How should the U.S. retaliate against China?

When this is over, China faces a brutal reckoning. What should we do in retaliation, short of an actual military strike?

Here is what we know about what the evil communist Chinese regime did:

-The virus started in Wuhan in Oct/Nov 2019, and the Chinese government knew about it in Dec.
-They shut down the military base outside of Wuhan on New Year but did not tell its citizens.
-Hubei province (which includes Wuhan) was shut down later in January. However, China allowed several million of its citizens to travel abroad even when they clearly knew of the virus' contagious nature and health impact.
-The WHO repeated Chinese state propaganda; on January 14th, it released a tweet saying that the virus is not contagious between humans and that it is under control.
-China refused to let in our CDC inspectors.
-China kicked out American journalists.
-China suppressed courageous dissident voices who were speaking out the truth about the virus.

For the past 25-30 years, the elites of BOTH political parties engaged in a concerted policy agenda to incorporate China into the economic order and in the process outshored our manufacturing and industrial base. We turned a blind eye to their egregious human rights abuses, intellectual property theft, espionage, and cheating on trade deals. After all, there was too much money to be made. Politicians, Wall Street, Tech, Hollywood, NBA, etc., benefited immensely from this relationship. The mainstream U.S. media is basically glorified sockpuppets of the communist Chinese regime.

Now, with this pandemic, public opinion has shifted drastically. And politicians of both parties are coming to term with the reality of China. So what steps should we take to retaliate against China for the immense damage they inflicted on us and the world at large?

Potential suggestions:

  1. Cancel interest payments on all debt owed to China.
  2. Provide incentives for U.S. corporations to bring supply chains and manufacturing out of China.
  3. Call for China to be removed from the WTO and remove its most favored nation status.
  4. Aggressively scrutinize and prosecute Americans who engage in espionage and do work for the Chinese government. Traitors will be given the death penalty.
  5. Further strengthen ties with India to serve as a check against Chinese aggression.
  6. Deport all Chinese foreign nationals who are here on student or worker visas.
  7. Freeze all immigration from China for at least 10 years.

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Comments (119)

Funniest
  • Associate 2 in IB-M&A
Apr 11, 2020 - 5:51pm

Dude, we got it. You hate China. You had a miserable past growing up as an Asian. All those racism against you just because you are an Asian. Sorry to hear that. How do I get people to accept me and stop being racist against me? Be one of them! Hey, look, I hate China, I'm not one of them, I am one of you!

Go find some romance with Gordon Chang, you guys have everything in common. Again, sorry for what you went through as an Asian little kid, hope your hate towards China will fix that miserable past.

Apr 11, 2020 - 11:03pm

They are an open enemy. Cancelling our debt to them would be a good place to start.

Array

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  • Prospect in IB-M&A
Apr 11, 2020 - 7:49pm

There's a difference between being Asian and being Chinese. Otherwise it's like saying all Europeans are the same because they're all historically Caucasian. Him being Asian has nothing to do with the fact that China ought to be retaliated against.

  • Associate 2 in IB-M&A
Apr 11, 2020 - 10:54pm

Of course anyone can call out China. But based on this dude's history on this site, it's clear that he hates China with a passion and is looking for every excuse possible to shit on China. So I suspect he has some kind of syndrome resulting from his experience as an Asian here in the US.

Controversial
Apr 11, 2020 - 11:04pm
Associate 2 in IB-M&A:

Of course anyone can call out China. But based on this dude's history on this site, it's clear that he hates China with a passion and is looking for every excuse possible to shit on China. So I suspect he has some kind of syndrome resulting from his experience as an Asian here in the US.

And how exactly do you think the Taiawanese feel about the Chinese Communist Party? Or Hong Kong or Tibet residents? This "hating on China is racism" bullshit is the most ignorant, white progressive bullshit I can think of--it's so 2020.

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Apr 12, 2020 - 2:18am
Associate 2 in IB-M&A:

Of course anyone can call out China. But based on this dude's history on this site, it's clear that he hates China with a passion and is looking for every excuse possible to shit on China. So I suspect he has some kind of syndrome resulting from his experience as an Asian here in the US.

