How to Break into the Hedge Fund Industry

TommyLaLa's picture
Rank: Chimp | banana points 7

Hi,

I am a web designer and would like to cater my services towards hedge fund companies. Can anyone be so kind and advise how I can reach potential new hedge funds and create their website for them? Perhaps website and transition to IT service.

Your help is greatly appreciated.

Thank you

Tommy

Comments (160)

Jul 24, 2017

Most hedge funds will already have state of the art websites (its 2017), but you can utilize LinkedIn to look for open IT positions at hedge funds. You should also try going to diff hedge funds websites in their "Career" section to look for job postings or to submit an application.

Jul 26, 2017

Why not just start your own fund?

Jul 26, 2017

The honest quantitative answer is that your chances are low.
I have to say that my qualitative answer based on your post is also low.
The reasoning behind that is that:
1) While (like most people on here) you say you "Have the passion for Finance, stocks, etcetc" you don't really go into why/how this manifests in you having an actual knack for investing;
2) This is stereotyping, so forgive me if I'm off-base, but "finance" and "sports agent" are two of the classic "I think that would be cool and I perceive that people in those fields make a lot of money" answers to what you want to do with for a career, and they aren't really very similar in terms of what sorts of skill-sets/personalities are a natural fit.

It's entirely possible my qualitative portion is wrong, and if you have any additional thoughts/questions about the industry there are people here who can help you get answers and perspectives.

Jul 26, 2017
Kenny_Powers_CFA:

The honest quantitative answer is that your chances are low.

I have to say that my qualitative answer based on your post is also low.

The reasoning behind that is that:

1) While (like most people on here) you say you "Have the passion for Finance, stocks, etcetc" you don't really go into why/how this manifests in you having an actual knack for investing;

2) This is stereotyping, so forgive me if I'm off-base, but "finance" and "sports agent" are two of the classic "I think that would be cool and I perceive that people in those fields make a lot of money" answers to what you want to do with for a career, and they aren't really very similar in terms of what sorts of skill-sets/personalities are a natural fit.

It's entirely possible my qualitative portion is wrong, and if you have any additional thoughts/questions about the industry there are people here who can help you get answers and perspectives.

U said something thats veryyyyy important and I want to clear up in my post. Thats the sports agent thing, I was hesitant to even include that into my first post for the exact reason you said and I completely agree with you. It is a career that people always look at like "I wouldnt mind being Ari Gold." with no real concept that most agents represent players you've never heard of, arent making millions, and work insane hours / schedules for back ups in an extremely competitive field. Or the idea that you dump thousands of $$$ into players getting their training, housing, meals, etc in perfect order and they might not ever even make the league and pay you back. My reason for wanting to be in the sports agent business I feel is a tad different due to my conversations with friends that are going to be in some of the highest athletic levels, already in the field, and generally just things I rather not discuss here, but by NO means do I think of being a sports agent as a "im gonna b ballin with athletes at club LIV in miami with tons of women."

Maybe I dont have the finance passion like some people how could i ever b certain? All i know is that this itch to switch my major to finance keeps getting stronger and the single thing holding me back is the idea that I went to such a terrible school ill end up being a teller at bank of america (sarcasm.... a little lol). If I could go back I would have definitely chosen a better school.

Besides that the first part of your post is very interesting, maybe because I enjoy it theoretically and the idea of investing doesnt mean I would be good at it? I dont think you can truly know until your own ability until you actually invest. But basically you answer is kind of my biggest fear, that is my chances probably are very low.

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Jul 26, 2017

I can say that in terms of going to a non-target school you shouldn't worry too much, if you network your ass off and are determined to land an internship or something relevant to the field then your chances will be much higher. However, based off your post it doesn't seem like you really understand the HF industry and where you could possibly fit in. Anyway, I went to a completely non-target liberal arts college and graduated with a shit GPA and a B.A. econ degree, but I still was able to land an entry-level analyst position for a hedge fund about 2 months after graduation. From my experience, the best advice I can give would be to do some top-down research and figure out where you fit in. By this I mean, start researching the HF industry as a whole, for example, get a basic understanding of all the different types of hedge funds and the strategies that they specialize in. Once you have that basic understanding, see which types of strategies interest you. Next would be to figure out if you want to be an analyst or a trader, a good place to start is understanding the basic differences between technical and fundamental analysis. Next you should do as much research as possible on the assets that interest you (equities, fixed income, derivatives etc..) That was just a very general few steps of advice, but the most important is to understand what HF's do and the different strategies that they employ.

