How to get a back office job?
I know the back office is absolutely hated on this forum but maybe someone can help.
When I go onto LinkedIn and search for operations/compliance jobs, they all require previous work experience for the analyst level. So my question is, how does one get a back office job straight out of undergrad (from a non-target)? They seem way more selective than everyone makes it seem.
Any help is appreciated. Also, sorry for posting in the IBD forum, just seemed like a good resource since many people on WSO are currently working in back office jobs.
"Back office" is just too broad for us to help you. Some have a clearer path (straight out of school) than others but it depends on which BO you are looking at. Provide more info and it will be easier to help you.
I was thinking maybe securities compliance or a financial controller, GS in NY/NJ would be my preference. I'm thinking of spending a decade or two climbing the ranks and then moving to F500 corporate finance.
There are "target" schools for back office jobs so are you at a non-target for IB but a target for BO? Assuming you're at a non-target for BO, It would depend on what you're aiming for. Of course with any role, it's easier to get if you have a connection. More popular spots like around trading are more competitive and you can try networking to get your resume passed along.
For unpopular/non-product or real finance related spots that don't require much knowledge, you just need to look trainable/hardworking so HR will pass you along (no finance knowledge necessary). I've seen people with no finance experience/degrees landing these roles, so all hope is not lost. What are the kinds of things you're looking?
I currently go to Arizona State at the W.P. Carey School of Business, which apparently Goldman Sachs recruits from (not sure if that makes us a target for BO). I'm thinking of a position with actual finance applicability to the job. I've noticed there are some alumni in SLC but I'm dead set on NY/NJ.
My end goal is to work in F500 corporate finance or maybe rebrand myself with a top 20 MBA. I currently have a 3.7 GPA.
Target schools for BO??? You sure about that?
I’m BO at a BB and I can assure you that there’s people from all kinds of schools and backgrounds. Landing a BO job is all about filling a need they have; you can have any school on your resume as long as you have a skill they need. I have simply never heard of targets for BO
Is commercial banking BO?
Any group that does on-campus recruiting will have target schools.
Yes I am sure because I know for ops they have specific schools they do recruiting for. I'm also BO at BB. Does that mean it's impossible to break in outside of those schools? Of course not but it seems like op is still in school so I'm thinking he'd like to get into the analyst program or something like that. The more finance related the role he's seeking, the pickier they will/can be.
How to break into back office... idk maybe just don't be talented in anything and be satisfied with accomplishing nothing your entire career? Also have low financial knowledge and use the acorn or robinhood app for "trading." Make sure you get your news from seeking alpha.
Who said I want to spend my entire career there? From what I've heard it can be a good starting point. Maybe I want to work for the SEC or FINRA later on?
lol stop
Not all of us are here to work 100+ hour weeks. Maybe some of us want a good work/life balance, so don't shit on us because our goals may be different.
I was merely asking a serious question that I'm curious about. I can't stand how stuck up some of the people are on here.
How To Appear More "Interested" In BO Positions? (Originally Posted: 05/17/2012)
Background - Graduated last Friday. Can't afford to wait around for the "perfect" role, taking what I can get.
I've had a couple BO interviews so far and I'm pretty sure it's obvious I'm not truly interested but instead just trying to get a job.
I have an interview set up for a compliance position next week. I do fine until I get asked the "So why XXXXX position". Does anyone have some standard cheesy answer that usually works in this scenario? I can answer why AM/ER/Corp Fin but completely blank on BO positions
If you're having a hard time with that question, you may want to reconsider. Imo, there's nothing worse than waking up every morning hating what you do. Is there no way you can land some ER or AM position at a boutique? I'd take that over a BO compliance gig at a BB but that's just my .02
My lease ends July 31st and after that I'm on my own. Trust me, I'll take ER/AM/Corp Fin over BO but I'm not going to turn down a BO offer with nothing in hand. I'm still currently sending resumes everywhere and will continue until I get the best possible offer by july
No way am I moving back in with my parents in bum fuck egypt
Honesty might be the best policy. You want to have this position because you want to be in banking. If they press you about why specifically you want this BO position, say your goal is to build a career in banking, and that you'll work your butt off in this position just for the opportunity to be in the industry. Telling them that this is a great opportunity is completely true - you wouldn't be wanting this position if it wasn't the greatest opportunity you have at the moment.
Good luck turning this into something better. Learn what you can from where you are. At least a BO role will give you more time to study for the CFA, or whatever else you choose to do to jumpstart your career.
I'm going to go ahead and say that this is really bad advice and have to comletely disagree. I used to interview people for BO jobs at a BB bank and someone who comes in with the "honest" approach you list above is automatically done before I can get them out of the room. No compliance department wants an FT employee that is not looking(or at least pretending to look) at this as a career option and will work to advance themselves. If I was looking for someone like what you list above, I would look through a temp agency.