Yes, I'm a conservative Republican. Surprise! Contrary to what liberals believe, one's political ideology and policy preferences are not inextricably linked to one's race/ethnicity. And the notion that I should support communist China over my own country simply because of my race, is in itself an absurd racist proposition.

Apr 11, 2020 - 11:19pm

Completely agree. I'm predominantly British and German. I have no respect for Germany as a nation. None whatsoever. I consider them to be the prime cause of enmity in Europe for the last 130 years. Criticizing a nation is not inherently racism or self-hatred. I would hope an Asian American would consider himself an American and not a transplated Chinese/Korean/Japanese, etc.

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  • Analyst 1 in AM - FI
Apr 11, 2020 - 8:07pm

China reported to WHO in January (including the US) and had been constantly updating every movement until it ended. What the US did during Feb and Mar? Everyone knows that China imposed the strictest lockdown measures and asked everyone to wear masks whenever one goes out. I unfortunately have been in lockdown both in China and in France. How differently people consider it just shocked me.

Apr 13, 2020 - 9:08am

Wu mao

"Some things are believed because they are demonstrably true. But many other things are believed simply because they have been asserted repeatedly—and repetition has been accepted as a substitute for evidence." - Thomas Sowell
Apr 11, 2020 - 9:03pm

How about POUNDING them in the ASS à la @Lloyd Blankfein"?

Quant (ˈkwänt) n: An expert, someone who knows more and more about less and less until they know everything about nothing.

  • 2
Apr 11, 2020 - 9:43pm

2 and 5 are the only plausible options. I agree with you that liberalizing the Chinese economy has sacrificed American manufacturing and industry - but we can't cry for deregulation and then be surprised when companies offshore for cheaper labor/production costs abroad...

Also the U.S could have saved many more lives if 45 didn't respond so lackadaisically back in January and actually isolated known cases/enforced a strict travel ban much earlier.

Apr 11, 2020 - 11:01pm

The U.S., UK, etc. should jointly send China a $15-20 trillion bill and if China refuses to acknowledge the debt the U.S, at least, could and should dissolve its debt that China owns. Germany post WWI got way worse than that.

Array

Apr 11, 2020 - 11:05pm

Disagree. They should jointly send armies to China and liberate the Chinese people from the evil CCP. We have been waiting for you. Where have you been all those years? We need you more than those Middle Easterns do.

Apr 11, 2020 - 11:06pm
Chinese RE Guy:

Disagree. They should jointly send armies to China and liberate the Chinese people from the evil CCP. We have been waiting for you. Where have you been all those years? We need you more than those Middle Easterns do.

Your irrelevant sarcasm aside, sending the Communist Party a bill for the tens of trillions of dollars of damage it brought to the world is completely and utterly just.

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Apr 12, 2020 - 2:06am

Here's my strategies:

  1. Kicking China out of WHO and the UN. If WHO and UN won't agree to kick out China, leave those useless organizations.
  2. Encourage firms to do less business with China by finding alternatives for manufacturing like India
  3. Continue supporting the Hong Kong protesters.
  4. Boycott Hollywood movies since they are clearly obsessed with China
  5. Limit and restrict the amount of Chinese students granted visas to study and work
  6. Mandatory labels on products showing what percentage of the components are from China, eg. a phone made in Korea but 20% of the components were imported from China.
  7. Vietnam has a lot of issues with China at the moment, so hopefully Vietnam removes its Socialist/Communist regime eventually and adopt a free-market
  8. Ban Huawei
  9. Stop selling natural resources to China. Australia does this a lot, and they need to stop.
Apr 12, 2020 - 9:33am
WorldsGr8estKid:

Here's my strategies:
  1. Kicking China out of WHO and the UN. If WHO and UN won't agree to kick out China, leave those useless organizations.
  2. Encourage firms to do less business with China by finding alternatives for manufacturing like India
  3. Continue supporting the Hong Kong protesters.
  4. Boycott Hollywood movies since they are clearly obsessed with China
  5. Limit and restrict the amount of Chinese students granted visas to study and work
  6. Mandatory labels on products showing what percentage of the components are from China, eg. a phone made in Korea but 20% of the components were imported from China.
  7. Vietnam has a lot of issues with China at the moment, so hopefully Vietnam removes its Socialist/Communist regime eventually and adopt a free-market
  8. Ban Huawei
  9. Stop selling natural resources to China. Australia does this a lot, and they need to stop.

