How to improve
So I'm way past the point of getting sad or caring too much when I get rejected since I'm so used to it at this point (got rejected from UCLA and Berkeley 4 times each, ask me later), but this one specifically annoyed me so I had to share.
But anyway, I recently had gone through the interview process with a pretty known prop trading firm in NYC, and just found out I got rejected today.
I had to send a cover letter, resume, complete a personality assessment/game, a mental math test that was proctored (took this at 5 AM because of stupid PST to EST time difference and still passed), 2 interviews with HR, and finally an interview with a trader, all while taking 5 upper div classes this quarter. Compare that to IMC that rejected me at the first step resume screen and I actually appreciate them way more.
So I think the disappointing part is that they string you along all the way to the trader interview and then drop you like its hot, with the generic "we found better candidates" with no explanation whatsoever about what went wrong or what could've gone better. And the WORST part by far is they always say "we'll keep your application on file if anything comes up". I mean....have you guys heard of a firm actually ever calling back "when an opportunity arises"? This to me seems like utter BS.
But anyway to the main point....I was under the impression, from their website, that they care only about a candidate's math/quantitative reasoning/problem solving ability, and then they teach new grad traders the relevant finance concepts in a couple month long boot-camp before assigning them to a trading desk. Yet, the interview with the trader was literally just about specific finance concepts and not a single technical question was asked? Things about ex-dividend dates, esoteric leveraged ETF's, ETF specifics, arbitrage technicals, and what stocks I would buy in a damn alien invasion?!
And the worst part is, I actually thought I did fairly well. Sure, I didn't answer all of them correctly and hesitated on a few, but overall I thought I really knew my stuff and came off as passionate, but apparently not. So my real question is....how do I "study" more finance? I've taken and passed the SIE exam but that was a year or two ago....I just didn't expect THAT specific of finance questions for a quant trading position. And also, when you get that far into the interview process (one before final round), do you pretty much have to answer everything perfectly?? I ask because the trader seemed nice and he also acknowledged several times that he was impressed by my deep knowledge, but apparently he ran straight to my recruiter and told her to cut me the fk off.
That's all, rant done. Would appreciate others sharing similar stories, or telling me how I should improve, or the WSB special, just calling me a baby or something lol.
It’s clear which firm you’re referencing, you could have said the name (hint: it’s four letters). What year are you?
Hmm I forgot the prop trading community is so small, didn't realize it was that obvious lol. I'm a senior, graduating this June
To be frank, I also know what firm you’re talking about and went through their process this year up until the final round (ended up signing somewhere else and not doing the final round). The trader phone also threw me completely off, but I had pretty much no finance knowledge (definitely a lot less than it sounds like you had) and ended up just trying to answer to the best of my ability. Thought I did rather poorly at the end, but ended up getting the call back so I think they were more curious about the way you think rather than any esoteric finance knowledge you may possess (though it would certainly have helped a bit for that interview).
I answered the Alien Invasion question by saying Flow, by the way. After all, aliens mean volatility, and volatility means market makers take home $$$.
Ah I see. Yeah the problem was I was preparing for probability, mental math, EV, brain teaser type problems (thought it would be a very technical type interview), and ended up getting completely blindsided during the actual call.
I answered the alien question by saying I would short the stock market (specifically SPY), and invest in more safe financial products like commodities (silver and gold), so basically I answered most questions really rigidly with not much creativity aka by the book answers. Idk why I didn't think of buying Flow stock, that's genius and I can see why they called you back lol.
I even solved the leveraged decay question he asked (not sure if you were asked this too), but yeah idk, ig I just didn't have that creativity that they were looking for. Bummer
Yeah if the leveraged decay is about the performance of levered assets in the long run, I wrote out some math for that and explained it. Seems that the interview was standardized in some sense, just very different from pretty much all technical trading interviews I’ve had.
Not sure about shorting in that situation, what if the aliens bring resources and the market pumps 😎. In all honesty though, no real right answer to that question. Commodities seem pretty logical, who knows if equities would have much value at all in a true alien invasion.
Yeah but what if the Fed uses all the power they have to prop back up the equity market during a shock (like with COVID), and the aliens take too long to take control of the central banks for you not to be forced to close out your short position at a big loss haha?
I went through the process here through OCR and had a case-based superday. Look, have some perspective. The Alien question seems kind of simple no? Think about who you were interviewing with (a market maker). Moreover, (i'm not sure if this was a covid superday), but you have to understand other candidates are interviewing at the same time as you. If your phone interviewer doesn't vouch for you more than others, then that's that. The superday I had like also 10 people from mostly wharton and other targets. Sounds like this is your first superday rejection? You get better with more practice (also the finance component emphasis seems to stem from their Wharton ties which they expect as a given).
You're completely right, and I'm not too sure why I blanked out on that question and didn't think about it from a market maker's perspective. Ultimately, I think that's what got me dinged, which sucks, because it's something that could've been easily avoided and prepared for imo.
Yeah, not only is this my first superday rejection, but it's my first superday in terms of quant trading. Ig I can't expect to be successful on my very first try, but thank you so much for the advice I really appreciate it.
which firm is this?
I was gonna try to keep the firm anonymous, but ig other people figured out that it's Flow Traders in NYC
Alien question is a classic, although I’ve usually heard it with “There’s a breaking headline that a nuclear missile was fired at the USA and sp500 is down 10%, do you go long or short?”
you go long sp500 as the best trade
1. if the aliens are friendly/the missile is just a rumor, the market is going to rip higher
2. the aliens/missile destroy the world, then it doesn’t matter cause you’re dead
Lmao makes perfect sense when I read it now; unfortunately, I never came across this question during my preparation nor did I have the creativity during the phone call to actually think the question through and realize Aliens can be a good or bad thing for Earth, so volatility would ensue. A great learning experience nevertheless
all I'll say is you have the right mindset and you will probably find success at some point. the worst thing you can do is allow this rejection to stop your momentum
life is full of rejections, failure & struggle are necessary for progress. take the day off, pound some scotch, clap some cheeks, and get after it next week, you'll be just fine
Thank you, that means a lot to me!
Brofessor coming in hot with the quality advice as always.
This is so salty lmao. Would you get mad if you got asked options theory questions at Akuna or CTC? The firm specializes in ETFs the least you could do is review the bare minimum basics. Jane St. even has some free literature on their website.
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