How is Charlotte?
Looking to get out of NYC (strictly COL reasons as I move to something better WLB). Wanted to know what you all think of Charlotte considering it’s a place that I’ve heard has been changing very quickly so past threads may not be updated?
I’m not sure on my other options yet but possibly considering Atlanta or Dallas or Tampa, so wanted to know more about Charlotte nightlife (I’m 24 and non-white if that matters?), lifestyle, places to live/be, trajectory of the city, and opportunities?
Curious to read your thoughts.
bump
NYC is so much better than Charlotte on many levels, just stay.
How so? I’m sick of working like a dog to have all that money go to rent and taxes.
You get what you pay for. All the rent and taxes go to the machine that is called NYC. It’s worth it.
you ever met somebody that thinks they're a big deal but then you find out they're somebody's assistant at a recruiting firm?
now picture that, but an entire city
in all seriousness, charlotte's got good food (not great like NYC/Chicago), booming economy, politically purple (not like NYC/Chicago), attractive women, but it's just not on the level of mega cities. I know plenty of people who live there (and maybe I do for all you know!) and love it, I know others who got disillusioned and miss the big city.
think of it as an alternative but not a replacement
haha nice
LOL! Sounds like Dallas
never lived there but my best friend does, this is his exact take. it thinks it's something it's not, and he hates how shallow everybody is
at least in miami you have shallow people AND culture, from what I can gather, dallas is lacking in the latter
This is a hilarious and mostly true description, albeit a bit harsh. I would boil Charlotte down to this. Great for families looking to settle down or young people who prefer a slower and more relaxed pace. Bad for young single people who are career driven or people who thrive on fast pace and all the amenities that a tier one city or even a step below have to offer.
I think by great for families you mean great for guys named Todd who are 38 year old millionaires working at BofA married to Brittany (32) who he met at south end for the Carolina Duke game and now they have 3 kids named chesley, brantley and rowley (so what if they're family names, they sound utterly retarded and lame), he also still slicks his hair back and has super short sides like it's 2016 or like he's a stunt double for Fury, has a bimmer coupe and brittany drives 2 SUVs, and he's oscillating between a soft addiction to strip clubs, opioids, and cocaine whereas brittany is more of a benzo girl who only comes out of her slumber to pick the kids up from dilworth day care, all in time for her to wake up at 40 and realize she hates the man she's with, gets a divorce, and you're the analyst on the other end getting comments at 2am because todd's a fucking dick and has nothing better to do than turn comments because brittany's alimony is based off his best year ever
and I disagree with the "bad for young people" comment. plenty of buddies I have in CLT clean up bigly. just don't expect to meet a 29 year old who just wants to fuck for a few months and then move on, you may have to have some terrible conversation with 23 year olds
Lol don't move to ATL. That place sucks outside of having the Braves.
Could you elaborate further? Ty
I live in Atlanta and love it. We’re getting a new mayor in the fall. Hopefully that will help with the crime. Crime has been terrible in most big cities this year. Look at NYC, CHI, or SF.
it's pretty "diverse"
People I know who are from Charlotte love it, people who moved there from elsewhere tend to be pretty lukewarm. It’s a decent sized city (wouldn’t call it big) with a alright young professional scene, but personally I think it pales vs Dallas or Atlanta. Lots of young families as well if that’s what you’re looking for
I don’t know much about Tampa, a friend moved to Dallas after 3 or 4 years there and said they were incredibly bored after the first 18 months or so - always said the beaches were incredible, but that there was comparatively little to do even vs other smaller cities (apparently lots of breweries that were only ok). Cheapest cost of living on your list though
Atlanta’s fun, traffic is a nightmare, probably the best food scene on your list (roughly par with Dallas, but the difference is Dallas’s ethnic enclaves are very spread out, so you need to drive for a while to get to most of them. Both are comfortably ahead of Charlotte). Both ATL and CLT are prettier than Dallas, though I think Dallas has the best young professional scene. DFW isn’t as humid either.
