How much should you pay in market making games
If the question for ex is you get the dollar amount on a 6 sided dice roll -> $3.5 expected value, what is the right answer to say for what you should pay?
Intuitively I feel it needs to be $3.25 or less, but maybe the better answer is anything less than $3.5 ?
Bonus: If you were given a million dollars but need to return it in a few days, how would you invest it.
Thanks :)
There's no right answer to this question. I'd probably think about with what certainty you expect that outcome though. Say you expect there to be a 10% margin of error, then your bid would be expectation - margin of error*expectation, which would make your market $3.15 - $3.50. Think along those lines.
I’m not an expert in market making but why is the range centered on 3.30 and not 3.50?
The true market is 3.30 - 3.65 that I brought up in the example. However, making 3.15 - 3.50 is a correct answer as well, you'll just have less downside risk. I kind of added my own trading style to the answer without an explanation there...
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while the statistical avg is 3.5, you can't actually roll a 3.5 so its either going to be (on avg) a 3 or a 4....
1/6 = 16.666% and a die has 6 sides so, at the narrowest, i would be 3.33 bid vs 3.67 offer
however, when being asked "what should you pay?" the answer is obviously "something below the expected value of 3.5 and the lower the better"
depending on how many rolls you get (and the possibility of other bidders potentially competing away your bid) will determine how close to 3.5 i would be willing to pay. If just 1 roll, then my bid would be 3 or below. If there are competitors bidding, then i would bid just over 3 (3.05)
how did you calculate the 3.33 bid and 3.67 offer?
Forgive the necro, but the above is wrong. You can make your spread far narrower than 3.33-3.67 and would get laughed at if you did so since there is perfect public information on the Theo. The only right answer here is 3.49-3.51 assuming a 2 wide market.
It's interesting, the nobody got the correct answer. There is a theme in these questions, how do you think about risk? I think a good answer would be that how wide you make you dice market depends on how often you're going to play, who's money it is, how much money you're better on it, etc. With the million dollars overnight, you could put it in a bank account overnight and get one night of interest, or you could take it to the casino and bet the whole thing on 00. The right answer is somewhere in between, depending on the circumstances. When you're trading a book on a dealer desk, you actually could bet the whole thing on 00 and some people have done that, although risk departments are getting a lot better at spotting this. A fun answer for the dice might be, "well the expected value is $3.50, but the max you would pay depends on how much risk you want to take. {insert details} ...But even an argument could even be made to pay zero. I saw a 5 dollar bill on the ground on the way here but I didn't stop because I didn't want to be late to interview with your bank. If you gave me a chance to trade, I'd only take risk when I was making enough money to be worthwhile and believed I could cut my losses on any one position before losing too much. The idea is to make money consistently and manage my risk."
Assuming a two-wide market then 3.49 - 3.51 is the only correct answer. Moreover, if your market is any wider then a competitor will happily quote tighter and take all the volume. Also, who is your counterparty here? How on earth is any reasonable counterparty ever taking this trade wider than 3.49-3.51, even if a competitor MM did not immediately tighten their market to that (as they undoubtedly would)?
"I think a good answer would be that how wide you make you dice market depends on how often you're going to play, who's money it is, how much money you're better on it, etc"
This is good and I agree that these questions are as much an attempt to see how you reason about risk as about anything else.
"But even an argument could even be made to pay zero. I saw a 5 dollar bill on the ground on the way here but I didn't stop because I didn't want to be late to interview with your bank. If you gave me a chance to trade, I'd only take risk when I was making enough money to be worthwhile and believed I could cut my losses on any one position before losing too much."
I think this, however, is far too cute. Firstly, if you'd stopped to pick the bill up it would have taken you about five secs, an irrelevant margin in term of being early or late for an interview. Secondly, these questions typically emerge in the context of a final round onsite interview. They are roughly looking for certain answers, and anything too far outside the pale raises eyebrows in a negative way (market makers are looking for people who systematically handle risk in a clear, reproducible, and consistent way).