1.) Won't happen, this is a pipe dream.
2.) This is fine and diversifying our supply chain is a good thing to do.
3.) This is whatever - inconsequential
4.) Lol, of all our issues related to China you think we should waste time with Hollywood? Ok...
5.) There are already limits and restrictions to student visas. And like the Hollywood thing, this isn't a needle mover.
6.) Ok
7.) Idk what the Vietnamese will do so w/e
8.) I agree with this actually
9.) Not gonna happen

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Apr 12, 2020 - 10:35am
WorldsGr8estKid:

Here's my strategies:
4. Boycott Hollywood movies since they are clearly obsessed with China

Wtf are you talking about?

How many movies are about China or Chinese people???

Apr 12, 2020 - 9:24am

While I agree with your issues with CCP's actions (violations of WHO), let's evaluate your proposal:

>1. Cancel interest payments on all debt owed to China.

So China fails to tell WHO in a timely manner that there's a mysterious flu, and your solution is for the US to default on its sovereign debt and destroy the faith and credit of US treasuries, and obliterate a reputation built over 200 years. The fledgling US made sure it honored its war debts after the Revolutionary War inorder to establish a precedence that (like the Landisters) the US always pays its debts. China waits too long to tell WHO about a flu and you want to burn down a key pillar of US economic policy? Really? Like, really really?

>2. Provide incentives for U.S. corporations to bring supply chains and manufacturing out of China.

many of those factories have already been moving to lower-wage countries.

> 3. Call for China to be removed from the WTO and remove its most favored nation status.

That's not how WTO works. You do know that right? Calls for sanctions under WTO, sure, but their violations were of WHO standards, and has nothing to do with WTO. That's like pushing for a murderer in California to be tried in traffic court in Uzbekestan.

> 4. Aggressively scrutinize and prosecute Americans who engage in espionage and do work for the Chinese government. Traitors will be given the death penalty.

I'm all for decisive punishment against IP theft. But treason is defined as acting against your country during wartime, just FYI. Someone committing a crime doesn't get upleveled to wartime treason on a say-so.

> 5. Further strengthen ties with India to serve as a check against Chinese aggression.

US has already been doing that

>6. Deport all Chinese foreign nationals who are here on student or worker visas.

WTF did the foreign students do? Guity of being born in China, or guilty of wanting to come to US to study and self-improve? BTW Chinese students have been basically propping up most universities financially, especially the public ones. I doubt those schools will appreciate being pushed into insolvency because of what the CCP did.

> 7. Freeze all immigration from China for at least 10 years.

Because again, fuck the people who have nothing to do with the government's actions. That will show them. The audacity to be born in China. The nerve.

But why stop there? I say we go shooting Iranians in the street because of what Iran's government does. Or let's set fire to NY Russians because Putin is a despot.

Apr 12, 2020 - 9:27am
earthwalker7:

While I agree with your issues with CCP's actions (violations of WHO), let's evaluate your proposal:
  1. Cancel interest payments on all debt owed to China.

> and destroy faith and credit of US treasuries, and our stellar reputation built over 200 years. Really? Like, really really?

  1. Provide incentives for U.S. corporations to bring supply chains and manufacturing out of China.

> many of those factories have already been moving to lower-wage countries.

  1. Call for China to be removed from the WTO and remove its most favored nation status.

> That's not how WTO works. You do know that right? Calls for sanctions under WTO, sure, but their violations were of WHO standards, and has nothing to do with WTO. That's like pushing for a murderer in California to be tried in traffic court in Uzbekestan.

  1. Aggressively scrutinize and prosecute Americans who engage in espionage and do work for the Chinese government. Traitors will be given the death penalty.

> Treason is defined as acting against your country during wartime, just FYI. Someone committing a crime doesn't get upleveled to wartime treason on a say-so.

