How important is having mentors in S&T?
Rant incoming.
How important is having a supportive team in S&T in order to get better?
I feel like I get absolutely no support from my team when it comes to learning the ropes... they just expect me to know stuff. I see other analysts at other desks getting better and better and I just stagnate. And when I ask about how they got there, they often have that X person in their team who's been teaching them the ropes. I have nobody doing that.
And when I ask questions, often times I get no response or simply "not now". How am I supposed to learn and get better with a team that has zero interest in me? At least that is how it feels.
And I know a big part of the job is self study... but a lot of it isn't. I almost feel like I got catfished when I accepted the FT offer with this team. When I did the internship I had several traders who were really invested in me (it was a different team). And by that I mean they were always asking me technical questions, or giving me little projects that would push me to get better. And then we would sit down and discuss what I came up with, etc.
My team now is nothing like that. I probably learned more during my internship than I have the past 6+ months in my role. That's how shitty it has been.
Has anybody had a similar experience?
At this point i've basically made up my mind that i'll leave as soon as I get my end of year bonus. Whatever amount it may be. For context, this is a BB.
without telling us what bank....what desk are you on (this makes a difference)?
derivs trading in the index space
thats a toughy because it sounds pretty vanilla and i would expect anybody going into this would have a decent grasp of the basics. what are your pain points?
(i also didn't have a mentor on my 1st trading desk, but my 1st bank had a strong research group that was eager to talk to traders and willing to teach...and so i also did a lot of self learning)
You are expected to read and understand everything your research desk puts out...as well as historical pieces. Start with most recent, and then work your way backwards...looking up any terms & concepts that you don't understand. After 6 months to 1 year of doing this, you should have a good grasp of the basics plus a lot of nuance of the business. This should be common sense...your bank spent millions paying these research people to do this work...if you don't read it...that seems pretty arrogant.
I feel like I have a good understanding of the basics, it just becomes a lot more confusing when you go deeper.
For example, I feel like its one thing to read on your own about vol curves and vol surfaces but another to actually understand how to manage that risk. How to approach vol surface dynamics in day to day trading and risk managing. Also understanding how they look at/manage second order greeks, which are sometimes hard to explain in terms of pnl but are prevalent. At least for me as I've had no exposure other than through text books. Or understanding skew changes and the impact it ultimately has in your vega exposure/pl.
So that is something that I feel like one learns through speaking with more experienced traders and seeing what they look at/ how they think about it.
Can't tell you how many times i've approached analysts at other desks and they go: "Oh yea X person in my team walked me through it and gave me some reading material" etc. But I don't have any go-to person in my team. I've also had to interact with other teams at times and maybe there's something that I'm not seeing and they go like "yea but also consider looking at X, Y, Z" or "you need to consider W". and that always leads to an "Aha!" moment in my mind when I connect the dots. But all those moments come through interactions with other teams rather than my own. So naturally, it happens less often than it should, I believe.
Honestly, it could just be that I'm not a good fit for the role. So guess that's part of why I'm seeking advice here. How do you know if trading is simply not for you? and when do you cut your losses and jump ship/find a new role?
Edit: sorry for long ass comments. Just want to put out the complete picture.
no worries...its good to get the detail..and yes, practical aspects of trading, hedging a complex book,etc..
flow traders are disguised prop traders...not hedging right away is really taking a prop position...and prop trading is of course very hard.
Having a model for a vol surface and skew helps identify what the best hedge might be...but the best hedge = zero P&L...and traders are trying to maximize P&L so they are taking risks by waiting / not putting on the "best hedge". It indeed does take a long time (years) to learn all the aspects that go into prop trading...for example the market may be sensitive to Trump / fiscal deal headlines one day, and then ignore them the next as the market gets tired of the same headlines (just like how people get tired of their parents nagging them to do chores...all human life boils down to the same set of emotions).
So, while yes, i agree more mentorship would be ideal....somebody learned this stuff on their own....the first time it was created...and many others have also...trading requires an inquisitive mind and a degree of imagination. Suggest you continue seeking out mentorship...perhaps try to find better times during the day to talk to your senior traders...learn their habits and their moods....learn what they hope to achieve with your presence on their desk....expectation management is a big thing the 1st couple years.
If you need to goto a different desk to get the mentorship you need...do that. You are the only person who will advocate for you.
Very much appreciate the response. It helps a lot to get the perspective of those who've been through it.
+1
Agree with the prop trading in disguise. Something I hadn't really caught on until I started FT. "Managing risk"...
The book "Street Freak" is actually about a trader who joined Lehman Brothers on the index desk and became the head ETF trader. He did have a great mentor (who was later fired unfortunately). Also, interestingly enough, his friend in the associate class who was the star who landed on the one of the most "desirable" desks in FI had terrible seniors and he was later fired. Lots of really good stuff in the book even though it covers early 2000s to '08.
I just started as well but I feel that at a certain point you should be doing this rant to someone senior. Sometimes you might spend 10 hours self-studying what someone could explain to you in 5 minutes. This means you and the people not helping you are actually wasting the bank's money. If you frame it like that I'm sure traders will understand?
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