There are tons of people that say they have a "passion for finance/stocks", therefore, I wouldn't ever say that phrase again, especially on an interview or to a possible connect. You should also do some research on the private equity industry, still hard to break into, but since it seems like you're unsure as to what kind of investing you want to do then it probably wouldn't hurt to look into.

Last thing, don't feel discouraged if people on this forum say you don't have a chance, just take it as a sign that you still have a lot of research and work to do. Remember, all it takes is that one person to say yes and give you a chance.

Jul 26, 2017
quixoticelixer:

I can say that in terms of going to a non-target school you shouldn't worry too much, if you network your ass off and are determined to land an internship or something relevant to the field then your chances will be much higher. However, based off your post it doesn't seem like you really understand the HF industry and where you could possibly fit in. Anyway, I went to a completely non-target liberal arts college and graduated with a shit GPA and a B.A. econ degree, but I still was able to land an entry-level analyst position for a hedge fund about 2 months after graduation. From my experience, the best advice I can give would be to do some top-down research and figure out where you fit in. By this I mean, start researching the HF industry as a whole, for example, get a basic understanding of all the different types of hedge funds and the strategies that they specialize in. Once you have that basic understanding, see which types of strategies interest you. Next would be to figure out if you want to be an analyst or a trader, a good place to start is understanding the basic differences between technical and fundamental analysis. Next you should do as much research as possible on the assets that interest you (equities, fixed income, derivatives etc..) That was just a very general few steps of advice, but the most important is to understand what HF's do and the different strategies that they employ.

There are tons of people that say they have a "passion for finance/stocks", therefore, I wouldn't ever say that phrase again, especially on an interview or to a possible connect. You should also do some research on the private equity industry, still hard to break into, but since it seems like you're unsure as to what kind of investing you want to do then it probably wouldn't hurt to look into.

Last thing, don't feel discouraged if people on this forum say you don't have a chance, just take it as a sign that you still have a lot of research and work to do. Remember, all it takes is that one person to say yes and give you a chance.

Would you be willing to speak more to how you accomplished this?

"When you stop striving for perfection, you might as well be dead."

Jul 26, 2017

lol

Jul 26, 2017

I appreciate all the replies of course! I expect a few "you have no chance" people, and a few "anything is possible." As of right now I'm going to aim for a finance internship (willing to take anything at this point) this summer hopefully in San Francisco or Los Angeles. Next semester I was also thinking of possibly joining the Finance Business fraternity? What are peoples thoughts on this? Might be a good idea and easy way to meet some finance related minds since I dont really know any. I guess my last real question is when I graduate next fall semester what would be my optimal path, thats also realisitc?... Getting an IB job at GS is obviously a pipe dream and not reality. Coming from a non-target and being in California... Sometimes I think of moving to New York but in the back of my head I think "you could probably find jobs here, its not like the west coast doesnt deal with finance."

Thoughts? Am I crazy? Sometimes I just feel overwhelmed lol!

Jul 26, 2017

If I got a 2.12 GPA at my non-target my freshman year and, since then, I've interned at a hedge fund, 2 pe (buyout + pledge) funds, and 2 investment banks, and am currently talking to people at MMs and BBs (including Goldman IBD), then you can do it.

You just have to be RUTHLESSLY (calling up 400+ IBs till you get one offer) determined to change things like I was.

"Respect others in their view, and demand that they respect yours. Love your life, perfect your life, beautify all things in your life."

Jul 26, 2017
craigje1992:

If I got a 2.12 GPA at my non-target my freshman year and, since then, I've interned at a hedge fund, 2 pe (buyout + pledge) funds, and 2 investment banks, and am currently talking to people at MMs and BBs (including Goldman IBD), then you can do it.

You just have to be RUTHLESSLY (calling up 400+ IBs till you get one offer) determined to change things like I was.

Wow that's a come-from-behind if I ever heard of one. Awesome job. So, in your experience, ruthless cold calling works? Good to know.

"When you stop striving for perfection, you might as well be dead."

Jul 26, 2017

@ craigje1992

Talk about pounding the pavement. Well done man - two thumbs up.

Jul 26, 2017

To the original poster: there are certainly a bunch of people who have succeeded from more difficult backgrounds than yours (some are in this thread). I think they're right on "target" (see what I did there?) when they say network your ass off. However, I'm going to try and give you a bit more color.