Both ATL and Dallas can be pretty insular if you don’t know people, but this is changing a bit as more transplants move to town. Don’t be surprised if most people you meet are married by 27 or so, with a sizable minority engaged by the time they leave school. Culturally, lean Atlanta if you grew up in or went to school in the south, otherwise Dallas will be a little more palatable.
I’m biased, but Dallas and Atlanta are both fine alternatives if you want to be in a somewhat major city that’s not as expensive as the large coastal hubs - they’re a step or two below NYC or LA, sure, but are solid in their own rights
Really appreciate the write up. If it helps, I’m originally from the northeast and went to school in the northeast so never went to the south before. This is why I originally mentioned Charlotte first given it’s the least physically distant and I assumed there would be more transplants and young professionals than elsewhere (my guess here could be wrong). I’m also single and not really looking to settle down or anything. I don’t know anyone in either of the places mentioned also. Does this change anything?
Where are you from? All the cities you mentioned are more "regional" compared to NYC. If you have ties to any of them, bump them up the list. You probably take for granted how easy it is to meet people in NYC. Yes, it's still hard. But it's a hell of a lot easier than Atlanta... unless you went to an SEC / southern ACC school / are from the area / etc.
I'm from Atlanta, and I will say it has its cool spots. But the RE scene is the ultimate white, southern, bro culture. Not sure what the rest of the ATL finance world is like.
Go to Miami, Austin, San Diego, Nashville. Smaller, more laid back cities with more transplants
From NY originally went to school in the northeast and no ties to the places those are just where I’ve found solid roles and am in the process for interviews. Originally had Charlotte at top of my mind since it was the least physically distant and I figured there would be more young professional transplants. I like Miami a lot as well but am have a bit of difficulty finding the right roles there. Not a ton of finance honestly. As to your Atlanta point, no I certainly don’t fall into the type of person you described but I figured the city is a more diverse than that, but I will defer to you considering I have no insight into any of these places.
The city is more diverse than that for sure. But the RE finance scene is not diverse. Prob not relevant for your industry but thought I’d mention it anyway.
Despite being from atlanta, im not the best person to talk to because I wasn’t a transplant, I lived at my parents place in the suburbs, hung out with high school friends etc. Transplant experience is probably very different.
I’ve lived in NYC, Charlotte and Atlanta. Would 100% say NYC is the hands down the best in terms of social life and food. Overall, while I enjoyed Charlotte it was a little slow for my taste and found it to be a great places to live in your 30s and 40s (settled down with a family etc.) but not so much in your 20s. Atlanta is a good mix of affordability and activities/social scene (though nowhere near NYC). So if you are looking for a change of scenery would recommend Atlanta. Miami is another great city that may have what you are looking for.
I recommend taking a look at Chicago as well - if cost is the reason to leave, Chicago’s going to be the most comparable city to NYC at a fraction of the price. It’s not Sun Belt cheap, sure, but it also has the biggest finance scene of any of the cities discussed here
Chicago winters are miserable.
I agree completely - that’s why I don’t live there (unfortunately for me Dallas summers are miserable). Pros and cons everywhere
i'd go dallas < atl < charlotte < tampa
on a related note, what are WSO's thoughts on DC? i moved here expecting the NYC life and have been sorely disappointed in that regard, but happy in every other way
DC is sick - walkable urban city with a much more European vibe than NYC, tons of nearby green space and hiking, excellent restaurant scene (not NYC, but probably top 5 in the US). Comfortable weather with all 4 seasons, beautiful in spring and fall, easy winter with occasional snow, maybe a little humid in summer but very manageable. Great young population, and one of the few cities that’s awesome to live in at any age (20s in the city, 30s in Arlington or Georgetown, family life in Great Falls or Bethesda). Quick Amtrak to the rest of the East Coast as well. You also meet tons of interesting people - the same way that the guy next to you in a NYC bar might be an F500 exec or hedge fund manager, the girl in the park in DC might be a foreign emissary or a CIA engineer.
