Government (DOD) Work Experience

Hi All. I have been reading WSO for several months now and this is my first post... so go easy on me.

I plan on applying to B-school in the fall, and have a question about how civil service jobs are generally viewed in the eyes of admissions committees? In particular, working for the Department of Defense in a certain 5-sided building in Washington, DC.

I have heard that both UVA and UNC are very supportive of military... while I am not active duty, I have been told that they would still look favorably on DoD civil service experience.

My work is primarily focused on acquisition strategy and business development efforts for various directorates of the Office of the Secretary of Defense. I have negotiated/managed a portfolio of approximately $200m in business deals over the last 5 years, and have been promoted several times. I am targeting schools in the 10-20 range (and Georgetown), with hopes of moving into management consulting after business school in the NC/VA/DC area... not necessarily with a federal focus.

Appreciate any feedback!

 

I am just a college senior, but your work sounds interesting and IMO you will definitely get into a 10-20 school, and with some legwork on your application and GMAT, a 4-10.

 

I'm a college senior going into management consulting. If I were a managing director at a consulting firm and your application (former DoD employee from the pentagon) came across my desk, my eyes would light up with dollar signs based on the government project you could bring in especially from the DoD. Granted, $200m is probably a drop in the bucket at the DoD but still is impressive and further indicates you know people that can get us DoD projects and probably have colleagues in other departments in the federal government (more bookings for us). Therefore, I would try very hard to keep you in federal work so you can milk your former colleagues for projects. So you may end up on just federal projects. Just a thought.

 

In can be done. I can think of two former GS guys in my class but I have no idea how many apply or what the competition is like. The one thing you need to focus on is showing that you were action orientated. Unfortunately your office (in the general sense) is not known for being efficient or particularly productive. So you may have to overcome some negative stereotypes about unionized government workers and the general inefficiencies in the government. But if you frame your application to talk about the amazing things you did despite all those forces working against you I think you could have a great story. And moving into consulting is a pretty standard path and one that would make sense with your background so I don't think anybody would be concerned about the feasibility of your goals.

 
Best Response

Sorry this post hasn't received more attention from people who have made the switch. I worked in DC, not in the federal govt, but on the Hill and for a trade association before going to Harvard Business School, and I didn't have half the experience you do in strategy and biz dev. So the DC to MBA route is for real! (got in everywhere else, including Stanford too, so it wasn't just Harvard)

In my role as an admissions consultant, I've seen candidates with government backgrounds, and like any large entity, some organizations offer more opportunities for leadership than others. So if you've been able to influence others around you, then I would imagine admissions types would take you very seriously. Your specialized knowledge would be very interesting to future employers like Palantir (oh wait, don't they hate MBAs?) or other consulting firms, with or without government practices.

Unless you are required to stay local, I think it would be REALLY interesting for you and for your potential classmates to look beyond the ACC belt. You don't need to look at schools who are supportive of the military -- that really isn't what they will see in you. The military candidates have vastly different training, and that's the appeal, not the subject matter. Your negotiating skills and ability to navigate complex bureaucracies are the characteristics that jump out, no matter who you work for.

Betsy Massar Come see me at my Q&A thread http://www.wallstreetoasis.com/forums/b-school-qa-w-betsy-massar-of-master-admissions Ask away!
 

Thanks for the responses krypton, brooj14, and MilitaryToFinance!

Good to hear Betsy... applying to b-school is a daunting task, and going back to school full time isn't the norm in the Government, so I am trying to figure a lot of it out on my own, and through my own contacts. I feel like I would have a lot to offer to a class, bringing different perspectives from students coming from well run organizations haha!

 
Mo Money:

Hi All. I have been reading WSO for several months now and this is my first post... so go easy on me.

I plan on applying to B-school in the fall, and have a question about how civil service jobs are generally viewed in the eyes of admissions committees? In particular, working for the Department of Defense in a certain 5-sided building in Washington, DC.

I have heard that both UVA and UNC are very supportive of military... while I am not active duty, I have been told that they would still look favorably on DoD civil service experience.

My work is primarily focused on acquisition strategy and business development efforts for various directorates of the Office of the Secretary of Defense. I have negotiated/managed a portfolio of approximately $200m in business deals over the last 5 years, and have been promoted several times. I am targeting schools in the 10-20 range (and Georgetown), with hopes of moving into management consulting after business school in the NC/VA/DC area... not necessarily with a federal focus.

Appreciate any feedback!

Sent you a PM, happy to help.

 

As a fellow DC guy, I know a few government people that have gone on to b-school, as well as a large number of federal consultants. I partially fit into the latter camp as well. I think the inefficient government to efficient business leader is a pretty smooth story to tell, so long as you can show how you overcame the inefficiency to make things happen.

Feel free to PM me for details.

 

does anyone know about similar stories for EU MBA? currently thinking of leaving audit (2 years early, part qualified) to take a lower paid, starter role as an intelligence analyst/officer (risk taker! hah) at a national ( "federal") organised crime fighting agency (reputation wise, in our country its not cia/fbi/nsa equivalent level...but something maybe like DEA/ICE/ATF) and hopefully stay there for 6-10 years before doing MBA at ideally LSB/INSEAD/Oxbridge and subsequently moving to a place like Control Risks Group / Risk Advisory Group / Kroll etc (basically security-risk management/investigations consultancy). hopefully along the way, get a PT masters in computer security & another one in counter terrorism etc at top target as well as getting some secondments into an operational group (as well as maybe see some action through military reserves duty at same time).sometime down the line, would hope to use contacts from both stints to start own firm.

not worried about the drop in salary, however mostly worried about notoriously slow career / title progressions in public sector...although having worked with public sector clients (mostly hospitals / local government), it seems it might be quite easy to stand out as an organiser/hard worker

im aware that LSB only has like 7percent public sector intake...not sure if thats because theyre weak candidates or not interested...

rest of profile: top target with okay degree (~3.5-3.7 gpa equiv), half a minority (not the major ones & not sure if it matters in EU countries), have a good charity idea ive been wanting to organise for a while (stupid busy seasons), think can get 700-720 on GMAT.

thanks for any replies

 

I can only speak from European experience, but in that context a civil service background can actually be a real advantage. You can get a lot of responsibility early on and play key leadership roles.