I should preface this by saying I agree with Kenny Powers that your chances are low, but I hope you surprise me. The fact that you post things like "U" and "veryyyyy" on this forum causes me to think your chances are even lower than I would otherwise.

So, I'm going to try to imagine how you would get a job at my fund. As a preface, I should note we are not one of the snobbier places in the industry. First, you'd have to get your resume to us for consideration. This would be hard for you unless you had already worked at a place with a good reputation as we don't usually react well to cold emails, so you'd probably need to come through a head hunter. Head hunters will not give us your resume unless you have strong prior work experience given your college background. Failing a head hunter being wowed, if you knew someone well enough at my firm to submit your resume, that would work.

Now, let's imagine you got into a resume stack. Someone is going to screen the stack. They will probably ding you very quickly with a low-ish GPA from a low tier school in a major most of us consider to be a home for mediocre idiots as an undergrad. It is literally true that my admin has a degree that is a bit better than yours. The only way you can get out of an auto ding is to have worked somewhere or some collection of places that are incredibly impressive. Let's imagine you had a job that got over this hurdle. Whoever is doing the interviews is going to have to decide whether they want to interview you and, as spots are scarce, they will feel like they are taking a chance on giving you an interview instead of the guy from Princeton or MIT.

If you make it to the interview, whoever the analyst doing it is would give you an incredibly hard time. I would probably ask you very hard questions if I were your interviewer, because you would need to convince me you were not an idiot. The bar is, if anything, higher for you than it would be for the other candidates because you have such a non-typical background and if you get to second rounds and suck, people will trust me a bit less. I care about my reputation. So, this is to some extent a selfish maneuver. By the way, as I said, I think my firm and I are both relatively not snobby about schools, so this is a fairer shake than you'd get a lot of places or from some of my co-workers.

If you make it past first rounds, you have to really impress everyone you meet at your super day(s). Everyone, from the partners on down, will feel like we are taking a chance if we higher you, so you need to be very impressive just to have a shot.

All of that said, I think if you network your ass off and get great internships, you can make it work. Getting a great internship is probably easier in some ways and certainly more network driven than the process I just laid out above. The competency hurdles are lower.

Based on your post, and I don't intend to be rude, I'm guessing if I interviewed you for 10 minutes right now I'd conclude within the first 5 you were done and I'd send you home.

    • 1
Jul 26, 2017

First off its my mistake for posting "u" and "veryyy" and underestimating the formality of this forum I guess. I definitely feel like this has been the most "realistic" post that truly shows what I'm up against. To address your "I don't intend to be rude" comment, don't worry about it. I would be offended if someone held back information on the basis of possibly hurting my feelings. On top of that your entitled to your opinion just as much as I am. Appreciate the post and would have to say it's probably been my favorite response since I started the thread.

Jul 26, 2017

Good. I'm glad and I hope you're fired up. Go kill it, prove you deserve it and maybe someday I really will be interviewing you and you will last more than 10 minutes.

Also, just because I think it's useful for others and because I've heard the target vs. non-target debate often, the reason I think I'm being unusually fair is that if you impressed me in a first round interview, I would let you get to second rounds.

A friend from college (and I went to a good college) recently graduated from a top business school, but worked at a well regarded consulting firm before. He wanted to move into finance at a hedge fund (not mine). A guy interviewing him asked him nastily technical questions and, even though he probably answered them correctly, got dinged because he didn't have the profile they wanted in terms of work experience. That strikes me as a bit unreasonable. If you answered hard questions correctly so I believed you could do the job, I liked you and you impressed me for some reason, I would let you move on to subsequent rounds of interviews despite your educational background.

And, like I said, some people wouldn't.

Jul 26, 2017

If you really want something, go for it and don't stop till you get there. If your not in it 120%, you defenitely won't get there- il tell you that much.

Jul 26, 2017

Depends on the bank

Jul 26, 2017

Let's say top 5 BB's and top 5 boutiques

Jul 26, 2017
jackiejackiejackie:

Let's say top 5 BB's and top 5 boutiques

GS, probably FIG, then TMT
MS, M&A then probably tech
JPM, M&A
CS, financial sponsors
Citi, M&A
Barclays, maybe natural resources? idk

    • 4
Jul 26, 2017

I hate you.

Seriously though, the one with the best search bar. And the ability to spoon feed without spilling too much down ya face. Open wide, the aeroplane is coming.

    • 1
Jul 26, 2017

Lehman Tech

Jul 26, 2017

HF recruiting isn't as structured as PE. Recruiting doesn't happen every year at smaller funds, so a lot of it comes down to relationship and when you reach out to headhunters.

