The people I've met from there (more like I knew them in college) are smart people that seem to be doing well for themselves. From what I understand, they have some fairly successful people working there from other firms as well (ie GETCO). I'm not involved in the type of trading they do, but from people that are actually involved in trading, there have been mostly positive things said.

 
Jerome Marrow:
The people I've met from there (more like I knew them in college) are smart people that seem to be doing well for themselves. From what I understand, they have some fairly successful people working there from other firms as well (ie GETCO). I'm not involved in the type of trading they do, but from people that are actually involved in trading, there have been mostly positive things said.

I'm surprised that people would leave GETCO for chopper. They seem like a decent firm.

 
Brady4MVP:
Jerome Marrow:
The people I've met from there (more like I knew them in college) are smart people that seem to be doing well for themselves. From what I understand, they have some fairly successful people working there from other firms as well (ie GETCO). I'm not involved in the type of trading they do, but from people that are actually involved in trading, there have been mostly positive things said.

I'm surprised that people would leave GETCO for chopper. They seem like a decent firm.

What do you even do? Are you actually involved in trading at all or do you make baseless assumptions off of random conjecture on this forum?

Perhaps somebody is offered a compensation package they like better, less control over their trading, more BO support, or any other number of things. The whole idea about focusing on the individual firm is pretty much out of the window when you're past the clerking/TA phase because profitable individuals at all of these shops can and often do leave for others for arrangements they find more beneficial.

 
happybo7:
Is it easy to find a job in New York after a stint with Chopper in Chicago? How do we rate Chopper given DE Shaw is first tier? Is it more like third tier?

Also any comment on Chopper vs. Worldquant? Research(with trading potential at chopper) vs. PM at worldquant. Any favor one or the other? Thx.

I know a guy who went from chopper to fixed income trading at credit suisse in NYC. They are a decent shop but definitely not first tier.

Worldquant is a VERY good place. It got spun off from millennium partners, the multi-billion dollar hedge fund in NYC. Their office is in greenwich, headed by a brilliant guy named Igor Tulchinsky. They employ a lot of really smart quants and programmers. If it's betwen chopper and worldquant, it should be an easy choice.

 
happybo7:
Is it easy to find a job in New York after a stint with Chopper in Chicago? How do we rate Chopper given DE Shaw is first tier? Is it more like third tier?

Also any comment on Chopper vs. Worldquant? Research(with trading potential at chopper) vs. PM at worldquant. Any favor one or the other? Thx.

They don't do the same things. Frankly, questions like this just don't even make sense to me. If this is what you're worried about, you probably aren't going to be as successful as others anyway.

 
Jerome Marrow:
happybo7:
Is it easy to find a job in New York after a stint with Chopper in Chicago? How do we rate Chopper given DE Shaw is first tier? Is it more like third tier?

Also any comment on Chopper vs. Worldquant? Research(with trading potential at chopper) vs. PM at worldquant. Any favor one or the other? Thx.

They don't do the same things. Frankly, questions like this just don't even make sense to me. If this is what you're worried about, you probably aren't going to be as successful as others anyway.

hahahaha this is awesome

 

I'm pointing out if somebody is concerned with their ability to move to NYC after a 'stint' with one firm in Chicago, they probably do not have their priorities in order to be a successful trader. Just my opinion.

 

WorldQuant is a hedge fund. Chopper is a prop shop (i.e. a real prop shop, not some arcade). Yes, they both rely to a significant extent on automation, but prop trading is pretty different from quantitative portfolio management. Do what you like better and expect to be more successful in.

More broadly, the discussion of "tiers" is misguided. Your prestige is your PnL. Firms in this industry rise and fall by the quality of their business decisions and the talent of the people who comprise them. There have been some fairly ridiculous upsets during the past two years alone.

Anyway, at most top prop firms it's largely at the group level. Asking 'who runs algo?' is just as misguided as asking what tier a firm is in. Or, for that matter, making a decision based on something as trivial as a name. It's about the people, the tech, and the opportunity set. Jerome is right.

 
Best Response
overclocked:
WorldQuant is a hedge fund. Chopper is a prop shop (i.e. a real prop shop, not some arcade). Yes, they both rely to a significant extent on automation, but prop trading is pretty different from quantitative portfolio management. Do what you like better and expect to be more successful in.

More broadly, the discussion of "tiers" is misguided. Your prestige is your PnL. Firms in this industry rise and fall by the quality of their business decisions and the talent of the people who comprise them. There have been some fairly ridiculous upsets during the past two years alone.

Anyway, at most top prop firms it's largely at the group level. Asking 'who runs algo?' is just as misguided as asking what tier a firm is in. Or, for that matter, making a decision based on something as trivial as a name. It's about the people, the tech, and the opportunity set. Jerome is right.

this.

And so it goes
 

Any idea what the 1st year comp tends to be before profit share of your P/L? Also, night trading isn't necessarily a bad thing if you are trading FX.

But anyway, why specifically do you say it is not a good place to work?

Any insight appreciated!!!

 

Night trading in general sucks because you are working at night... that's not exactly ideal for a life.