  1. Further strengthen ties with India to serve as a check against Chinese aggression.

> US has already been doing that

  1. Deport all Chinese foreign nationals who are here on student or worker visas.

> WTF did the foreign students do? Guity of being born in China, or guilty of wanting to come to US to study and self-improve? BTW Chinese students have been basically propping up most universities financially, especially the public ones. I doubt those schools will appreciate being pushed into insolvency because of what the CCP did.

  1. Freeze all immigration from China for at least 10 years.

> Because again, fuck the people who have nothing to do with the government's actions. That will show them. The audacity to be born in China. The nerve.

2,4, and 5 can happen and needs to happen. Anything else is nonsense. A majority of OP's post "American media is a Chinese puppet" is nonsense.

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Apr 12, 2020 - 9:33am

Agree with your points 100%. OP's post about US media being a Chinese puppet is silly to the point of making me think he never watches US media. Points 2 and 5 maybe are actionable. The rest are rubbish.

For example, pt 4 is a WHO violation, not a WTO violation. Mind you, there's PLENTY to bring China up on, re WTO violations. But it's conflating multiple issues and violations. I stand by my analogy that it's akin to trying a murderer in traffic court. The violations are of a totally different set of rules and laws. As for remedies, there's a think tank in UK that suggests that one could sue China in The Hague. And one can, and might even win. However the problem is that when China has lost in The Hague - like they did regarding the 9-Dash Line and seizing of islands in the South China Sea, they just ignore the ruling and deny the validity of the court. Just sayin' it's not so easy as OP makes it seem.

Apr 12, 2020 - 9:39am
earthwalker7:

2 and 5 maybe. Pt 4 is a WHO violation, not a WTO violation. Mind you, there's PLENTY to bring China up on, re WTO violations. But it's conflating multiple issues and violations. I stand by my analogy that it's akin to trying a murderer in traffic court. The violations are of a totally different set of rules and laws. As for remedies, there's a think tank in UK that suggests that one could sue China in The Hague. And one can, and might even win. However the problem is that when China has lost in The Hague - like they did regarding the 9-Dash Line and seizing of islands in the South China Sea, they just ignore the ruling and deny the validity of the court. Just sayin' it's not so easy as OP makes it seem.

"Aggressively scrutinize and prosecute Americans who engage in espionage and do work for the Chinese government. Traitors will be given the death penalty."

How is this a WHO violation? I think the U.S. should diversify it supply chain and come down heavy on IP theft from any Chinese companies period. But I thought that before COVID. In fact, COVID has done nothing to change my view on how we should handle China.

All of our focus should be on IP theft and diversifying our supply chain. Chinese companies that do business here need to be heavily scrutinized and we need to demand transparency on governance/financials otherwise they should do business elsewhere. China/U.S. company mergers involving U.S. tech should also face thorough investigation.

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Apr 12, 2020 - 10:50pm
earthwalker7:

Agree with your points 100%. OP's post about US media being a Chinese puppet is silly to the point of making me think he never watches US media. Points 2 and 5 maybe are actionable. The rest are rubbish.

For example, pt 4 is a WHO violation, not a WTO violation. Mind you, there's PLENTY to bring China up on, re WTO violations. But it's conflating multiple issues and violations. I stand by my analogy that it's akin to trying a murderer in traffic court. The violations are of a totally different set of rules and laws. As for remedies, there's a think tank in UK that suggests that one could sue China in The Hague. And one can, and might even win. However the problem is that when China has lost in The Hague - like they did regarding the 9-Dash Line and seizing of islands in the South China Sea, they just ignore the ruling and deny the validity of the court. Just sayin' it's not so easy as OP makes it seem.

The Chinese have made substantial investments in and have extensive relationships with U.S. media outlets, Hollywood, NBA. The media repeated Chinese propaganda on the virus, such as citing its infection and death numbers as fact and praising China for exporting PPEs to Italy and Spain, which were shown to be defective. Nor did they scrutinize China's hoarding of PPEs.

We already saw the power of China's reach with the way the NBA kowtowed to China during the Hong Kong protests. China's grand plan is to use a combination of economic and soft power to exert dominance and to shape U.S. perception. Its "grand plan" to defeat the U.S. is pretty explicit in its goals. They declared war on us a while back. We are just now catching up to that reality.

