What is the point of networking?
Hello! I've networked my ass off over the years and now working at a tier 2 consulting firm without having networked with anyone in the firm. So I feel like the saying that networking is super important in i-banking or consulting is blown out of proportion. Instead, you should invest more time on your resume, cover letter and casting a wider net.
What networking seems to be for me:
- You find someone you have things in common with and establish a genuine conversation/relationship
- As genuine as it can be, there will always be a degree of superficialness since both parties know that they are doing this because they can potentially gain something from it.
- At the end of the day, you ask them if you can drop their name on your cover letter or ask for a referral
- Most likely than not, the relationship is too superficial and mechanical (I talk to you, ask you questions, you answer and I ask you for referral in the end) for the person to vouch for you and even if they do, it doesn't always mean a guaranteed interview.
Agree/disagree?
Please feel free to share a story where networking worked for you.
i think its a bad idea to spend too, too much time on your resume, it gets glanced over in like 15secs i think the point of networking is to sort of understand what the industry professionals really do to understand if your truely interested, also i found the people who networked come into the interview more polished on why they firm/industry/line of work...and on the off chance you get a refferal....networking....its a no downside/all upside game
i find it funny when college people turn resumes 500 times, when all i do is glance college, gpa, internship firm, internship title.......maybe interests if they didnt already get dinged cuz of the first 3-4
As someone that has a say in a person's candidacy, is it acceptable for the person to ask you to be a referral or is he/she supposed to leave you to decide if the conversation was good enough for you to let the resume go through or not?
I've had similar experiences to you. Called/met with 50+ people across the country and landed at a job I just applied for online. I think the way to do it is not spread yourself as thin as I did, and actually become somewhat of a mentee to someone. Having 3-4 really good conversations with one person is more likely to lead to a job than 10 mediocre conversations with 10 different people. Would be good to hear from someone who actually went from cold email to landing a job
Since I'm in a tier 2 consulting internship right now, I networked really well with a guy in MBB, now I'm wondering how to close this. Do people just usually tell them that they're applying and to have a referral or cross their fingers and hope the person knows ur applying and lookout for your cv?
What's the downside if you let him know you're applying? Some job apps have a section for how you heard about the job or a referral section. Let him know you enjoyed talking to him and would like to know if it's okay if you put his name down on your app. This lets him know you're applying and also makes it less awkward for him bc he's not actually committing to helping you by saying it's okay to put his name down
It sound like you're approaching networking from a purely transactional perspective. Networking is infinitely easier and yields greater results when you start doing it BEFORE you actually want something specific. Let me give you an example. I've signed an offer for an Analyst Position at a PE firm after I graduate. I'm fully committed to pursuing this opportunity, but I'm still reaching out to people who work for other PE firms to simply learn more about the industry and hear any advice/recommendations they have for me. I plan on keeping in touch with the people who are receptive of my efforts so that if/when the time comes for me to lateral to a different firm I already have relationships with relevant people.
The idea is to cultivate a network of contacts so that when the time comes that you do actually need something, you already have the relationships established.
Edit: Spelling
Truth – it never hurts to meet new people and learn about what they do, especially in this industry. You never know what it might lead to. The goal is to build a spiderweb of connections, often times one contact may offer to put you in touch with another, and so on.
The goal (in undergrad) of networking is to help solidify your own interest, make the extra step, learn, and have internal people push your resume after having genuine, real, conversations. I've had plenty of people share their experiences when kids have reached out and been total dumbasses – if the person on the other end of the line/table/etc wants to push you, they will, and if they don't, they won't. You network for the former, and to try and make that a reality, since that holds much more weight than an online application at a BB or the like.
Could not agree more. When I was searching for a PE summer analyst gig I often found myself talking to people that were 4+ degrees of separation away from the initial person I made contact with.
Can you share some examples of how student's have acted like total dumbasses as a guide of what NOT to do?
Here's the thing about networking. If your resume isn't good enough, no amount of networking will get you anywhere. E.g. A 2.7 GPA will not cut it at my firm (MBB) no matter how much we might like you from information sessions.
The flip side to this is if you ARE good enough, then the single best way to make yourself known to firms and get yourself an interview is to network well.
Networking: while kids who applied through the OCR were getting phone screened, a first round, then off to a superday, I spoke with an alum at the info session and gave home my resume. Next thing I know I received a Superday invite without applying through the OCR or being screened. The gift of gab.