Of course, there are cons as well: It’s still ungodly expensive, and it has some of the worst traffic in the country, but unlike NYC or Chicago the DC Metro isn’t really a comprehensive option (still beats out most of the country though). Politics can permeate life - you may not run across many hill workers and lobbyists depending on your crowd and neighborhood, but you’ll still run into protests and road closures regularly. Long-term friends can be a bit tough since it tends to be a more transient demographic. Speaking of which, the homeless population has gotten a lot worse since COVID (which is true everywhere, but it seems more pronounced there than NYC or here in TX).
Altogether, it’s a personal favorite, but it’s certainly not NYC, or Charlotte for that matter - a city of Northern charm and Southern efficiency, as they say
I would move back to DC in a heartbeat. Everything you mentioned is 100% true, but I would say if you are living anywhere along the Wilson/Clarendon corridor in NOVA or downtown DC you can get around to like 90% of what you need with metro/walking/biking/scooters.
Other pros:
- It's got a great food scene, one of the five American cities that has a Michelin guide.
- Most of the sports are walkable/metro-able and even if the Capitals suck it's still great being able to see a game without driving for an hour and walking another 30 after parking.
- World class museums and arts scene. Lots of live music, theater, and the film scene is pretty good for not being LA/NY.
-Access, Reagan is super close and has lots of flights and Dulles isn't that bad to get to. Also have Amtrak as mentioned.
- More of a real estate thing haha, but I can't help it. The city has some great history and historic neighborhoods. I absolutely love just walking around Georgetown looking at the little shops and townhomes. That is easily a dream location to own a home, some of those townhomes are deceptively large.
Cons:
- All the fucking tourists standing on the left on the escalators.
- Summers are more than mildly humid.
- Taxation without representation. Congress can fuck your shit up at any moment if they wanted to.
speak for yourself, it's swampy as fuck May or earlier until late September. Agreed on the other points, nice place overall.
Super agree on the transient demographic issue, so many of my friends have left.
Also, you get official government license plates that say taxation without representation, which is incredible - I almost want to claim residency just for that
Ironic, cause they don't get senators or representatives
I just moved from DC and can attest to everything above. I loved it there and potentially want to move back, but want to get another city experience for now. There are a bunch of interesting people there, but no lie you will find more attractive women in other cities imo
a friend and I were talking about this very issue and we couldn't figure out why that was, considering there's a good amount of colleges around and people come from all over the country, but then again, there's a reason it's sometimes called "Hollywood for ugly people."
NYC is highly superior to DC.
If you’re strictly looking to leave nyc for col, depending on what you like about New York, might want to throw Minneapolis into the mix.
Minneapolis is close to voting their police department out...
I lived in Charlotte for two years after school and live in a tier 1 city now. To sum things up, I often miss the cheap rent, simpler life, and hotter girls. Emphasis on the last point… was scoring chicks way beyond my capabilities in charlotte and now I’m scrapping to get dates with 6s.
In all seriousness, Charlotte is a fine place to be if you can handle the homogenous and bland lifestyle. Even if you hate it there, you’ll be saving so much money you can afford to leave every weekend / go in absurd vacations
Sounds like you moved to SF? I promise you women in LA / NY are more attractive than Charlotte
I’m in LA. Girls are hot here but the attractiveness to humility ratio is awful compared to anywhere in the US.
I've never liked Charlotte... For me, it's just a massive surburb with bad traffic that never ends and doesn't really have a culture. I'm sure, like most cities, it's become gentrified and there are lots of breweries and all that.
Atlanta and Dallas are much larger, offer a lot more nightlife, restaurant and culture and still have reasonable costs of living, albeit more expensive than Charlotte. If you're black, Atlanta is definitely a major black culture hub (if you're into that).
Re Tampa, I wouldn't come here. Have been here since '93. It's getting better but still not much here compared to real cities (Boston, SF, Chicago, NY). If you head south, I'd look at Miami. more expensive than Charlotte or Tampa but not as expensive as NY. Lot going on. Lot of culture if you like the Latin vibe. Sometimes it feels like a different country between the Cubans and the Haitians. Great food, cigars, nightclubs, weather, women,etc.