Apr 12, 2020 - 11:09am
earthwalker7:

let's evaluate your proposal:

>1. Cancel interest payments on all debt owed to China.

and destroy faith and credit of US treasuries, and our stellar reputation built over 200 years. Really? Like, really really?


Agree. His suggestion regarding the US defaulting on its debt is mind boggling.
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Most Helpful
Apr 12, 2020 - 9:47am

We can't really change China's behavior. We can only address our own shortcomings.

Ever tried to change someone else's deeply ingrained behavior? Really hard to do. It's much easier to change your own behavior and responses to those actions. Put it another way, whenever you point a finger at someone else, you have 4 fingers pointing back at you.

China screwed over the world by not being forthcoming about the virus, that's true. The world lost 6 critical weeks. HOWEVER even after the Chinese alerted the world of the problem, most Western governments did nothing. The West had an 8 week running head start and did fuckall.

Trump called it a hoax, told people wearing a mask was optional and that he himself wouldn't do it, kept stating the virus would disappear like magic in April, etc. UK decided to do fuckall about the virus. Italy adopted no quarantines until it's too late.

Smart countries - Hong Kong, Singapore, Korea, Israel - put in place measures to quarantine and isolate. That's how big boys deal with viruses.

Children point fingers, adults deal with problems.

The Chinese meat system is deplorable (import of exotic animals, slaughtering animals in unsanitary conditions in the middle of the city, etc.). But China will NEVER stop the practice of importing exotic animals for food and traditional Chinese medicine, and it's not going to clean up its meat trade. The more the world rails against them, the more the leadership will use it as a tool for galvanizing popular support. SARS hit China hard, and the government didn't do anything because it would be unpopular to do so, and risk CCP control over the populace. COVID is no different. Real change on China's part is unlikely especially if they feel pressured by outside governments.

Instead we in US have to be smarter about how to deal with epidemics. We can't blame ass-backwards governments like the CCP. Diseases WILL keep coming to US shores, or even originate in the US. We have to be pragmatic about how we deal. We have to plan, do 'germ games', pattern our response infrastructure after US military, and when an epidemic starts we have to lock shit down early not put our heads in the sand. See talks by Bill Gates on how we need to build and train an epidemic response system.

Apr 12, 2020 - 11:18am
earthwalker7:

Trump called it a hoax, told people wearing a mask was optional and that he himself wouldn't do it, kept stating the virus would disappear like magic in April, etc.

Smart countries - Hong Kong, Singapore, Korea, Israel - put in place measures to quarantine and isolate. That's how big boys deal with viruses.

Children point fingers, adults deal with problems.


Totally agree. The Potus did not cause the economic problems we have now but he did not exhibit the kind of leadership you need during a crisis.

Great quote about "children pointing fingers and adults dealing with problems". Your quote accurately describes the POTUS's behavior in many situations. The buck does not stop with this POTUS. He does not take responsibility for making bad decisions or making inappropriate comments. Instead, he often blames others.

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Apr 12, 2020 - 9:54am

Perhaps US businesses should launch a class-action lawsuit against the Trump administration for his lies, false claims, sandbagging the CDC and its efforts, misdirection and his dismantling of the White House epidemic team. He has cost lives and blew the legs off of the US economy. We had an 8-week running head start to deal with the virus. It took months to reach US shores. Doing fuckall and calling it a hoax is just breathtakingly beefheaded.

  • Analyst 1 in RE - Comm
Apr 13, 2020 - 1:59am

We had an 8 week running head start? How were we supposed to know how bad it was going to be when we are getting limited info from China and they kick out several journalists out of the country and censor everything that was going on?

Apr 12, 2020 - 10:30am

BTW, the current narrative in China is that this virus was of US or Australian origin. The Chinese media has been running with the story that this is a US biological weapon that was unleashed on China by a recent military delegation from US that had been visiting China. That's of course insane horseshit, but just watch, we may end up seeing both nations at odds for a while. US can only really sue China in The Hague, and China can countersue. But there's a problem - there is the principle of sovereign exemption - by which nations cannot really be held accountable. It's a principle first claimed by.... wait for it... the USA.

Apr 12, 2020 - 11:19am

No I think this nonsense on where it originated will end soon.