In my group, of the analysts the year above me, 3 went HF, 2 to PE, 1 to b-school, 1 stayed on. In my year, almost everyone else left for PE.

Jul 26, 2017

@"Solidarity" How about associates? can they make the move to hedge funds as well? or is it very unlikely?

Jul 26, 2017

Honestly, my gut says it's almost entirely dependent on where you're getting an MBA

Jul 26, 2017

Here is some info on my background: I'm starting my MBA at a finance school (HSW), been doing investment consulting at a reputable place for three years now, and have CFA. My undergrad was engineering at a top 10 engineering school.

Ideally I'd like to jump to HF right after business school, but for the strategies I am interested in (long short equities, or distressed opportunistic) they require either banking experience or some sort of experience where you are exposed to company or security valuation. I don't have that, hence my plan to do i banking for 2-3 years and learn this stuff. I can learn this stuff on my own but not sure hedge funds would take a chance on someone with no prior professional experience on that type of work.

Welcome your thoughts...

Jul 26, 2017

Do you invest?

Jul 26, 2017

BX r&r

Jul 26, 2017

I do, but in general asset classes (vs. picking stocks). I've started reading valuation books and plan to put together a few pitch books for stocks before I start business school.

Jul 26, 2017

Bump!

Jul 26, 2017

x

Jul 26, 2017

also interested

Jul 26, 2017

They have hedge funds in Canada?

Jul 26, 2017

Of course, but obviously its not as large as USA or in Europe.

Jul 26, 2017

Honestly there are probably fewer than 10 true hedge funds in Canada with decent amounts of AUM.

Jul 26, 2017

You're most likely correct. But that doesn't mean i can't work for 1 of them.

Jul 26, 2017

I am correct and I'm just tempering your expectations. Of those 10, I'd only want to work for 2-3.

Jul 26, 2017

I agree, it's hard for ranking but not too hard to find better one. Pick the best one by considering all the option and go for it.

Jul 26, 2017

So which would be the 3 - 4 top ones in your opinion(s)?

Jul 26, 2017

West face
Polar
Vertex one (don't actually know them but returns seem great)

Jul 26, 2017

Indeed not a lot of true hedge funds in Canada but you can find a list here: http://www.bankacareer.com/?countries=canada&citie...

For a list of funds in Canada: http://www.bankacareer.com/countries/canada/

And for any other country just use the map: http://www.bankacareer.com/funds-banks-world-map/

I hope it helps.

Jul 26, 2017

Thanks alot for this amigo. Looks like the boys will have to start networking in the US...

Jul 26, 2017

Recruiters, alumni, cold email, albourne village. There are plenty of resources out there.

Jul 26, 2017
rothyman:

Recruiters, alumni, cold email, albourne village. There are plenty of resources out there.

Do you need to be employed full-time to join the forum?

Jul 26, 2017

I've covered all but Albourne Village, very helpful site. Thanks!

Jul 26, 2017

I was with a Big 4 audit practice and I landed a non-accounting role at a hedge fund. A recruiter contacted me about it. They specifically wanted someone from a cpa background. Sometimes it's just luck...

Jul 26, 2017

HF and IB are really quite different. What is the job role you are looking for?

Jul 26, 2017
Jul 26, 2017

I landed a Private Equity Fund Services role in lower Manhattan.

Jul 26, 2017

it will be very tough.

to get into a hf

1) strong connection (family member. etc)
2) strong background (top ibd groups, top undergrad, etc)
3) luck?

I would suggest you develop your fundamentals by getting into IB first, unless you want to go to a macro fund which will require several years of exp on a desk at a BB first.

Jul 26, 2017

Well I got into PE and want to move to the front office. Any suggestions? What should be the time frame I stay at a place before i jump ship?

Jul 26, 2017

You are clearly missing the concept here and being way too vague. What is it that you want to do at an IB or HF? These are two completely separate animals.

...and two, what is that you do in PE?

Jul 26, 2017

Please excuse the year long break. Ideally what I am looking to be apart of is a Deal sourcing team. I've been attending PE/VC/Angel conferences through out NYC and I enjoy this aspect of the business. My current role has me at the end of the deals, I want to be involved from conception.

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Jul 26, 2017

Why don't you continue at houlihan and then move into hedge fund after a few years?