I always aim to find a genuine connection with the person I'm networking with, but I don't think shit needs to be fake if y'all aren't the best of friends. It's not like some kind of dichotomy where y'all either skip off into the deep and meaningful human connection sunset or y'all are forced to like each other over overpriced coffee and small talk. Can be somewhere in between.
I don't usually ask for a job with the people I network with too. Honestly, if you're a decent person and you have a genuine interest in the industry, people will want to introduce you to other professionals or hit you up when a new position becomes available. That said, if you know there's an opening and you think you've got the stats, then why not make an outright ask, provided it's not framed in a 'oh this is where all my weeks of shit-talking starts paying dividends' kind of way.
As for a personal story... well, I generally find someone I think is interesting and I ask if it's okay for me to ask some questions. The more I find them interesting, the less I need to fake anything. Worked alright for me so far - I did have someone reach out to me with a job offer (without me asking) and another professional I met is my mentor. Don't know if I will become actual friends with the people I network with, but if we ever went out for a drink after work, it'd probably be cool. I mean that's kind of the point right? Being a good enough human being that people want to spend their free time with you... not just about them giving you a job.
How to Network Without Purpose (Originally Posted: 01/13/2018)
How do you continue networking without a real purpose? I'll explain my situation real quick. Recent graduate with a good gig for a developer. Love the company, love my job, don't plan on leaving till they take away my PPE. Nevertheless, I want to grow my network and I enjoy meeting new people and hearing about their job/experiences. Reaching out to people was easy before I had my job since I was looking for a job and still trying to understand the industry. I'm not sure how to frame messages to people anymore - what's the purpose why I'm contacting them? Someone with valuable time will not be keen to grab a coffee for fun
Hi Mg33, hope I can help. Do any of these links cover what you're looking for:
If we're lucky, maybe these professional users will respond: mfid813 just_another_analyst zikrilhakim
You're welcome.
I just do CRE networking events.
I also make an effort to go to popular restaurants every other week with a friend in the industry. We almost always run into someone that either I or they know, and from there, make a connection with that person.
I'm in a very similar boat. Love my company, my position, etc. I think your only issue is that you see it as networking without purpose.
My networking has shifted from trying to talk to development execs to trying to talk to both people my own age in other roles and people who can help my business. The "help my business," such as other GCs, architects, equity groups, debt providers, etc. are obvious. The "people my own age in other roles" are less so, but equally important, because one day "our age" will be the leading generation and it really helps to know heavy hitters in different roles in the industry.
Networking is over a longer horizon now. It's not about the short-term gain (i.e. getting a job), it's more about making genuine friends and business connections that may help 10-20 years down the road.
VERY Important Question About the Value of Networking (Originally Posted: 03/28/2016)
I am wondering what you can specifically get out of networking with people who are NOT from your school at one of the BB banks?
That's not how recruiting usually works. Every firm is different, but anyone who likes you enough can be useful in making sure your resume gets sent to the right people. Most firms have school specific recruiting teams and talking to the individuals on this team will be most beneficial, and they often might not be from that school.
During recruiting, the person who got me the interview for the firm I am currently working was not an alumnus.
Good point. So how would you propose sending them the resume? Usually, in my initial cold email, I do not attach my resume.
Not where I work. Does this happen anywhere? If so, what's the logic behind it?
Can someone explain how "for Boutiques, reaching out to ANYONE from any school is helpful?"
Because it's a small shop, so whoever you reach out to has more power in giving you the interview than at a BB where there's 1000s of people.
I understand DB and JPM have pretty strict resume forwarding policies. However, I am firm believer a really strong friendship or family member connection is just as valuable as a alumnus. For instance, an alumnus may say "I will be forwarding your resume to HR" or whatever. But he more than likely won't have to look you in the eyes at any social gathering anytime soon. Not calling anyone "liars" but this is Wall Street.
Guys....this is VERY important.
From my experience with cold emailing, the best responses comes from alumnus. I have spoken to about 20+ non alumnus and the majority have either said they'll forward my resume, they're all set with interns, or they are not taking any. Alumnus always tend to reply to email. I had 2 interviews yesterday at a BB and MM in NYC, both with alumnus. I would stick to alumnus at BB because they tend to be only ones who will remember/advocate for you when time comes.