Just a timeline of how this bs started:
Jan 30: Republican senator Tom Cotton claimed that this virus came from a bio-lab in Wuhan. China didn't have time to deal with this bs conspiracy theory then.
Mar 9: Republican house minority leader Kevin McCarthy called the virus "Chinese Coronavirus". He is the first one to call COVID 19 "Chinese virus", way before Trump did.
Mar 12: As a retaliation, this guy from the Chinese foreign ministry tweeted the conspiracy theory that the virus was brought to China by US soldiers.

Then the rest is history, Trump started calling it the Chinese virus, as a retaliation aganst what the Chinese foreign ministry guy tweeted.

Now that Trump has retreated from calling it the Chinese virus, the CCP has stopped this US-soldier narrative. Even the Chinese ambassador to the US said this is baseless.

Of course there is still a small group of Chinese people who believe that this came from the US, but who cares about them?

Apr 12, 2020 - 10:47am
Winnie the Flu:

Potential suggestions:

  1. Cancel interest payments on all debt owed to China.

Retaliation against China would only make sense if we knew that the government of China intentionally tried to inflict harm on the US.

Cancelling interest payments on the US Treasuries purchased by China would be the equivalent of the US defaulting on its debt, which would hurt the US. They might respond by selling all their US debt, causing prices to fall and rates to rise. Also, S&P and or Moody's might downgrade our debt if we intentionally default.

  • 3
Apr 12, 2020 - 11:06pm

I'm not sure intention is the only test of fault. Of course, IF there was mens rea that would be a serious war-like action. But good luck proving mens rea. So instead we have to think whether or not China was negligent under WHO regulations. I would argue they were grossly negligent, but in any case, how can you prove it? China encountered a previously-unknown virus. They did not know of its severity. It took them 6 weeks to report to WHO, but one can either argue negligence or innocent ignorance in the face of an unknown virus?

Apr 13, 2020 - 9:08am
earthwalker7:

I'm not sure intention is the only test of fault.

Your guess might be better than mine. The further I get from investment topics, the less insightful my comments are likely to be.

  • Intern in IB - Cov
Apr 12, 2020 - 11:45am

It's so ridiculously interesting to see you guys' "strategies" against China. We are bankers and I don't wanna emphasize how much profit we could earn from doing business with China. Retaliation will hurt both countries, and it shouldn't be the direction the world goes to. Also, do u guys seriously think China is so weak and they won't retaliate us. please refer to the trade war. I didn't see it is a complete win of US.

  • Intern in IB - Cov
Apr 12, 2020 - 11:54am

Honestly, I do think the tragedy is the result of the incompetence of our government. We didn't act early. Please be reasoning, guys. In Feb and early March, you saw how Trump shifted his attitude but everything about the severe pandemic had been clear at that time. Underestimation is the main reason and it's also why China missed the 6 weeks in Dec and Jan. Same logic here. It is novel and nobody knew about it at that time. Do you think people immediately know how serious the illness is after the first case was confirmed? Not realistic, right? Peaceful please. Win Win is what the US and China could thrive.

Apr 12, 2020 - 9:32pm

the death rate in the US is 4%. this pandemic is not serve stop watching the news. what comes of this is world wide vaccines, tracking people (more so than they do now), and more laws imposed to make us 'safe'. blaming trump for not shutting down is such a low IQ statement, turn off the news.

Apr 12, 2020 - 10:45pm
Intern in IB - Ind:

Honestly, I do think the tragedy is the result of the incompetence of our government. We didn't act early. Please be reasoning, guys. In Feb and early March, you saw how Trump shifted his attitude but everything about the severe pandemic had been clear at that time. Underestimation is the main reason and it's also why China missed the 6 weeks in Dec and Jan. Same logic here. It is novel and nobody knew about it at that time. Do you think people immediately know how serious the illness is after the first case was confirmed? Not realistic, right? Peaceful please. Win Win is what the US and China could thrive.

Given how bad your grammar is, it's pretty obvious that you are Chinese and a supporter of the CCP.

The source country was China; hence, it was their responsibility to alert the global community as soon as possible, prevent its citizens from traveling abroad, and cooperate with other countries' institutions such as CDC. Not only did China do those things, they deliberately lied to the WHO and suppressed dissident voices.