Jack: They’re all former investment bankers who were laid off from that economic crisis that Nancy Pelosi caused. They have zero real world skills, but God they work hard. -30 Rock
 
Revsly:
Night trading in general sucks because you are working at night... that's not exactly ideal for a life.

Sure, trading at night isnt ideal, however, nobody has said anything about what this shop is like in terms of culture, opportunity, PL %, base salary (if any), products they let you trade, starting capital, etc...

If the only drawback is trading at night then who cares? Clearly if you demonstrate the ability to make $$$ they would then let you trade whenever, right? Perhaps they want you to at first trade at night to avoid some volatility. But since we don't know it would be helpful to hear some actual INSIGHT.

 

The best shops start you off a night to learn because its less volatile..so its completely possible that you work at night while your training.. which is a bright idea...the other side to that is you work during the day doing ops and following people around for a few years before you even put your hand on the keyboard..... id take night trading to learn over being an ops guy for 2 years anyday...

but i never heard of your firm in particular.. i know it doesnt mean anything.. but the name of them soudns bad.. getting chopped up :

 

they are a fixed income prop shop.

the name is derived from the name of the owner's dog. no joke. when i heard this i was like... ok, dont do it.

but generally as a night trader you're watching the fixed income portfolio over the night to prevent any large movements from foreign movements. so you're kinda like a night-trader-assistant.

 

Zalfor

Thanks for the info. Any idea if they do much FX? The most volatility for Europe starts at 3am CST and goes until 11am CST. That might not be bad to be up at that time to catch some of the early moves from European economic releases...

Thoughts?

 

i honestly don't know too much more than what my friend did when he was there.

sorry can't help you with the other questions. i just know that they do rates trading. FX goes with rates, so probably, but that's just me making a random guess.

the good is that you do get a base salary (somewhat respectable too)

the bad is that you're working at night. =(

the ugly is that the name is derived from the owner's dog. =|

 

Night trading > ops > walmart > Unemployed. Stop being picky people get your foot in the door first. A lot of people I know have done night shift trading for periods of time its part of paying your dues.

"Oh the ladies ever tell you that you look like a fucking optical illusion" - Frank Slaughtery 25th Hour.
 

I know a guy that's been there for a few years and seems to like it. Yeah, he started at night. So what? You're low man on the totem pole when you first start. Management seems pretty cool - even picked up my bar tab a few times.

 

I heard Chopper Trading is a great place to work. You do start off at nights but after a year or so you go to days - a small price to pay for the money you can make after the year is over. I also heard Chopper Trading has a super cool office space with a big game room and a work out facility.

 

I'm pretty confident that Ann works for Chopper Trading.

I interviewed there back in 2006, and they were the most unprofessional firm I've ever dealt with. The recruiter (she's now a VP there) was totally absent minded, did not return phone calls or e-mails, and was just terrible to deal with. The interview was a joke. The CEO of the firm (he's Indian descent, forgot his name), upon learning that I played a lot of poker, challenged me to a heads-up match in the middle of the interview. I beat him soundly.

They never got back to me, and i pursued other opportunities.

 

Takes a very long time to hear back from HR. Nights suck but if you really want to be a trader you live for this sh$*! You think Paul Tutor Jones would have made a dumb comment like that in his 20's? Anyone in the business is here for one reason. To make money!!! So if you are worried about the hours go be an analyst for some insurance company!

 

Alright, sounds about right. That's basically what I was trying to ascertain. It snuck up on me quite quickly, I had just heard that this was going to happen yesterday.

Currently just trying to maintain my normal level of current events knowledge and formulate some ideas.

"When you stop striving for perfection, you might as well be dead."
 

Just wanted to update this in case anyone wants to know...

Phone interview was pretty standard, just spoke about my current work experience to this point, why I'm interested in trading, whether or not I've done any trading, short conversation about what I studied in school, other stuff that goes along with those topics.

Also spoke about the training program, how it works, and I asked some questions about that. Nothing too crazy, really just a way to get a feel for who I am I guess.

"When you stop striving for perfection, you might as well be dead."
 

All of the above; several different units/groups. Expanding pretty quickly atm.

Developers are not traders, so obviously their work is different, but a friend who interned as a dev there this summer enjoyed it and built some pretty interesting things. They also seem to pay quite well for talent, esp. on the infra side. Currently the company is placing a lot of emphasis on recruiting more engineers.

 

Are you seriously asking whether you should take an offer in a field you want to go into or one that is very unlikely to lead you there? Accept Chopper. You can always work for Bloomberg later if trading doesn't work out for you -- at least, it would be easier to do that than the reverse.

 

look, you're either

1) going to work at a place in the industry you want to be in

or

2) going to work at a desk job not in the industry you want to be in.

regardless of how good or bad chopper is, the decision is clear.

besides, chopper isn't that bad, they pay you a base salary, offer bonuses and give you some sort of training.

 

They're a respectable shop. Not the top-tier but definitely not awful; they will pay you a decent base, provide some training, and give an annual discretionary bonus.

The owner is an ultra-liberal who has a huge chip on his shoulders because he did not go to an elite college.

 

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