How much does diversity really help?
Topic. People on this forum seem to act like diversity makes recruiting so much easier but how much is that really true? Does diversity really make that much of a difference as people say on this forum?
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Considering the social and political environment in the world, it's going be more and more "helpful." Debatable on if it is beneficial on a macro scale, it's becoming more important for companies to become more diverse (in my opinion, diverse professional experience is great but if we're talking race/ethnicity? No, I don't agree with that current stance that seems prevalent in every corporate company).
You think the people who gave you MS can understand sports references?
I agree with what you said - really disagree with counting as diversity black students who went to top private schools and graduated top of their class from Harvard / Oxford. They have exactly the same background as white peers.
Tbh I really disagree with diversity recruiting (and I don’t actually consider females as diversity, and for gays... like seriously, why does it even come up in interviews?) In some fields (consulting) being diversity gives you a really massive leg up and I’ve seen that been the case for rich kids more often than under-advantaged ones.
The better alternative IMO would be to help more underprivileged backgrounds (independently of skin colour or sexual orientation) earlier on in life so the issue can be addressed at the source. But I’m sure some diversity candidates will disagree with my post. I think for females, there are less female at top levels, but I’m not convinced that recruiting 2% more girls in IB will help change that...
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Why are "white" Americans not doing something about this?
It's quite shocking. But that's what happens when your ruling class is made up of the most hateful people on the planet.
sb for Kyle Korver
Most diversity candidates at my bank would never receive an offer if they were judged by non-diversity standards.
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Most white people in your office wouldn't have a job if it weren't for the inbred nature of hiring on Wall Street, where objective intelligence or talent almost always takes a back seat to who you know.
Poor folks and minorities don't have those established networks of interpersonal and professional relationships, and thus get left out when the "recruiting" process starts up. For every butthurt white 22 year old complaining about how some minority with a lower GPA got a job when he didn't, you never hear one making the same argument about the huge numbers of straight white men who get jobs in banking when they have no business being there. Solving for outcome in the short term will help solve for opportunity in the long term.
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This 100%. I've pointed out the hypocrisy over and over again, but of course since this sub is mostly white guys, my comments barely register here. It's a wonder how these guys go through the mental gymnastics to not complain about the shit ton of wealthy white kids who funnel their way into banking and instead complain about some distant minority candidate out there in the ether who is taking their "well deserved spot" in banking. Like buddy, this world is already designed for you, and if you can't get into banking on your own even if a few "diversity" candidates are allegedly getting an easier hand for once in their lives, then maybe the problem is YOU.
Nepotism and "old boys club" candidates are the OG diversity candidates.
Way easier
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Not true. I ran analyst recruiting at EVR/MOE/LAZ for 2 years, and we specially gave easier (told ahead of time which topics were off limits) interviews and lowered other bars (GPA, SAT, school caliber) for black and/or female interviewees.
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Doubt it, you'll probably get eaten alive in interviews
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Too easy. Some kids did 0 networking and had 0 finance experience were offered super days left and right.
Speaking facts bro
If you look at any non target schools, most likely all the alumni at BBs are diversity.
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It doesn't help at all...
How much does it help the firms performance. Probably debatable. How much value can the firm get from sucking its own PR dick? Priceless
As a diverse candidate, I can say that for EBs and MFPE it may help to get an interview, but the technical questions are still the same, but since I didn't recruit for BBs I don't know how much harder/easier the interviews are. I can say that GS gave me 3 super days in 3 different front office positions, even though I told them each time that I signed elsewhere. From my understanding though, in general, BB interviews for non-diverse candidates aren't that hard, especially if you go to a target school.
Imo, if you had to rank in terms of who has it easiest: Diversity + target school > Nepotism > target school/semi-target >= Diversity > non-targets > Asian non-targets
What people on WSO like to forget is that these banks have the pick of the litter when it comes to diverse candidates, so they can literally hand pick the best of the best. Of course the occasional bottom bucket may slip through, but the kid who got the job based on nepotism is just as likely to be bad too.
Also, the idea that it makes it harder for non URMs is BS too. There may be slightly less spots out of a BB class of >150 (mainly due to white women), but most top diverse students have an entirely different recruiting process than non diverse students, so 95% of the time, in your super day, you're losing out to a non URM not the Black girl from Spelman.
Nepotism + target is significantly easier than diversity + target. Not even close. These kids don't even actually do interviews sometimes, especially at some of MMs.
Are you kidding? You really think that diversity + target is easier than Nepotism?? Being at a target school makes it easier for anyone, because of self-selection. 99% of the time, a diversity kid at a target would successfully recruit regardless… because, believe it or not, they got into the target and are also smart. This shit isn’t rocket science.
Chet from Wofford College with a 3.1 can sidestep all of this shit with a phone call from his dad to the MD.
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True facts
the only diversity hiring i want to see at my firm is hot girls who are being babysat by other groups that i can ogle at without having their shitty work impact me
Is it this way in Europe and Asia? I imagine the current diversity initiative is really only possible (and 'desired') in America. The US is likely the most diverse nation in the world, so if companies here wanted to fashionably hire a bunch of non-white, non-Asian people they easily could. [I don't think a London office could get the same mix so easily] edit: Apparently London could.