Jul 26, 2017

That was the plan at first, however I did not receive a full-time job offer. There were some complications after Houlihan Lokey acquired the investment bank that brought me on as an intern.

Jul 26, 2017

Are you a finance/accounting major?

Jul 26, 2017

Yeah. I'm a finance major.

Jul 26, 2017

I think the answer is that the difficulty of landing a HF job is dependent on a number of factors. First, not all BB analyst positions are equal. If you are coming from a top group vs a bad group odds of getting an HF job should be better.

Second, difficulty depends on the type of hedge fund you are trying to work for. If you want an analyst role at one of the top HFs, like Citadel, it is going to be considerably more difficult than a smaller shop.

Also, this question depends on what exact job you are looking for at a HF. If you want to be working in some sort of quant group, then you might need that math PHD which would make the job hard to land for most people. There are numerous different investment and trading strategies that demand different skills, so it would be easier to get a job in a strategy that matched the skills you built up as an IB analyst.

That's my general opinion.

www.sharpeinvesting.com

Jul 26, 2017

well, i think first off you have to have a genuine interest in financial markets or at least come across as you do.

  1. Get in with some headhunters / recruiters or post your resume in our Jobs section under Hedge Funds and anywhere else you can
  2. learn about the different hedge funds strategies - our Hedge Fund Forum is a good place to start
  3. When you interview, try to learn as much about that particular hedge fund as possible PRE interview. You want to be able to sell yourself based on the specific strategy they emply and why you would be a good fit.

Good Luck!

Jul 26, 2017

Good luck!

Jul 26, 2017

Hedge funds generally try to steal talent from other hedge funds, prop trading desks, sell-side research, and i-banking/consulting (for the very junior levels), in declining order. Knowing some of your background might be helpful to give more relevant advice, but here are a couple of thoughts regardless.

Even though it's the obvious first step in order to get your bases covered, I think it will actually be very difficult to find a good hedge fund position through a headhunter. Headhunters have very specific assignments and will not waste any time thinking about helping you. If you meet the criteria of a position they have in mind, then you're in luck and things will move forward; otherwise, you will get to the backburner.

One strategy that works -- and has worked for me -- is to contact alumni from your school's network who are in the field and ask them for advice in penetrating the industry. Never approach them and ask for a job or even an internship. Try to only get some advice and be sure to follow up (send an email every few months updating them on what you've been up to and, ideally following up on a comment of theirs during your initial discussion), build some goodwill, and eventually good things may come.

Keep in mind that hedge funds are a very closed circle -- most know each other, discuss ideas, etc. -- and constantly ask people within the network if they know of good guys. I was recently at an event and must have heard 5 hedge funds hiring, but they are not very active in their search. I mean, if another hedge fund recommends a guy they know (even if he's in i-banking, for example), they will look at him. Otherwise, they will just wait.

Another piece of advice is to include an investment idea writeup when you apply for a job. Even if you don't meet the exact qualifications, the PM may contact you if you have an interesting idea or if he just likes the way you think. I've heard a couple of people that got jobs that way. It works particularly well with smaller hedge funds, e.g., <$200mm assets.

Another thing to consider might be to join your local NYSSA chapter and then join their investment communities and attend some of their meetings. You will meet some likeminded people there. Don't feel an outsider, because many are after the same thing as you.

Hope that helps.

Jul 26, 2017

If you want to get a job at a hedge fund, you should first start out doing restructuring work for a creditor side i-bank like Houlihan, Lazard, Blackstone, etc.

Hedge funds invest in distressed bonds and are the ones that team up with restructuring professionals such as Houlihan. Therefore, it makes sense to build client relationships with these hedge funds by doing restructuring work with the hopes of being hired sometime down the road.

Jul 26, 2017

know markets, come with trade ideas

Jul 26, 2017

this is a double edged sword. especially if you are right out of school as most the time whoever your interviewing has 1000x more experience and they might teven have the trade on. Unless given a project, or asked, I wouldnt give my 'trade ideas'.

Plus, most the time you wont be putting trades on anyways, just doing the background analysis.

Jul 26, 2017

Did someone really just reference Houlihan in the same sentence as Lazard and Blackstone? I'll just assume this was in reference to hedge fund admin recruiting...

    • 1
Jul 26, 2017

Lazard and Blackstone do more work on the debtor side than creditor. HLHZ does creditor work.

Jul 26, 2017

Can I contact alums working in the hedge fund industry for advice on getting a HF job out of undergrad? Ridiculous!?

