Using offers to get promoted
Who’s done it successfully?
Any horror stories?
Any especially good outcomes?
What are key factors to consider before going this route to improve standing at current fund
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Bump anyone?
Ive seen it a couple times, didnt go over well.
At a high level, this isnt banking or corporate finance, you dont get paid simply because somebody else would pay you more. You are being paid based on the amount of money your PM thinks you are worth, if somebody else is willing to pay more then your PM would surmise that person is the greater fool.
Fair point. Would your opinion change if you were dealing with the CIO and PM was not well regarded?
No.
I know someone who tried to do that (although not in a HF/AM), they kept him for a year and then gave him a fat 0 as a bonus and told him that now he will for sure will be paid elsewhere if he was looking to move anyways.
There is a reason why firms poaching you will pay you more, it's because you leave an environment you know where you have some goodwill to get a good bonus (assuming you perform well) to an environment you know nothing about.
Consensus seems to be leave or stay but no in between
shit that’s where they played their hand terribly wrong. you either have to leave or get a guarantee to stay. I’ve seen cases at the VP and above level where people have been bid back by the bank. even at my old credit fund if someone was leaving for another opportunity and they liked the person they would think about bidding them back.
Agree that they fucked up. But was raising this for people that don’t really want to move but still get a promotion/pay upgrade.
If it takes an offer from another place to get promoted you are either not doing a good enough job (actual or as perceived by others) or the firm doesn’t treat people well and it’ll be a fight to get raises/promotions going forward. It is very rare that this situation is what makes a firm/boss realize they haven’t done the right thing and correct it with no hard feelings. What I have seen is that they’ll either let you walk, or do the minimum to keep you happy and then not forget that and you’ll be fighting it for the rest of your career.
You have to be ready to leave in this case, and as someone pointed out you are giving up your “career/firm equity” by going to another place so be sure you are ok with that.
Very helpful:
does the situation change if for example as a Sr analyst it has been talked about you could become a PM down the line already and you use it to “accelerate” the process?
I know everyone says this but what about if you are not “easily replaceable” given coverage etc k
If those things are true don’t use the offer to try and accelerate this, talk about your value, why you think it makes sense, etc. By bringing an offer you are going to escalate a situation that might not require this. You can always decide to bring that up later, but if a firm is serious about wanting you to be a PM, you are doing a good job, you are hard to replace then have that conversation. Don’t bring up the offer and confuse the two, use that as a last option and be ready to walk, if you think you are worth a promotion have the conversation, it’s a lot less messy that way.
Great feedback.
For what it’s worth I was more focused on asking for more responsibility over risk or a sleeve rather that $ directly. Context is PM is underperforming and not implementing recs that have been panning out without proving adequate rebuttals.
Not sure if that alters folks advice
If the PM gets fired and you dont get a promotion then either you arent as good as you think you are, the CIO doesnt recognize your talent or the fund does not manage its operations well. So you are better off actually leaving. I would caution as the other posters have, you do not get paid for job hopping in this industry, if you have multiple funds in a short time period it looks sloppy.
So I think the consensus is wait to see how this plays out and put in good work in the near term, if not get another offer and decide if its worth the risk to take it.
Appreciate the feedback and agreed on the job hopping. In my case the scenario is quickly moving from hypothetical. For context have been at current firm for almost a decade and “waiting for the PM to go” for at least a 12-18 months . Deep in the process with another group and seems like an “unsolicited” offer is a real possibility so not sure I have a luxury of waiting to see what the CIO really thinks. If they hadn’t hinted at the possibility of taking on risk or I wasn’t looking at potentially another offer I’d agree that I have the luxury of time.
I do like the approach mentioned above of asking independently for risk, keeping the offer as a last resort but being ready to walk
refer to the multiple instances in Billions when people tried tried to leverage their offers
The minute you try and use leverage against your boss/company is the minute your relationship with that boss/company changes and you had better be in a position to walk away or be pretty confident in your ability to land a new seat. There are 3 outcomes (i) they call your bluff and let you walk; (ii) you are hard to replace right away so they give in to your demands but start quietly looking for your replacement and kick you out at the next downturn or as soon as they have found your replacement. Some companies can be really clever and even hire a new guy and have you train them and then kick you out once they are happy with the new guy, or (iii) they give in to your demands but will always resent you for the move you pulled and will no longer view you as committed to the company and you will be passed over for future promotions/pay rises.
It is always best to just ask your superiors what you need to do to get what you want. For example if you want to make more money just ask what you need to do to get to the comp level you want. This is a money oriented business so don't be afraid to discuss comp.
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