Hong Kong and Tokyo offices would be wracking their brains trying to find non-Asians. They might have to pass off white guys as diversity, or even Asian people of other nationalities like Korean or Vietnamese. Give it five or ten years people will either wake up and realize how patronizing and racist this looks, or will have doubled down and straight up refuse to hire 'overrepresented' people. Super weird environment where your race makes so much of a difference in how companies view you as a candidate.
Edit: Alright yea London is very diverse, I agree with the guy below. I forgot Europe gets a huge draw from all over. Still stand by Asia's homogeneity though. America is also diverse in the way that modern diversity champions like. Everyone except for the native Americans is an immigrant or descended from immigrants sometime in the last 2-300 years, so there isn't one way an 'American' should look. You couldn't blame someone for expecting a Fin to look Finnish or a Dane to look Danish.
Diversity is huge in China for example. So long as the diversity is native Han Chinese.
I am from a third-world country and I would say that is as important as in the US. Sure the criteria are not the same because we are almost all the same ethnic group however there are literally quotas to women/poor/public schooled/agriculture families/etc. In the developing world with weak institutions some things that are unconstitutional in the US happen here, for example, an analyst class that is just for XYZ group. I got both a scholarship and a job because of these, however, I am not really sure how I feel about it. I would rather see companies/government helping really poor people then helping college-educated people get a top job.
In India, roughly 50% of the seats in top public schools are reserved for minority and diversity candidates.
Did you just say the US is the most diverse country in the world ??? I love Americans 😂
OK, you have a bunch of foreigners in NYC, and a high % of global elite in places like Boston and California, but appart from that it’s mostly Mexicans/Latinos (I think 30% of population is Latino or some crazy number like that?)
In London in contrast you have a much more diverse pool of citizens, Asians, Europeans (UE is 27 countries just FYI), Latinos, Africans, etc.
So sure NYC is a/the global city but saying that the US is the most diverse country in the world and London isn’t diverse is quite funny.
Btw I’m in a London office and my current co workers are Chinese, Greek, Russian, Indian and German We probably have at least 15-20 nationalities in my office
Oh yes, diversity works wonders! It gives me a much larger of pool of companies to short. In the long run the superficial diversity will destroy once great companies as homogeneous group think takes over and everyone moves in lock step towards the cliff.
Us indian american dudes are truly fucked. We experience racism from a young age, are called terrorists, made fun of, yet we still are considered privileged in the eyes of banks and universities EVEN IN COMPARISON TO WHITE PEOPLE. Instead of going out and having fun in the summer, we are forced to do SAT/ACT prep, and then they penalize us for doing so (we are at a 3.4 point disadvantage compared to white people on the ACT when it comes to college, and over 7 points compared to AA's).
Y’all have delicious food. I’m literally drooling over that delicious chicken tikka masala. I gotta come home and eat my mom’s cold leftover meatloaf.
On god bro. Just had butter chicken a few hours ago. Tasted fucking heavenly. If you're in NYC, I highly recommend Saar's Indian Cuisine. Best Indian restaurant in America for sure.
For better or worse, the regional office of the top MM I am going to doesn't hold diversity recruiting. The NY office is very diverse and I want to say close to 50% of the candidates come in through diversity recruiting. As a technically not-diverse male (Asian), definitely feel lucky that the fact that I was "overrepresented" didn't hold me back in recruiting at least one place.
Can someone explain to me why Asian women count as diversity in SEO lmaoo
I’m diversity but I come from a non-target. I never really understood why diversity doesn’t focus on individuals from non-wealthy backgrounds. If you’re an URM and go to a target like Harvard then there is no need for additional help. If you go to a top target and can’t land a top role then you’re just an idiot that didn’t deserve a role to begin with. I have gone to diversity events where this kid went to Harvard and his parents are affluent doctors. Please explain to me how he deserves any more additional help?
As a diversity candidate, I get that it’s very frustrating to white and Asian/Indian men. I just wish these companies actually focus on the source of the problem. Giving an IB job to a rich black/Hispanic kid does nothing to solve that.
This. I saw a lot of this type of "diversity" in b school as well. Hispanic, but father is an oligarch in South America. Thai, but family owns one of the largest businesses in their home country. Black, but parents are both very successful doctors. This doesn't really add much true diversity.
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This was very helpful and totally agree
Bro your post is way too long to be read in full, however if you think people shouldn’t be selected based on merit, if you don’t like meritocracy, you’re wrong.
If a bunch of Indians are better than me in all criteria, then fair.
Sorry for lenth - put shortly why do you want a pure meritocracy and do you believe you would have prospered in that system?
I'm a white female LGBT applicant with contacts within a few BB and larger regional banks--my diversity checkboxes and referrals sent me directly to the 2nd stage of interviews, and I'm currently reviewing a few offers. My GPA and experience line up with most of the other applicants, but I know that being female and LGBT gave me a significant boost. Is it a good thing for me? Yeah. Is it a good thing for the white straight man that most certainly would have taken my place otherwise...?
I'll go through my entire career not knowing if I got in on my own merit or if I was mostly a diversity hire. It feels shitty.
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