Jul 26, 2017

bump

Jul 26, 2017

bump

Jul 26, 2017
forexcrazed:

does one have to possess a relevant university degree to get a ++200k position with a hedge fund or an investment bank or sheer trading experience and track record(165% p.a. return), but on a much smaller funds amount, may assist one to get these jobs? any educated response will be much appreciated.

Define "relevant" university degree. Plenty of people at different hedge funds make +200k without a business related degree. I've met people that majored in electrical engineering to psychology that hold these types of positions. Other than being viewed as a relevant learning experience, your track record on a small p.a. will likely not garner much attention. Making a scalable strategy is a whole different beast.

It might be beneficial for you to pursue prop trading. If you're really good, you can probably take away 200k.

Jul 26, 2017

I know a guy who made absolutely stellar profits for three years at a top prop shop in NYC (mid 6 figure total compensation every year). He did his undergrad at a good school in economics, and received a certificate in portfolio management with an A level gpa, and had an internship in hedge fund research prior to his working at the prop shop. He was rejected from/wait listed from every business school I know of having applied to. Just food for thought - prop shops get no respect, and skill is not necessarily the most direct route to riches.

"...all truth passes through three stages. First, it is ridiculed. Second, it is violently opposed. Third, it is accepted as being self-evident."

  • Schopenhauer
Jul 26, 2017

Seabird, this is very disconcerting to hear about your friend. I assume he worked at a top prop shop like first new york. This seems to corroborate my view that traders have a very tough time getting into top business schools because adcom feels that their skills don't translate well into what these schools are looking for.

Jul 26, 2017

Darwiner, I would focus on getting a job in the business of trading and forget the education part of if...you arent going to learn anything with an Msc or online economics classes that you cant get in the market in my opinion. If I was you I would keep trading and growing your capital, keep actively looking for a job trading somewhere you can get more capital, and I would also try to build contacts in the industry by sharing trading ideas. I think a newsletter or blog is a cheap way to do this as long as you put in the work to make it good.

Jul 26, 2017

I just want to say good luck. Good to know that there are interesting people out there who have not traveled the well known path in life--keeps it interesting.

Jul 26, 2017

bump

Jul 26, 2017

hf recruiting is tough right now considering how bad funds are bleeding.

Jul 26, 2017

Yes networking works very well but as one would expect if funds aren't hiring, there's nothing you can do about it. Would try to get introduced to whoever you can using your Rolodex and then try to set up quick conversations with them. Try to impress and ask good questions, but honestly a lot will not pan out to become interviews. Just a fact of life that people either won't exactly love you or won't end up hiring. Just need to be humble and move on.

This went way off topic but you get the idea.

Jul 26, 2017

Apply to Bridgewater Assocaites, they love the entrepreneur type. It would depend on what type of role youre looking to get in at though, as they tend to like the ivy league yougins if they're goin to train you.

Jul 26, 2017

Bridgewater wont really hire anyone over 30 unless they are extremely senior... plus they are really creepy and have feelings talks all day.

Jul 26, 2017

maybe going to the pe/vc arm of a bigger fund group (i.e. deshaw) might be a good way to smooth the transition

Jul 26, 2017

i suggest you target your search on small and medium-sized growth equity funds that focus on tech industry. you would be an intriguing candidate for those funds, and they tend to be less rigid about age and background. once you get some experience there, you can start moving to more traditional equity-focused hedge funds. good luck.

Jul 26, 2017

I think that with your background, you should look at VC and growth funds specializing in the tech space. It will get you some experience in valuing companies from an investment point-of-view whilst leveraging your experience in the tech start-up space.

VC and growth funds will respect your operational experience, so it won't be too difficult to sell them on your background. At the same time, you'll be able to establish a bit of a track record as a successful investor, and (probably) get to meet some people in the endowment/pension community.

After doing that for a few years, it shouldn't be too hard to set up your own fund or progress to a PM position within an established firm.

Jul 26, 2017

please. you should start your own fund.

Jul 26, 2017

Thanks for the feedback. Leveraging my past background does make a lot of sense and I have a lot of relationships within the VC space. On that note, how often does someone jump from VC to HF? I haven't seen anyone do that personally so was wondering how likely that would be to happen.

I do have some contacts at DE Shaw and a few private equity funds so I can put the feelers out there to see what the opportunities are as well.

Would love to hear any more thoughts people have.

