the number of places to hop to are going to be limited.
Want to flip everyone's thought process here for a second.
It is much much easier to make VP.....would you rather rise through the ranks working 60 to 80 hours per week to become MD or would you rather take it easy at 40 hours per week the corporate route.
Correct, your probability of becoming a corporate VP at a big company is low. However, lifestyle-wise, it is a much less difficult route. One of the things that's frustrating about banking especially at the jumping point to a higher rank is that you give up so much of your life to get there. So, if you don't get the promotion, you are physically and mentally destroyed.
In the corporate world, if you never make it to VP but collect a good paycheck and work a 40 hour week, there isn't much to complain about.
True. However, how many hours you work is highly dependent on Company culture. Plenty of companies where Directors and above are working well over a 40 hour week.
That said I know a couple of Corporate VPs at F1000s who probably work 50 during the work week (8-6:30/7 with an hour lunch) and a few hours during the weekend answering emails on average.
Pretty nice life considering what they are paid, but it’s usually a 20-30 year slog to get there.
Also many of the more successful corporate folks I know had a couple of years where they had terrible w/l balance because they were working on a merger integration, IPO, ERP implementation, division sale or restructuring etc.. Those experiences helped them get to where they are at but they were more demanding than your average corporate day to day.
All to say that while it is generally true that you work less hours in corporate than in banking, most people don’t coast at 40/week all the way to the C-suite.
You're right that the lifestyle in terms of hours is more difficult in banking. However, I'd argue that in terms of stability it's harder in large multinational F500s (I work at one). At any company with a substantial % of business outside the US, making VP is almost certainly going to require international relocation, most likely more than once. Most VPs at my company have worked in at least 2-3 countries by the time they make VP, with many having worked in 4-5. I would argue that when you have a family that kind of rootlessness is equally as challenging as 70-80 hour work weeks.
Former expat kid.. cam confirm rootlessness fucks with you big time. it's also incredibly rewarding, so there's that too.
How hard is it to making VP at an Investment Bank? (Originally Posted: 11/05/2016)
How hard is it to make VP at an Investment Bank. Buldge Bracket, Middle Market, Elite Boutique, and at a Small Boutique.
Would say if everything is right and you have the support the senior guys it's quite easy to make VP (unless shit hits the fan) at an IB but it becomes much more difficult to make MD as you need to start handling clients when VP.
But I don't understand why you would like to know that as a student already - it's a long path until there...
Think this is a very valid question when picking a career path. Far too many people think short term when selecting one.
As my mentor told me - your first job will impact what your last job is, it'll change who you marry, where you'll go to b school (if you go), where you'll settle down, if you'll have kids, etc; the butterfly effect is real.
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