How much do traders at large firms get to trade with?

I'm a long time lurker (2yrs) and I haven't seen this question covered on here: How much does a first year commodity trader at one of the majors (Trafi/Glencore/Vitol) get to trade with on a daily basis? Monthly?

How much does a physical commodity trader at one of the major (Trafi/Glencore/Vitol) get to trade with on a daily basis? Monthly?

 

I worked in risk at 2 of the shops you mentioned (or similar Swiss trading house). From what I've seen junior roles get 250k to 500k VaR. From there increases are dependent on performance, up to millions of dollars of VaR. Also depends on what products they trade and if they're part of teams i.e crude/natgas/gasoline desks usually demand higher VaR then some of the smaller products.

 

Any idea about the limits for a physical trader?

Example: a soft commodity trader sourcing coffee in Africa. How much of budget would one of the majors give their staff to source x tons of coffee in developing country x and deliver it to buyer in developed country y?

I ask because the spread is tight with a lot commodities, so a time, geographic, or production arbitrage would require a significant capital outlay in order to make a worthwhile return ($ amount).

 

Depends on the commodity. Know a few crude traders who work for those/similar shops and their risk limits are a lot larger than 500k.. You can't even get a tanker for 500k. Most of them have at some point lost 5m on one trade and mgmt is fine with is.

"The way to make money is to buy when blood is running in the streets." -John D. Rockefeller
 
Best Response

I have never really seen any set rules in physical, but anything you do is going to have get approval from somebody above you. It's not really a "here's a million dollars, figure something out" kind of proposition. Starting out it's more of a "hey, I think we can sell to this guy which nets us back more than usual" or "hey this guy is selling to us below market for xyz reasons." Starting out, the wider the margins the likelier you will be allowed to do something.

If we're looking at really big physical deals of recent years, all of those massive oil offtakes in Russia are negotiated up to the CEO level. On a smaller scale, but big for metals, there was the story of a big aluminum pile you could see in satellite pictures in the US. There is no way that kind of position was built up without approvals of basically everyone at the firm.

 

Nesciunt amet facere enim magnam cumque et. Voluptatem quia voluptas autem quis.

Velit quaerat enim cupiditate ab iste consequatur. Et sint quia animi nostrum eos nam esse. Quisquam sunt eos magnam officia beatae. Soluta eum possimus est officiis. Laudantium cumque voluptatem illum accusantium id ut. Esse ullam et ullam velit vitae ea. Impedit molestias aliquid autem culpa at et.

Career Advancement Opportunities

April 2024 Investment Banking

  • Jefferies & Company 02 99.4%
  • Goldman Sachs 19 98.8%
  • Harris Williams & Co. New 98.3%
  • Lazard Freres 02 97.7%
  • JPMorgan Chase 03 97.1%

Overall Employee Satisfaction

April 2024 Investment Banking

  • Harris Williams & Co. 18 99.4%
  • JPMorgan Chase 10 98.8%
  • Lazard Freres 05 98.3%
  • Morgan Stanley 07 97.7%
  • William Blair 03 97.1%

Professional Growth Opportunities

April 2024 Investment Banking

  • Lazard Freres 01 99.4%
  • Jefferies & Company 02 98.8%
  • Goldman Sachs 17 98.3%
  • Moelis & Company 07 97.7%
  • JPMorgan Chase 05 97.1%

Total Avg Compensation

April 2024 Investment Banking

  • Director/MD (5) $648
  • Vice President (19) $385
  • Associates (87) $260
  • 3rd+ Year Analyst (14) $181
  • Intern/Summer Associate (33) $170
  • 2nd Year Analyst (66) $168
  • 1st Year Analyst (205) $159
  • Intern/Summer Analyst (146) $101
notes
16 IB Interviews Notes

“... there’s no excuse to not take advantage of the resources out there available to you. Best value for your $ are the...”

Leaderboard

1
redever's picture
redever
99.2
2
Secyh62's picture
Secyh62
99.0
3
BankonBanking's picture
BankonBanking
99.0
4
Betsy Massar's picture
Betsy Massar
99.0
5
CompBanker's picture
CompBanker
98.9
6
GameTheory's picture
GameTheory
98.9
7
kanon's picture
kanon
98.9
8
dosk17's picture
dosk17
98.9
9
Linda Abraham's picture
Linda Abraham
98.8
10
DrApeman's picture
DrApeman
98.8
success
From 10 rejections to 1 dream investment banking internship

“... I believe it was the single biggest reason why I ended up with an offer...”