Hey monkeys,
As I am a rising sophomore at a non-target, I have been trying to position myself as best as possible to land an IB gig. I understand that a very common path is for students to do an internship in PWM or at a local PE shop or HF, etc in the freshman summer (which I have done), and then do an internship at a boutique investment bank during their sophomore summer, and then hopefully get a BB/EB/MM internship for the following summer.
I'd imagine that the process of obtaining a sophomore summer internship is much less formal than for the junior summer role, but what IS the process really like? Do you just cold-email the people that work for your local boutiques? Do they bring you in and interview you? What are the hours and timeframe of the role typically like, and how do you know a legit boutique versus some shop that may have "investment banking" in their about us description but isn't really an IB.
Thanks everyone! Feel free to comment or PM me if you need any more info or have any advice/reflections about your experience.
EDIT: Also let's say there are 5 boutiques in your area. Do you apply to and network to all five at the same time and then just pick the best offer you get, or do you take it one by one so you don't have to turn down an offer after you've already networked with them?
I have been wanting to know this as well
go fuck around in Charleston for a summer you have the rest of your life to slave away at a bank
There's definitely still time to have fun lol, especially if I get a junior year internship offer during the summer or early into junior year I'll have much less stress during junior and senior year knowing that I damn near have a IB job locked up. I just want other's inputs on the details of how to reach out
Grind networking. Reach out to as many people as possible and don't worry about having to turn down offers.
I posted a little about my strategies on this forum:
https://www.wallstreetoasis.com/forums/finance-sophomore-recruiting-202…
Thanks for the response. How atypical is it for students to live somewhere other than their hometown to do a sophomore year boutique? One of the comments in the thread you posted said how hard it was to land a boutique SA stint as a non-target and there are only like 5 boutiques in my area, so how likely is it that I will have to apply to other cities do you think?
Very rarely does a bank do OCR for a sophomore summer. So target and nontarget students are alike in how they have to go about getting a sophomore IB internship. I had 5 first rounds, and 3 final rounds at boutiques, and am interning at one now as a sophomore. First you need to decide on geographies. I chose my hometown, my college town, and NY. First two are obvious, I would have a place to stay there, but NY would be really expensive and all the money I would make at an internship would probably go to living expenses. However, I decided it was worth it because of the networking opportunities. So first step, choose the geographies you can conceivably work at and afford to live in.
Next step, make a list of all the boutique banks in the city I also included LMM PE firms in my hometown to expand the search. Once you do this, document as many people's information as possible, and find a way to keep track of your conversations. I made a spreadsheet, that contained the person's name, their bank, their alma mater, the city the bank is in, their title, and whether or not I've contacted them, followed up, or if they've responded. If the bank is small and has like 5 people, put them all down, if they have like 25, put a few people at each position down, and only add more if no one responds.
Boutiques aren't as formal or structured as BBs/EBs/MMs, In some cases they take an intern or two every summer, and you have to convince them to be that intern. In other cases, they don't take any interns, and so you have to call an MD and convince them to take you on as their first ever intern. Never offer to do it unpaid until they reject you, in that case offer to do it unpaid if you can afford to do so. There's no rule about who is best to contact at a boutique. Whereas at a BB/EB/MM VP+ is the go to as they can get you into the recruiting process, at a boutique an analyst/associate may be in charge of analyst and summer analyst recruiting. Or it could be the office manager, a VP, or even an MD.
All of my interviews were over the phone for the first round, and then a video call or phone call for the final round.
Network with as many at the same time as you can. But at the same time, don't spam everyone in the same firm in a day. If one person doesn't respond, follow up in a week, and then reach out to someone else. People have emailed some of my colleagues, but 3-4 at the same time, and they talk about it and make fun of the person. That being said, one will usually respond, it just doesn't look good to send out the same generic email to 4 people at once in the same firm. Give it a bit of time. And give up after one initial email and then one follow up. At the end of the call ask about whether or not they have an internship program. If they say yes, ask how best to position yourself for it or whatever, if they don't, ask them to forward you to someone else in the bank. After you've spoken with a few people, email the MD and talk about how great of an environment his bank is or whatever and ask if they can fit you in as an intern.
Oh and timeline, I did this all during my Sophomore Fall. Started making the list and reaching out in September. Got an offer in November.