"The idea is to make money consistently and manage my risk."
Passing up the opportunity to make an absolutely fixed-in-stone long term 1c +EV trade because there may be better opportunities elsewhere, when a) these opportunities have not been mentioned in the context of the question and b) taking tens of billion of long term 1c +EV trades is the definition of the market maker profit system, will not be looked on favourably. There are plenty of better ways to show how clever you are in a final round interview than to argue that you would bid 0 for the expected value of a dice roll.
Given that this is a market making game, and not a long-term investment game, I think the right answer would be $3.49.
Cost of capital doesn't matter here because we assume that the game is instant.
Risk matters, but only if you have a small amount of money. For example, if you only have $0 and you take on $3.49 in debt to pay for the game, you'll end up broke half the time, and that's probably something that you want to avoid. So you'd pay less for the game - maybe $1.50. There isn't really a right answer there. But if you have a lot of money, to the point where you can easily diversify and $3 doesn't really matter to your overall net worth, you could pay up to $3.49 for the game. This is a diversifiable vs systematic risk thing: dice risk is uncorrelated with the market and therefore diversifiable by definition, so we don't add any risk premium for it.
Re. the second question, T-bills / money market I guess. Given that I have to return the money in a few days, and I assume the investor is expecting a return, I'd rather invest in something that actually guarantees me a return instead of something with a roughly 50% chance of failure.
I respectfully disagree. I think it's not worth your time to get involved in a single dice roll to make 1 penny. The counterargument is that if you can roll the dice 1 million times a day then it's great. So in the interview you can discuss that, and other things that would indicate you understand how to trade. You say you can pay up to 3.49. Well if you mention 3.49 in your answer you better talk about liquidity. Because we're not actually talking about dice, we're talking about trading, right? I mean, the interviewer is a probably a trader if they're asking you this question. Truth be told, if you say 3.49 it's probably a bad answer. Let's say you have to bid something in comp and you think you can sell it for 3.5 million. Do you bid 3.499999 million? No you definitely don't.
I understand what you're saying. But the reason why I stand by $3.49 here, specifically as an answer to the interview question, is because of 4 key assumptions (none of which were actually mentioned in the question, these are just things that I assumed based on similar questions I've had in interviews): 1) we have perfect information about the game, 2) the game completes instantly, and 3) we can diversify, and 4) the market for this hypothetical "dice roll" investment is efficient. If any of these assumptions is wrong, I agree with you though. Here's my reasoning:
If you look at the bid-ask spread for something like SPY, it's usually just a couple of cents. Oftentimes, it's a market maker on both sides of the spread. This is a very similar situation to betting $3.49 on the dice roll. The reason they're able to get away with it is that they're very well-diversified. Even if they make a lot of losing bets, they will usually make enough winning bets to net a profit. Combined with the speed at which they trade, they're able to make pretty good returns.
Other people are right that the point of the game (in interview) is to see how you think and handle about risk. They won't ask you 'make me a market on a contract which pays out $ equal to a single dice roll' and then go to another topic. Say you $3.1-3.9 for your market on a single contract.
"Now make me a market for 10x the size on another dice roll" - What does your spread look like now?
"I buy 7 contracts from you. Make me another market for 10 contracts." - What does your spread look like now?
"I sell you 9 contracts. What is your position now? What is the most you can lose?" - Have you been keeping track of everything? Can you keep your cool under pressure?
"Now make me a market on a contract which pays the mean of 100 dice rolls" - What does this spread look like relative to the others?
"Now make me a market on a contract which pays out equal to my address number" - What does this look like?
Point is the first answer doesn't even matter provided it's not stupid like 3.49-3.51 or 1.5-5.5 (some interviewers might entertain a conversation on why you might make a spread like that and BigData24's answer has some good points on that, but others will just think you're being pedantic/smart-alec because they want to get on with the rest of the game)
This person understands what is going on.
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