Jul 26, 2017

I'm not aware of anyone who's made the jump from VC -> HF. They're very different industries, though I suppose if the HF is investing in start-ups, it could be relevant, but not many funds do that. Starting your own fund is a possibility, but most managers don't look kindly on people who start their own funds, as they'll a) assume you failed (why wouldn't you just stick with your own fund otherwise?) and b) worry that you'll have picked up bad habits/not been properly trained.

You do probably have a good background for tech focused funds, and an operating role at a PE/VC firm would also probably be a good fit. Not sure about DE Shaw, they're probably too quant for your skillset

Jul 26, 2017

why hf? why not ib, pe, am or working at an IT/tech co in snr mgmt?

you mention the possibility of opening up your own fund first. assuming that you have a strategy in your head, how long have you researched it for?

ok ok, they are just questions. but what i want add, from my personal experiences, is: don't feel you have to move to something similar to your past background. i don't know if that's what you had in mind when writing the OP; i can't tell from your OP if you REALLY hate what you used to do. if you do, it's much better to move away, but to emphasise the skills that you've gained during your interviews apps etc...

Jul 26, 2017

@BnewzSrumr

are you for real? i would like to hear more bout bwater! would be you so kind as to elaborate? pm?

Jul 26, 2017

interviewing there is an experience... there are threads about it or you can read about it here:

http://www.onedayonejob.com/jobs/bridgewater-assoc...
I spent a day there for trading interview, definitely not the traditional format.

Jul 26, 2017

Start your own fund. Seriously. The goal of most people in this business is to run their own fund and the biggest obstacle is capital. I assume you've got some money and contacts with others who have money.

Jul 26, 2017

If you want to go the traditional route and join a large shop your best bet is to leverage your startup experience and become a tech sector analyst on the sell side or with a large buy side firm that has sector specialists.

Jul 26, 2017

start your own fund. hands down. it doesnt really matter how much you have, cus im sure you can roll up 30-50MM?

--
"Those who say don't know, and those who know don't say."

Jul 26, 2017

you could definitely clean up the language, there is a lot of unnecessary stuff on there.

Freeze those knees, my chickadees!

Jul 26, 2017

what would you suggest be removed?

Jul 26, 2017

A few things:

The CAIA is really only useful for people who work with hedge funds and not for hedge funds. The topics relate mostly to performance attribution, portfolio analysis and measurement, due diligence, and operational topics. It is a great exam for your current position but not for the position that you desire. Do the CFA instead.

I am assuming that English is your second language. I understand your writing but improving your written communication skills would serve you well.

Lastly, if you are serious about working at a fund, start following companies, develop trade theses, and start building a track record in a simulator.

Jul 26, 2017

Math/Physics/Applied Math @ HYPMS?

Don't believe everything you think.

Jul 26, 2017

Quant fund (like DE Shaw, Getco, Jane Street): Math, stat, physics, applied math, or comp sci + math classes at HYPS (Wharton and MIT too), 3.7+ GPA, and a penchant for quantitative brainteasers (for interviews). Beware: being at a quant fund is very different than "investing," it's about using mathematical algorithms to find market discrepancies, not reading through company filings and valuing them. Some people love that type of quant workflow and make bank $$$ out of college. But you actually have to be really, really quantitative to get and hold a job. You need to have some baseline skills before you can realistically aspire for a career in this field. Plus it's sort of a dead end in terms of careers, but a pretty lucrative one!

Fundamental fund: Same college majors if trying to break through from undergrad, although could do economics with 3.9+ GPA. Interviews are less quantitative and often even case-oriented, but few post-undergrad positions. Probably have to go through 2 years in BB IBD, S&T, or high-exposure investment management to land a spot

And fyi it's spelled "curriculum." If you're in 11th grade, it's good that you are ambitious and curious, but focus on getting into a good college right now, because with a top 10 college admission, you will have a lot better career options (including HF). Worry about being the best student you can be, not so much about the career yet. Good luck!

Jul 26, 2017

Thank you very much for the reply!

Jul 26, 2017

I don't think it is about what you as much as as it is where you study. Even though I tend to agree with the opinions above that some combination of Economics/Math/Stats etc. would be desirable, I think that if you study at HYP or Oxbridge, you can also study Philosophy. I have personally witnessed the latter at Oxbridge (HF out of undergrad as philosophy major).

Jul 26, 2017

isn't there a shortage of H1-B visas right now?

Jul 26, 2017
ladubs111:

isn't there a shortage of H1-B visas right now?

I have no idea. I wouldn't mind waiting for next year's availability or whatever. I'm just wondering about the possibility.