Tampa was great until the rent frenzy. Now its like +2300 for a 1x1 anywhere desirable which just about washes away the col appeal. Region is still growing pretty fast (just as every other city in the South is). Other big downside is you need a car to go anywhere bc there's no transit system at all.
Shite, imo
If you’re looking to move to CLT then finance isn’t your #1 priority. Lots of great bars but the club scene is nothing compared to what NYC is. It’s just much more laid back and more conservative culture then NYC for sure but if you’re relatively young then NYC blows CLT out of the water socially by a billion. If you’re in a front office role then you’ll most likely be living in Southend or Uptown. Great spots and fun bars but again pales in comparison to up north. A lot of my college buddies graduated and live in CLT. They seem happy but I’m from the south. I’m biased as I spent a summer in nyc but man if you’re guy who likes to live full throttle then CLT is not where you want to be. Biggest banks are WF and Truist if that tells you anything about opportunity.
Did you look this up by employee count? Truist only has a small IB office there. There are also a ton of other banks in CLT such as Jefferies, William Blair, Piper Jaffray, Lazard MM, BAML lev fin, and Citizens (I might be missing some). CLT is no NYC but to say there are no opportunities there is ridiculous.
WF and Truist have the biggest presence in CLT. Don't know much about those other banks as all the guys I know aren't doing IB in Charlotte. Truist is in the process of making Charlotte its headquarters so opportunities will be plentiful but their IB operation is in Atlanta. Also I've read that BAML LevFin is a nightmare. Sure there is opportunities for those other banks you listed but none are HQ'd in Charlotte so take that for what you will. If we're listing those banks then I would def look at Harris Williams in Richmond. COL would give you a bang for your buck and you still get a southern experience.
Bump
Charlotte sucks unless looking to settle with family (in which case it's top-tier). If you have a desire to move there, just go to Atlanta which is what Charlotte is a shadow of
Not much more to add here
Damn as a new analyst out of school you all making me feel like shit for coming to CLT fml did I mess up?
What were the other options?
Also, worth noting these things depend a lot on your own personality.
I had lots of options because of different offers NYC, SF, CHI, etc (not to brag really just answering the question). I opted to save money though because I want to pay down student debt and invest early on but now I may regret that having my youth in CLT
I don’t disagree that food and nightlife is substantially better in NYC or even a city like Dallas, but I feel like some in this thread are over-indexing to just a few items. It also seems as if many in this thread appear to believe you can only meet attractive girls at a NYC club.
While entirely my personal opinion, there are reasons Charlotte will always appeal to me vs. a place like NYC.
- Lower cost of living (+ much more space)
- Abundant outdoor activities - lake, golf, hiking, breweries, etc.
- ~3 hours to the beach and mountains
- Major airport hub allows for cost efficient domestic and international travel (combined with COL point, could do a round trip to the Caribbean or Europe 1-2x a month and still pay less in total living/entertainment expenses than NYC)
- More attractive women
- In general, people hold a greater focus on WLB (and are therefore more well rounded and interesting overall)
I don’t see how anyone who values being outdoors would choose NYC (although other cities mentioned on this thread could be a fit). I make the same (if not more) than others in IB, but get to keep more of it. Figure out what’s most important to you, and diligence the cities accordingly. Best of luck!
Thanks for typing this not sure if you saw my comments right above you but would you say the same thing if you were a young single guy out of school? Not to hijack OP's post but feel like I made the wrong decision now with everyone saying how shit CLT apparently is for someone early 20s and not looking to settle down at all like me
People act like unless you live in NYC then there is nothing to do except sit at home and read books on the weekends. It’s ridiculous to see how much living in NYC goes to someone’s head. CLT is a top 15 populated city with tons to do and growing super fast. You will be making more money than your IB peers who are living in NYC after expenses, and there are plenty of Finance opportunities in the city. What you should really be worried about or asking yourself is if you enjoy your work/coworkers and the culture at your firm. If you are happy then why does it matter where you live? Don’t let other people decide what’s best for you.