+1. Awesome reply, got a decent amount of questions for you (sorry I just really don't know much at all about this process lol)
There's only like 4-5 boutiques in my hometown that I've found, so I guess I should add my collegetown and NYC. How many firms overall do you recommend reaching out to? And should I always just start with one person and then if the call goes well I can ask them to recommend me someone else to talk to at the firm?
What were the first round and final round interviews like in terms of what they asked you and what you needed to know? And does every boutique have a hiring process like this where you must do rounds and interview for the roles? Through a family connection I know someone who runs a local boutique that just started in my area and said he would try to see if they're ready for an intern for next summer but I assume I'd still be going through the same interview process.
You mentioned that if they say no to if they have an internship program, ask them to forward you to someone else in the bank. If they don't have an internship program why would I try to network with someone else in the bank if there isn't an internship program available to begin with?
How's the SA stint going for you? What are the hours like, the experience, the knowledge you're gaining, etc.?
Thanks again, I'm definitely gonna try to get this started as early as possible because it would feel great to have an offer locked down in the fall so I don't have to worry about that in the spring
Ask away.
4-5 boutiques isn't bad at all. My college town actually had none, and my hometown about the same amount. New York boutiques had the lowest response rate for me. My spreadsheet had about 100 people on it. I don't remember the number of firms. But that got me to 5 first rounds (3 in hometown, 1 in NY, 1 through this program abroad), got 3 final rounds (hometown, NY, abroad). Was rejected by the one abroad, got the offer from the hometown one, and accepted then withdrew from the NY one. I targeted the 5 in my hometown and 2 LMM PE firms. 100 people ultimately only led to 1 offer, maybe 2 if I had waited for NY. My long winded way of saying reach out to as many as you can. But also only expand to NY if you can afford to live there. Lastly, yes start with one person, and if it goes well, ask about the recruiting process, and ask them to forward you to someone else.
All 3 in my hometown and the one abroad were all very non-technical. Solely behavioral questions and a couple "show me how you think questions" to determine if you can think like a banker/aren't an idiot. The NY one had a few technicals (name the financial statements, if depreciation goes up by $10 what happens) but it was very lax. They knew I was a sophomore and there wasn't as much pressure as junior interviews. But boutiques are very diverse, so you may end up having to know full-on technicals. better to be over prepared than under prepared. Look at the M&I 400 and you'll be fine just knowing the basic questions. Not every boutique is this formal in the process. If you have a family connection, he could just tell the office that you're interning there after a 2 min talk. The MDs really run the show at a boutique so everything is at their discretion.
Sorry, I tend to ramble and my punctuation sucks on this site so not everything I write flows as clear as I'd like. If they say no to an internship program, reach out to an MD and ask them to take you on anyway. But before you do, it may be best just to talk to some analysts at the firm so you can show interest, and when you're on the phone with the MD mention you spoke with x, y, and z. So he can then ask about you, and if you made a good impression, maybe he will consider giving you an internship. I was able to convince and MD to do this, but unfortunately it was unpaid and in a different city, so I didn't want to pay out of pocket for my living expenses just to work there.
I work 45 hours a week, but I get an hour a day for lunch, so I guess 40 hours of work a week, 9-6. I do a lot of grunt stuff. Boutiques aren't like bigger banks, you don't send your presentation to a print shop, you print it and bind it yourself. So I've done a lot of bindings. There's also a huge focus on business development at every level. So I do a lot of data entry of potential clients. I also do company profiles for upcoming conferences. In terms of actual banking work, I've been exposed to some modelling, but the firm I work with works with small (50MM - 150MM EV) companies and the clients tend to have a number in mind when they sell, so beyond 3 statement modelling there isn't a lot of modelling. I help out a lot with powerpoints though. I'll do a slide here or there in most of the presentations made. In my spare time I've made a DCF and LBO and asked an analyst to review it for me. But ultimately, I have a lot of free time. At least at the place I'm at, even though it's a busy firm, they have a good number of junior staff, and truth be told, they don't have much use of an intern at 40 hours a week, 20 sure, but 40 no. So half my time, like right now, I screw around on the internet. I've been told this is relativity common though. That being said, in interviews I've had for next summer, this internship has been a huge talking point. And even more than that, as a nontarget student, it shows interviewers that I have the ability to win offers.