Now, to respond to the OP, if this is all you have and your situation does not allow you to remain unemployed while lookin for jobs and you absolutely NEED the compliance gig, you better go into the interview and figure out how you can convince them that this is he right position for you, (which unfortunately you will need to figure out on your own).
Would I get into the back office? (Originally Posted: 06/05/2015)
If I graduate with a 2:2 degree in a stem subject, will I still be able to get into Operations at an Investment bank?
What's the US equivalent of a 2:2?
That is a tough question because in the uk the degree classification is 1st then a 2:1, 2:2, 3rd then finally fail so it is hard to compare. I suppose it could be thought of as being below the cut off point because majority of employers was a 2:1 or above.
One or two investment banks ask you to tick a box saying you have achieved a 2:1 or above before you start your application. If you do not tick it then your application terminates. So for arguments sake, lets say 2.75 gpa.
Unfortunately not. The cut off is usually a 2:1. I would do a masters if I had got a 2:2.
Maybe switch career paths. IB back office won't be very fulfilling for you given your prior posts in which you express a strong interest in front office positions.
Would I get into FO position with 2:2 though? To get into Fo I have two options. Work in BO then network like hell or maybe go so mba or something and get into FO. I am interning at the one of the best (if not the best) engineering company this summer and there is a very high chance I will be able to get a job there. So my other option is to work at this firm for 2 years (length of program) then move over into a highly quant role at a bank.
I work in BO right now and my team actually works on some interesting projects. At the end of the day, yeah it sucks compared to FO but if you actually want to get in I think you can, especially if you know somebody. There are some true clowns in BB BO just because of the sheer size of the organization. Sometimes I wonder how certain people actually passed the interview stage lol
I know a senior VP so I am hoping it should be ok.
Oooooh. Please do share some stories.
Since you're in BO wanna help me out?
How did you get on applying for operations roles? Did you manage to get past the 2:1 barrier on the applications?
Is it hard to get a BO job right now? (Originally Posted: 12/07/2011)
Assuming one wanted to get a job doing something along the lines of trade settlement (not for the purpose of trying to move to the FO, just because they thought it was an intrinsically desirable position), are such jobs becoming increasingly scarce as trading jobs themselves are being cut and trading volumes decline? Even if the number of BO jobs is remaining stable, is it likely that recently laid off traders are flooding into these jobs in the hopes of networking their way back to the FO? Oh, and one more question (because I'm a noob), are entry level BO jobs only available at banks, or do hedge funds also hire entry level BO employees?
Any insight on this from the people in the trenches would be greatly appreciated.
I'd say it's a litle more difficult than usual to get any job @ a BB right now. A lot of BBs are going the contractor route for BO jobs (aka hiring workers on 3-6 months temp to perm contracts with no benefits and hourly pay). It's less risk on their part in a time when they don't know where the markets are exactly heading.
You talk about trade settlements as if it is a major part of BO jobs @ BBs, while actually it is only a small part of the BO/MO. There are a plethora of compliance, paper pushers, and adminstrative related jobs that all fall into BO. From what I have seen, it is extremely hard to get a BO job that involves being on the trading floor if you are entry level (such as trade support/trade settlement). And yes, HF hire trade support guys but they usually prefer at least 1 year of experience @ a BB on the trading floor. The alternative is knowing somebody @ a HF.
And no, I don't think traders are taking BO roles. I just don't see it happening. They'd rather go trade their own capital or go consulting than stoop down to a BO job. Once you work FO, I don't think you every really go back to working below that (unless you're nuts).
Interesting. Do hedge funds also hire for the "plethora of compliance, paper pushers, and adminstrative related jobs that all fall into BO"?
Also to the O.P, B.O jobs are hard to come by...I go to a non-target and my school places very well in B.O and M.O and only three banks, UBS, MS AND JPM recruited for B.O...MS upstate NY and UBS AND JPM in NYC.. Didn't hear back from anyone...
Man carefully research that shit before doing this whole school thing. Who knows what kind of clauses they have to retain you and make sure people don't try to do what you think is so easy to do. You will either be stuck there or you will be put on some kind of a vesting schedule and be forced to pay back some of that tuition.
UFO, I am a senior in college, but I have heard that most companies that pay for your tuition will require you too say for a few years before you could leave or you would have to pay it back. If your looking to get back in recruiting from NYU or Columbia, i would go full time and take the loans. I am pretty sure if you decide to go into banking or consulting you will make enough money to pay your loans back in no time..
Back to the original conversation: hiring in BO / MO
Hiring is mostly over for this year and there were slim pickings. One of the newbies where I work came from a BB BO contract position and he really isn't a very impressive candidate. Try for a temp position and work your butt off, and it's likely they'll keep you around...then start networking and go for the jump to FO if that's your goal.
Back-office jobs are very hard to get right now, just like all other finance jobs. Firms that are firing massively in the front office generally dont go on back-office hiring sprees. Also, benefits such as education payment become much more difficult in this environment...no firm is going to let you game them by running up a huge education bill and then leaving. I am not sure that ever really was possible but especially not now.