Yes, I moved to Charlotte out of college and had a great time. Responding to the “cons” of Charlotte above, I had no shortage of fun nights out or attractive girls to pursue. Found friends with lakehouse or boat, went out to fun bars / breweries, played golf/basketball/flag football, etc. I can’t say you’ll enjoy it as much as I did, but I do take issue with people framing Charlotte as boring or inhibitive to your career. I had a blast and have had no shortage of financially compelling opportunities, and I’ve saved >$1MM and I’m under 30 (and I didn’t multiply my $ via crypto or anything, it’s just savings and compounding investment $).
I would be miserable in NYC, but others in this thread would be miserable in Charlotte. It’s as simple as what makes you happy - there’s no one-size-fits-all answer.
If you like partying, constantly warm weather and hot girls just move to Miami and thank me later. I left NY to live there for a couple months this year and wish I was still there.
Miami is definitely #1 for me no doubt, but where tf do you all find solid roles there? Like very limited relatively in terms of Corp Dev, AM, FP&A type roles
Yeah idk bro. It's definitely a remote worker haven though.
Know plenty of folks who live in Charlotte and love it. Common denominator is their lack of overall experience / exposure to other things. Tend to grow up in the south and think Charlotte / ATL is the big city. It's nothing like NY/ Chi/SF/Boston/ DC, etc. Totally different lifestyle. not good or bad, just different. I've lived in NY, DC. SF. Boston ad Tampa. People around here think Tampa is the bomb. It's OK. But there's nothing to do relative to the big cities. Very little culture. One of everything instead of 1000 of everything.
Still don't get why the Rays (one of the best teams in baseball) can't draw more than 12k-16k to their games unless they paly NY or Boston and then they are outnumbered by the visiting teams fans. Just not a lot of umph down here!
Could you describe more on the lifestyle difference you mean if possible?
It's not exciting. It's getting better as they try to make downtown more of a destination but it's very disjointed. City still shuts down at 7 pm. There are a few areas where the young folks congregate and that's better than it used to be but none of it's killer.
Good place to raise a family. Outdoor lifestyle if you like golf / tennis, boating, etc. That part is fine. Not a lot of theater. We've been members of the performing arts center for 25 yrs. Have seen many shows but it's not Broadway or anything close. Some good restaurants but you need to find them.
To be fair the Bucs and Lightning sell out.
So the Bucs are good now thanks to the GOAT. They are actually the most losing franchise in the history of sports. And yes they sell out now but there have been many yrs where it was bad, even local TV was blacked out because there weren't enough fans in the stadium. The Bolts are awesome and they have marketed themselves well.
Overall there is a lack of passion (northeast passion) down here and a false sense of superiority (We're Title Town, This company is the biggest X on the east coast - really - until recently you were suck town and , uh, no, not even close re the company or the wealthiest guy or the whatever.
Which of these was your favorite? Don't want to turn this into a ranking thread, and I know that SF v Chi v NY has been discussed a ton on this forum, but would love to hear your perspective as I've had a similar experience (growing up in the south and friends moving to houston/atl thinking it's great).
I prefer Boston. Big city but not too big. Love the whole history vibe. Great museums, theater, sports, food, festivals, etc. NYC is bigger and has way more of everything but it's too big for me. SF is beautiful. If not for the people, I would probably rank it #1. The people are wacked plane and simple. So open minded they're the most close minded I've ever met. God forbid you don't agree with them. Hard to even talk to family out there.
But all of these have a ton of things to do every week. You could also get in a car a nd drive a few hours and see sheer beauty in the mountains, beaches, farmland, hiking trails, etc. Not much to look at in FL. Gulf is nice but it's also just flat - no cliffs or sand dunes or hills. Give me a golf course carved out of the woods any day over palm trees and ponds and flat nothing.
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