The importance of networking (Originally Posted: 10/31/2007)
I just wanted to offer some friendly advice to all non-targets on the board. This is in no way an attempt to start a target versus non-target debate, but to tell a success story. I go to a non target, had no internship experience, and ended up getting offers from two reputable firms.
I applied to about 60 banks online and did not get one response. So I started networking very intensely. I called a CEO that I am family friends with, a mutual fund manager, friends from high school, college, fraternity brothers anyone I could think of. Anyways, the CEO and mutual fund manager got me interviews that did not lead to offers. I ended up getting both of my offers from interviews that came from friends of friends. The firm I will be working for granted me a first round interview b/c one of my fraternity brothers had a distant family member working there.
I know that it has been said before, but if you go to a non-target you must network to break into ib. I can tell you from first hand experience that applying online does absolutely nothing. My advice after going through the recruiting process would be to ask everyone you know if they have a contact in the industry.
You wouldn't happen to have any contacts in Chicago you would be willing to share?
Sorry
How much of a non-target is your non-target?
It is a top 50 school, but not top 20 by any means. Every bulge bracket recruits here, but only for operations and other terrible positions.
Top 50 as rated by who and by what standards?
Who cares if it's a Top 50 or Top 20 school he goes to. What is that answer going to mean to you?!?
pepsi how are you kingkong?
aadpepsi-
I'm not sure what you're missing.
I'm an undergrad student in a non-target school that is ranked quite high despite being a non-target. I'm trying to constantly gauge the probability of getting an offer as an analyst by asking as many people as possible what their relative situations and outcomes were.
What David failed to point out is the fact that he has a 3.98 GPA. With few exceptions, you still need to be a very strong candidate coming from a non-target. Aside from the stats on paper, you need to know your shit when you interview. So get yourself in order, THEN network like mad.
You increase your probability by sheer brute force, i.e. networking, picking up the phone, calling people, having as many conversations as possible with as many people as will speak with you, going to as many open houses, career fairs, company presentations, tapping into alumni, friends, acquaintances, family etc.
And I agree with what was written above... get yourself in order first and then start doing all the above.
U.S. News and World Report rankings of universities.
I could not agree more with this. My interviews were very technically much more in depth than what is covered in the Vault guides. I do not know if this had to do with the ranking of the school I attended, or if it is just the standard these days.
Thanks. Mine is also in the Top 50.
The convo started deviating from the initial point about networking (and I understand why everyone wanted to know what kind of non-target he was referring to). As an unemployed fresh grad trying to get my foot in the door in IB, seeing as there was no recruiting at my school, networking is the only tool that has shown results. Networking in financial services, let alone IB, has been like the Domino Effect. One contact out of the industry, leads to a family member that used to be in the industry, that had a friend in the industry, who knows someone who is hiring, etc. You can make up your own diagrams of this networking flow, but eventually something will come from your initial network (if you keep persistant and determined). I believe in this system, and hopefully it will eventually put me in an actual position. So those of you out there, looking for that job, keep the contacts updated and keep networking.
good stuff.
Being highly accomplished coming from a nontarget goes without saying. Unless you're related to an MD, if you go to a smaller school, you better have a 3.8+ GPA, run a club, have finance internships, and know your sh!t in interviews. But even on top of that you HAVE to network. I got a job from a BB out of a definite nontarget but respected liberal arts school and can honestly say that the only way I got a shot at the BBs was through networking with older alumni and guys at my internships who had bulge bracket contacts.
Do you feel you could have landed a job at a smaller bank easily?
Why are people trying so hard? It's just another job.
That post doesn't contribute anything to the discussion and is, of course, a ridiculous question.
Purpose of Networking (Originally Posted: 08/09/2015)
Hey everyone,
I know that the ultimate goal for networking is to establish a long term business relationship. But just for the purpose of getting a SA position, what do I want from my interviewees? Are they only going to help me put my resume to the first round stack? If so, how do I know if they have the power to put my resume in, or how do I know they are the people who are responsible for reading the resume? Or the goal for networking is to know that person, and hope that person will be the interviewer for my first round/super day, so that he will like me more?
I guess I need some overall clarification as why should we meet as much bankers as possible. Thank you guys so much in advance.
Any one?
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