Also, I'll add this to the original post, is contacting headhunters a viable option given that I'm looking for a relatively junior role? Do they actually deal with such roles or only more senior/experienced hires?

thanks.

Jul 26, 2017

Just read BlackHat interview and I believe he used a headhunter to make a move from one HF to another. So you can try that.

Jul 26, 2017
BeerSaturns:

Just read BlackHat interview and I believe he used a headhunter to make a move from one HF to another. So you can try that.

Situation is different cuz OP is a foreigner and got his anti-immigration shit going on cuz its election year.

Jul 26, 2017

Well, the Visa thing is not so much of a concern at the moment.

Any insights in the rest of my post?

Jul 26, 2017

Headhunter. I wouldnt go cold-calling people if you currently have a job...part of the reason cold-calling is so good for college kids is that they have nothing to lose.

Jul 26, 2017
Bondarb:

Headhunter. I wouldnt go cold-calling people if you currently have a job...part of the reason cold-calling is so good for college kids is that they have nothing to lose.

Well, that shouldn't be much of an issue as I won't be in a job in a while. Ha! In general given I'm in an unusual situation at the moment that wouldn't be a problem. My PM knows and is happy to give a reference to anyone about me so no risk on that side.

However, I take your point that a HH might be a good start before the cold-calling thing. Any reputable ones in London?

Jul 26, 2017

LBS is a good start. Also see if you can start the CFA, maybe pass a level or 2 before full time recruiting starts. LBS should have plenty of alums working at Hedge Funds so make sure you reach out to them on day 1.

Jul 26, 2017

There are two paths you could take: 1) go to sell-side research, get a couple years of fundamental research experience and switch to the buy-side. This depends on your age. 2) network with funds that are hybrid -- use both quant and fundamental analyses in their decision making. This include some notable quant funds like Two Sigma and Nine Chapters. It also includes growth oriented funds, where technical analysis plays a big component. Contact me further for more info.

KJ

CredentialFocus .com
Premium finance recruiting services

Jul 26, 2017

Thanks KJ! PM'ed you.

Jul 26, 2017

You should read this post if you haven't already: //www.wallstreetoasis.com/blog/the-types-of-monkeys-in-the-trading-jungle

The short answer: Yes, you can move to the buy-side from trading, but you'll most likely be hired as an execution monkey.

From my experience, other than the games behind who is trading what and why, and the occasional arb opportunities from thinly traded securities (I was at a FI shop), and free dinners/drinks from the sell-side sales ppl, trading at a hedge fund can get quite boring. Sure, you can update numbers in the models your analysts create, but analysts are the driving force behind revenue at a most HFs, and those positions usually hire from the sell-side banking or research pools.

Jul 26, 2017

Thanks for the link and your personal exp. Very helpful

Jul 26, 2017

bump

Jul 26, 2017

Can someone please give me some input?

Jul 26, 2017

You posted pretty early on a Sunday lol but you're still young ...does junior summer mean you're going to be a junior next year or a senior?

Jul 26, 2017

I'll be a senior.

Jul 26, 2017

Hedge Funds typically seek candidates with experience (and even more typically, at a BB). Depending on where you go to school, transitioning to a hedge fund out of undergrad is not unheard of, though.

Jul 26, 2017

What possible jobs could you someone landing after an internship with derivate brokers?

I'm coming from a non target. Wondering if it would be best to find a last minute IB internship.

Jul 26, 2017

You're in a fine position because of your age but all you said was "internship under deriv traders" ...that could be anything, at any type of firm but short answer is yes you can still get in anywhere if you put the work in

Jul 26, 2017

from not knowing much more, I'm sure it can be done. Work hard with the trading types, build a network with them (they'll know others on the street) and take it from there.

Good Luck

Jul 26, 2017

not from your shitty country you don't

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Jul 26, 2017

Yes, you have to be "hot" to land a HF job in the US.

Jul 26, 2017
PaulAllenIsInLondon:

Yes, you have to be "hot" to land a HF job in the US.

Quite true. It's generally very rare for non-hot people to make it to the industry.

Jul 26, 2017

IB route for 1-2 years, and then apply.

Jul 26, 2017

What exact IB position would be a good fit, any specifics about which IB/analyst jobs prepare you the best for Macro HF?
Any suggestions?

Array
Jul 26, 2017

Question is too vague: IB/AM is probably better for l/s equity but those skills are useless for global macro, where a trading background is multitudes better. So basically it depends on the strategy.