I know one guy moved from BO to be a trader and he has been working in the BO for 2-3 years. It is definitively possible. Good luck!
I work in the BO of a BB so I'll give you my observations. As someone else mentioned, we are going the temp route to fill in attrition. This isn't bad, as the temps make pretty good money and we actually want to bring them on full time if it weren't for a bit of a hiring freeze.
Another thing to consider is that a lot of BO roles, both at banks and hedge funds, are being outsourced. India has a bit of an industry performing BO functions. Outsourcing BO jobs is easy savings, because in general BO functions can be performed by anyone. Those jobs aren't coming back.
If you take these 2 points into consideration, it means limited opportunity to break in. But in all honestly, don't go into BO. People generally say Ops people don't work a lot, but in my office about 30% work 9-5, 60% work 8-6, and the other 10% end up working 7-7. Not the same as IB, but you still have to sit there 10 hours doing boring work. Also, you will not gain any technical skills except in some rare circumstances when you join a team that actually does something somewhat interesting. It's tough to break out of Ops once you start working in Ops.
I would say that it is extremely hard. I get a 5k bonus for anyone that I suggest who gets hired FT at the analyst or associate level. In 2011 I have suggested 7 people for MO/BO roles, only one person was selected to interview and did not get a job. All 7 people I thought had very solid resumes and were decent to good fits for the roles I had recommended them for.
All together on my team (MO at a tier 1 BB) we hired only one person all year, and she was an intern last year, and her resume destroys most resumes Ive seen people post on here for critique who have IB aspirations.
All in all, very difficult in this environment.
Like I said before, I really do think BBs are starting to hire BO on a temp/perm contract basis thru recruiting companies. I work MO and a lot of those around me are newly recruited 3-6 month contractors. Interestingly enough, the BBs tend to keep a lot of these individuals as perm employees after the contract. I really do think that this is a new hiring method for lower skilled BB workers that is here to stay. It doesn't take a genius to see what advantages this brings the bank.. especially with the new employee health care standards looming in the future.
lol
BO is getting outsourced and automated to death. My neighbor had about 100 people under him, and ran the BO in PWM. They got rid of the entire area. He did end up getting a similar role for another BB, but he had to go where the jobs were and moved to a small city in the midwest. He didn't mind moving, as he had a comparable salary where he could live like a king. I was also always fairly astonished that his title was only VP when he had a small army under him.
There will always be some "touch" to the BO, but automation is trying really hard to eliminate that as much as possible. This is the white collar version of the hollowing of the middle class.
Voluptatibus quisquam expedita fugiat possimus adipisci. Totam dolore dolorem velit illum quo illum velit perferendis. Et consequatur vero nostrum voluptatem et quos. Et illo aliquid quam.
Aspernatur officiis illo et vel delectus. Ut voluptatem perspiciatis accusamus voluptas delectus nobis. Atque doloremque expedita dolore voluptates.
Vero aliquam quod tempore impedit earum voluptatem quas. Molestiae incidunt atque autem alias. Repellendus neque at est. Reiciendis non tempore corporis aperiam.
See All Comments - 100% Free
WSO depends on everyone being able to pitch in when they know something. Unlock with your email and get bonus: 6 financial modeling lessons free ($199 value)
or Unlock with your social account...
Consequuntur iure iusto distinctio sed ut nihil. Quis aliquam doloremque perspiciatis necessitatibus animi esse. Voluptatibus esse itaque odio aut neque. At ea ut possimus consequuntur quibusdam voluptates. Sunt quo voluptatem aliquam reiciendis distinctio qui.
Unde adipisci culpa quis neque eum numquam laborum. Neque pariatur ducimus fuga dolorum ducimus.
Voluptates odit deserunt esse sequi praesentium placeat. Nihil rerum enim sit aliquid eum sequi. Et libero nemo minima vero reiciendis. Nisi mollitia sit eaque eum hic veritatis ducimus.
Aut quasi ut eligendi unde et non. Mollitia id ullam voluptas commodi qui. Sequi aperiam laborum dolorum eum. Ea minima iure ea sint eius debitis consectetur.
Blanditiis eos adipisci tempora saepe voluptatem. Quia architecto tempora laborum rerum. Cum et impedit cum itaque sapiente optio. Quo et nostrum explicabo aut eius qui dignissimos. Adipisci velit quam eos quas sunt. Esse voluptatibus quisquam in molestias. Eum officiis eum quidem aut ullam omnis est.
Et blanditiis et odit rem iste. Et labore exercitationem qui omnis in enim tenetur. Et eaque et amet laudantium inventore natus blanditiis.
Dolores qui alias quis itaque id ipsam repellat. Est occaecati fuga consequatur quo et atque illo. Amet quidem quasi possimus omnis quia iusto.
Ea fuga ea vel laudantium suscipit voluptas tenetur nisi. Eius ea rerum atque.