Trump created the virus task force in late January and implemented the China travel ban on January 31st. Democrats of course attacked the decision as "xenophobic." Most media outlets and politicians missed the boat on this, as the conventional wisdom throughout February and even early March was that the virus was not a huge problem and that people should not let it change their daily lives. NYC's DeBlasio and NYC officials were telling residents in early March to proceed with business as usual and even encouraged them to attend a parade in Chinatown. It is true that Trump used rosy rhetoric in February, but given the dearth of known cases and deaths in the U.S. at that time, it would not have made sense for him to use alarmist language and rile the people up into a state of panic (regardless of what he does, the media will attack him). However, when the facts on the ground changed, Trump adapted and shifted his tone. He took aggressive actions to produce the supplies needed, including invoking the Defense Production Act. Was Trump's response perfect? Of course not. But no President's response is going to be perfect. Not even the President possesses perfect hindsight and perfect information.

There is no moral equivalence between the U.S. and communist China and no equivalence between Trump and Xi. China is the culprit of this pandemic and must pay a very heavy price for its crimes.

Apr 12, 2020 - 11:18pm

CDC was aware on Jan 3rd.

I agree with some of the things you said, but your comments also contain lots of misinformation. I have time to point those out one by one, but if you are not interested in having a discussion because I'm a shill, then there's no need. Let me know.

I'm also interested in your experience with CCP, because plenty of people here hate CCP, but their reasoning makes sense sometimes. You on the other hand, seem to have tons of misunderstanding and misinformation of China, not sure if you are deliberately spreading those lies or are you just not aware?

Apr 12, 2020 - 11:22pm

Ooookay, good luck with that. The day you figure out how to get someone else to change, you tell me. I've got a wife to adjust.

Until then, try learning to be a grown up. Real leadership is as Jocko Willink says - 'Extreme Ownership'. The buck stops at the POTUS. And every leader in office needs to sit and think "What can I do to own this, to own the response."

Trump didn't do jack shit. He did NOT put in place a real travel ban or quarantine. Korea, HK, SG, Israel, Taiwan, Korea - - they shut those borders tight. China shut whole cities down. The US only blocked travel access to people who had been in China in the past 2 weeks. Don't try to re-write history to suit your narrative.

Despite having a 2 month head start, knowing a severe epidemic is coming, and doing fuckall. That's what the Trump administration did. Deny, obfuscate, sandbag experts, and wishful-think. Sorry, no dice. Trump administration knew a crisis was coming for months and didn't act. There were members in the Senate and in the actual Trump Administration that warned him, but he was like "It's handled, it's just localized to China, our piddly miniscule travel ban can handle it." And later "I don't bear any responsibility." It's the opposite of 'extreme ownership' - it's 'extreme abdication of responsibility'.

What a child. The fish stinks from the head. It's what you get when you take a life-long con-artist and serial mis-manager of businesses and put him in a position of real responsibility. Tweeting bullshit isn't governing.

In sum: It's fairly stupid to point fingers externally frankly, when the only person you can truly lead and change is yourself. .

  • Associate 2 in IB - Gen
Apr 12, 2020 - 1:58pm

It is always funny to see people characterize CCP as Darth Vader and the Chinese people as the stormtroopers. While not a fun of authoritarian regimes, I would challenge anyone who thinks perfect control of information can be achieved anywhere in today's age, and the Chinese government is as beholden, if not more, to the court of public opinion as any other governments. The only things we should fear are ignorance, prejudice and fear itself.

Apr 12, 2020 - 10:46pm

Very few people on this website have ever stepped foot in China, much less have done business there. Just ignore this nonsense.

Be excellent to each other, and party on, dudes.
  • 1
  • Analyst 3+ in PE - Other
Apr 12, 2020 - 5:56pm

Production has been shifting gradually over the years.

However, China is the very few countries in Asia that offers good infrastructure and high quality labor at affordable price.

Companies have their R&D centre in China next to production plants and they hire university grads in China to do the heavy lifting. You don't find this common in Vietnam/Thailand. Also, good luck with occasionally power cuts and poor ports/toll roads in other countries.