The big advantage for the schools is that they are desperately trying to achieve balanced classes. They dont just want bankers and consultants in their MBA classes so that gives you a real advantage.

A number of my colleagues have applied and got straight in to schools such as INSEAD and London Business School with an added bonus of reduced fees or scholarships due to being public servants.

Good Luck!

 
CivilServant:

I can only speak from European experience, but in that context a civil service background can actually be a real advantage. You can get a lot of responsibility early on and play key leadership roles.

The big advantage for the schools is that they are desperately trying to achieve balanced classes. They dont just want bankers and consultants in their MBA classes so that gives you a real advantage.

A number of my colleagues have applied and got straight in to schools such as INSEAD and London Business School with an added bonus of reduced fees or scholarships due to being public servants.

Good Luck!

thank you very much for your post. really encouraging to hear. i spent ages trying to random google search linkedin profiles of people with similar mba profiles as the one im hoping to build but didnt really find many...so was a bit discouraging at first.

 

I think it all depends on your situation. A good friend of mine is doing a part time MBA at Warwick Business School and is getting fully funded for it. As with all things its about negotiation. If you enquire about it up front there can be a lot more flexability.

Sabaticals to study are generally seen in a very positive way in my experience (for example going off to do a masters is incredibly common), so you shouldnt have any problems on that front.

 

Let's face it your question is too broad. "Wall Street" is not one amalgamated blob of homogeneous roles but a collection of highly diversified activities. (Refer to www.gs.com). As such, the question "is gov exp regarded well on the Street" (or whatever) should morph into something more refined like "will my experience in this specific group of the government--for example because we regulate financial market activity--serve me well to pursue my dream to be the very best compliance guy at Goldman" -- now we are starting to make sense. So the question back to you is--what role in the government and for what job on "Wall Street"?

aisixerdude03:
Examples encouraged!
Regulation is rampant in various industries and if you invest in regulated industries, investment due diligence will likely include conversations with regulators. Therefore a background in regulation in banking and utilities, for example, may serve someone well for potential entry into very very junior sellside roles. There have been examples of bank examiners joining FIG groups @ very junior levels.
 

It needs to be the right position in government. HBS loves people who worked in the white house, treasury, state department, and the CIA. It obviously matters exactly what you did in those roles, but generally speaking those areas have done well. Being a staffer is not a good spot to be in for HBS unless you're working for a big-time senator and doing substantive work in terms of policy.

 
helpmepleasethx:
So theoretically if I'm working for House leadership or a committee with significant responsibility it is possible? I feel like some House staffers end up doing a lot more than their White House equivalents. For instance Director of Mail for the President vs a Legislative Director in a Senate/House office...

If you have significant responsibilites with house leadership, that's a different story. It will ultimately boil down to how well you present yourself and your BS'ing skills. Getting into a top b-school is a lot about positioning, sometimes moreso than raw credentials. HBS does care a lot about undergrad gpa and leadership. You can't do anything about the former, but the latter is well within your control. If you can get strong recs as well as do something outside of work, like serving on the board of a non-profit, that will help as well.

Good luck.

 

Government and policy are the disappointment of many a promising young graduate. The best you can get out of it is contacts (for that lobbying career later on), learning how to BS with authority (gotta cover up that no one does any work or really knows what they're talking about), and just hope that you're emerging with your reputation and health free of STIs (politics is a power game and sex is the ultimate power tool so the field attracts a lot of sluts who are bandied around by the same small crew of lecherous old men).

Whether you can BS your way into HBS or another top 10 school will depend a lot on the above.

The truth is you're the weak. And I'm the tyranny of evil men. But I'm tryin', Ringo. I'm tryin' real hard to be the shepherd.
 

Forget about the leadership.

First off for a government candidate is: - UG brand - UG GPA - GMAT - brand of your department - big hitter supporting you - some kind of EC that shows you're not just a policy wonk

Without knowing that it's hard to know.

The truth is you're the weak. And I'm the tyranny of evil men. But I'm tryin', Ringo. I'm tryin' real hard to be the shepherd.
 

-Undergrad was semi-target (maybe leaning more towards target, big firms recruited on campus (including GS, Citi, etc.) but not all firms). -3.6 (Cum Laude) -N/A -Theoretically, House Committee -Big hitter meaning what? As in a Member of Congress writing a recommendation? I know at least for law school this is frowned upon as your considered to have worked more closely with a high ranking staff member (chief of staff or LD) and should have them write your rec -EC meaning what? Something as simple as playing sports in a men's league? Or something more substantive such as charity work, what exactly are they looking for? Would college varsity sports count?

 

All those are good things (higher up than Member of Congress, though - those people don't even have passports!). In short, you may not get into HBS, but a few years from now, if you so choose (and don't fuck up) you will get into a school with strong banking and consulting recruitment, and you will get one of those jobs afterwards. What rank, I don't know, but it'll do the trick.

The truth is you're the weak. And I'm the tyranny of evil men. But I'm tryin', Ringo. I'm tryin' real hard to be the shepherd.
 

I'd make sure you are focusing your essays on the reason you are leaving government for banking or consulting ($$$). They'll love it. Love. It.

Bang.

"Just go to the prom and get your promotion. That's the way the business world works. Come on, Keith!" - The Boss
 

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