My plan was to secure an internship by the end of the Fall and recruit for my junior summer in the Spring. But they pushed back recruiting a lot this year from last year and so junior applications were mostly late Summer and are going to continue into the early Fall.
How’d you make the “ask” when speaking with these boutiques? In the past, I have been asking, “what is the best way to gain experience” with little success.
I interned at a boutique sophomore summer in the closest major city to my college. Look for alumni at your school or at a rival school in the region, network with them. Sell yourself as someone who doesn't need a lot of help and can provide value. Boutiques don't have as much time to spend holding your hand compared to BB.
My interview process was late spring, lots of boutiques have a later timeline in my experience. Had one phone call, then 3-4 weeks went by and I went in person and spent about 30 minutes interviewing with each team member. Got the offer two weeks before school ended (thank god). I worked 45-50 hours a week, did lots of research in the beginning but then I gained trust and was able to craft my own role a bit more, doing a little modeling and deck building.
You will know when a shop is legit or not, but one indicator is looking at previous experience of the people that work there. Are they from other banks, big 4, etc., or are they from sketchy places? Ask (in a finessed way) what their valuation focus is. My boutique wouldn't do deals with companies below and over certain EBITDA, revenue, etc. I had a great time and really loved the team, it was my first IB experience and it made me more certain than ever this was what I wanted. Best of luck and PM if you want more details.
Nice, what were the interviews like questions wise, and how many boutiques did you apply to/network with? (I know you said PM you but I think I ran out of PMs for the day lol
Questions were behavioral and basic technicals on accounting, valuation, and multiples. If you have the interview guides just brush up on the basic sections, I don't think small shops will hit you with a paper LBO or anything too advanced. I didn't have a huge network at the time, I applied to probably 5-10 places and made sure to crush the interview cause it was my last opportunity.
You're in a very good place timing wise, my networking advice would be to get at least two solid connections at each place you are interested in. If you do this for the next 3-4 months you will definitely get interviews.
Finishing up a sophomore boutique internship right now! Biggest thing I could recommend is emailing alumni from your school at small boutiques in the area you wanted to work in (I targeted two big cities and just emailed a bunch of people out there).
For me, the process was basically a networking call, then an informational interview, then a brief technical interview (nothing too hard - basic accounting + valuation), and then a conversation with an MD and then I received the offer. I was in college during this and they didn't fly me out for anything, so I kind of went in blind for the internship. Hours aren't too bad; 9am-8pm most days. Feel free to PM if you have any questions
How long are the SA role's usually? A couple months? I've never gotten my own apartment before so doing it in a different city would be interesting, but I'm sure I could try to live with one of my buddies in the area and if I have to I'd definitely be willing to.
How many boutiques did you apply to and how did you network with them?
Also there's one of my school alumni I found at a boutique that has a location in an area I'm interested in working in, except this alum is based in a different city. Is it still worth it to reach out to him do you think since he could still help me get connected somehow or should I just cold email the people at the location I'm interested in?
SA roles are usually 8-10 weeks. I actually was originally planning on working at a HF for sophomore summer, but decided I wanted to get some banking experience so I probably cold emailed around 10-15 boutiques in the city I was planning on working in. Basically I just emailed them and was like hey, i'm a sophomore at (West Coast Target) and am interested in IB. I was wondering if you had time for a brief phone call? I basically just talked to them about their experiences at the firm and asked for any advice on breaking in -- and then at the end, if it went well, I asked if they had SA roles for sophomores.
A lot of banks don't have traditional recruitment processes for sophomores if you're not interviewing at a BB (I'm not sure if you're diversity - but if you are, definitely apply to all the BBs for their programs), so you basically just have to talk to people at the firm, hope they like you, and then the interview process is kind of all over the place.
Its definitely worth emailing anyone from your school who is working at banking - even if they can't necessarily offer you an internship, it's a good learning experience + they can offer advice for other banks that they think you should reach out to (on one of my calls, the alum said they didn't have a process but referred me to a few of his buddies who were at other banks).
Feel free to PM if you have more questions -- this is pretty long winded haha.
This reads like a Jordan Belfort pitch to interns.
What did you do to prepare for your internship.
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