Instead of 100% eliminating China supply chain, you should just consider shifting strategic ones out and diversify some parts.

And lastly I don't buy this blame China bs. Ever heard of force majeure? I don't see things would be any better had it happened in some other developing countries that also connect closely to the world (Brazil/Turkey/Chile/Mexico/etc,)

Apr 12, 2020 - 8:02pm

I personally think the best thing to do is un-neuter Japan from the WWII restrictions placed on them and give china another rival in the immediate vicinity as well as strong ties with india and other asian countries.

Then CIA ops to sour any relationships between Russia and China

Array
  • 1
Apr 12, 2020 - 8:51pm

Give them the Kardashians

What concert costs 45 cents? 50 Cent feat. Nickelback.

  • 4
Apr 12, 2020 - 10:48pm

Precisely how much blame do you put on Donald Trump, who did nothing about the coronavirus until it was too late?

Signed, concerned Republican.

Be excellent to each other, and party on, dudes.
  • 3
Apr 13, 2020 - 9:08am

Death per capita are worse in France, Italy, Spain etc. All countries that have so called oh-government of experts.

Want anyone that did better and is not East Asian? Hungary, Poland etc.

Never discuss with idiots, first they drag you at their level, then they beat you with experience.

Apr 13, 2020 - 12:18am

The United States should retaliate by starting a rumor that China smells. I bet that would really hurt China's self esteem

I’m a fun guy. Obviously I love the game of basketball. I mean there’s more questions you have to ask me in order for me to tell you about myself. I'm not just gonna give you a whole spill... I mean, I don't even know where you're sitting at

  • Prospect in IB-M&A
Apr 13, 2020 - 1:20am

idk why they are saying u r AsianAmerica. if so and u still hates China, I must say... i feel bad for you looking at Chinese economy boom and international Chinese get rich while u r poor and could never got hot girls

  • Analyst 3+ in HF - EquityHedge
Apr 13, 2020 - 9:09am

You do realize that USA has been selling arms to Taiwan since the end of WW2? Also, despite not having an official embassy there USA is literally one of their biggest supporters? And this has nothing to do with democracy, for most of its history Taiwan was under a military dictatorship? It was only in the 1990's that it became democratic. Also, western media tends to portray Taiwan as pro-independence but if you actually look at polls public opinion is actually quite split. There's significant economic, cultural, and familial ties between mainland China and Taiwan.

Apr 13, 2020 - 9:08am

I usually retaliate against China by offering other solutions. China is a pain in the ass to clean, it doesn't match anything in the house, and it's super fragile. worse, it requires its own storage chest, the "china cabinet," which is an enormous waste of space and craftsmanship. better to have simple dishware and some nice art than a clunky piece of furniture and some grandma plates. the best defense I've found against china is handheld fare - grinders, pitas, baguettes, pizza, all good defenses. alternatively, you could spend your money on things other than china. lately I've been indulging in merino wool socks, military books, and various seeds for the garden, all are more utilitarian and lower maintenance than china.

I hope this perspective helps.

Apr 13, 2020 - 9:08am

if any of the ingenious retaliatory measures listed here are taken, I guarantee YOUR 401K will suffer more than the Chinese Economy in general.

just remember a large percent of SP500 companies depend on the Chinese economy to report earnings.

what? cancel debt? you mean basically default on US Treasury??? LOL as if that would not destroy US Economy.

guess not many people with real finance knowledge in WSO after all

Array
  • 1
Apr 13, 2020 - 9:08am

And now the 'Council to Re-Open America' is established without a single public health expert, but they found room for Ivanka and Jared to join their umpteenth task force. These same people cry about Hunter Biden but lick Trump's boots as he installs his family into every corner of government.

Just beyond fucking embarrassing for those of you who continue to support this administration. w

"I don't know how to explain to you that you should care about other people."

  • 4
  • 2
Apr 13, 2020 - 9:08am

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Never discuss with idiots, first they drag you at their level, then they beat you with experience.

Apr 13, 2020 - 9:08am

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Never discuss with idiots, first they drag you at their level, then they beat you with experience.

Apr 13, 2020 - 9:08am

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