HSW MBA w/ Banking&PE Experience Considering Banking Again
Hey guys, I've been following this site for the past 9 years while I was still looking for summer analyst positions in college; never thought that I would be writing this kind of post!
To make things short, I'm currently a HSW MBA student with investment banking and PE experience; yes I did the typical finance track that is very well understood on this board. HOWEVER, now that I am almost done with the MBA (have 1 more year of vacation), I really started considering 1) What the fuck do I really want to do with my life and 2) What is most actionable. I really like the transaction and deal-oriented environment of investment banking; perhaps my PE firm was not large enough and I did not experience the same intensity or deal flow that I did while I was in banking.
Also, at the senior level, I do view banking as a very interesting career as you start to get more into the sales aspects of the job. From the most actionable perspective, I realized that PE post MBA is much harder than people think. I've interviewed with tons of PE firms for summer associate positions and didn't land a spot. I will likely continue trying but at this point I have to consider other routes, like doing banking and then trying to switch to a MM PE firm in 1-2 years.
So, I am considering banking as a FT career post MBA AGAIN. My question to the more experienced bankers out there is: what are the issues with receiving applications from MBA students with my background? I have the sense that banks like to mold fresh students, and bringing back analysts is not always welcome, especially if they've gone through the PE tracks before the MBA. Finally, how should I spin my story to convey the fact that I really want to do banking, AGAIN?
Would love to hear the thoughts of senior finance professionals on this board, not necessarily the junior ppl who think my idea probably sounds ridiculous. Thanks.
Your peers are probably the best people to turn to IMO. It may be tough to find a good answer to such a specific scenario on this board. I'm sure there are plenty of other MBA candidates in your shoes that also had trouble landing summer associate PE positions, regardless of their pre-MBA background.
I know you're looking for advice from more senior professionals, but I've been reading WSO for a while and from what I can tell, it looks like post-MBA IB associates have a much harder time trying to break into PE than those at the analyst level. It's assumed that those who go into banking post-MBA are in it for the long run, so it would be a bit bizarre if they saw you as an associate who is looking to exit ASAP. PE firms may also look at you as someone who just screwed up during the MBA recruiting process, which could serve to be a pretty big turn off.
Again, I'm definitely not a "senior finance professional" so take what I'm saying with a huge grain of salt.
As long as you have a decent story (sounds like you do) of why you want to do banking again, it shouldn't be a problem at all. You might want to focus on boutiques/smaller banks that will value your well rounded skill set and ability to help train analysts versus BBs. I was an Assoc/VP at a boutique (after being a BB analyst), and we wouldn't have had any problem with your background.
mergersandacquisitions78 Dingdong08 DickFuld SSits will be your best sources of advice here. you and I are likely the same age so my opinion isn't really relevant. the only comment I'll make is that I love sales (PWM), and if you do well you'll love it too.
Not a banker but on the PE side. I don't think there's anything crazy about it if you liked banking more. Do what you like. You're going to do more deals in IB than PE in almost every fund (maybe some of the growth equity funds that focus on platforms and do tons of bolt-on's compare in number of deals) whereas in PE you're going to look at dozens or hundreds of potential deals for every one you do so if you like doing tons of deals, and if the sales and client aspects of it appeals to you, go for it. You may have a hard time breaking into PE if you do more than a few years of banking and the bigger funds may not be available because they tend to have more formal bschool recruiting.
One of the good things in banking compared to PE is that PE is getting pretty clogged up at the top of the pyramid so it's pretty tough to get on the partner track even if you're good and it's more difficult to bounce around firms (generally people join a fund and are lifers-yes there are exceptions so someone will say they know a guy who moved around, but generally guys get on a partner track and stay forever and if they don't get on a partner track they leave the pure PE biz, go to something like mezz, a BDC or move to an operating company).
Like I said, I'm not a banker but I'd have a hard time thinking you couldn't get back into IB pretty easily after school. You'll have plenty of time to tell your story. And like I said, do what you like. People, especially kids on here, get caught up in the buyside prestige crap but bankers make a shit ton of money and it's a pretty cool job. I know more than a few career bankers and they love what they do. They look at my job and try to figure out why I'd ever want to go through so much due diligence, deep dive into companies, have to deal with them for 5-10 years and have to answer to LP's.
Don't worry, I know a few people who had your background and ended up back in banking. The sad truth is only 10% or so of HSW students with PE backgrounds get post MBA PE positions given the scarcity of the jobs. I know of people who ended up doing GS or Blackstone banking and then moving to MM PE afterwards. You shouldn't have anything to worry about.
That math seems suspect. 17% of HBS' incoming class did VC/PE (which is higher than prior years, I believe), and 15% of the class of 2014 exited to VC/PE. I can't imagine Stanford and Wharton are considerably worse.
Honestly, it's anecdotal, so I can't confirm the accuracy, but I suspect my friend meant megafund recruiting, so you may have KKR pre MBA trickle down to MM PE, but that means MM PE and below get cut out. He did mention the KKR/Blackstone level funds don't even bother with OCR, they just invite people to interview.
Thanks for the feedback guys. kakaman , my plan is to do exactly that - get in to a top group / top bank and keep my MM PE options open. If I decide to become a career banker then I'd at least like to be in a place that gets the best deals and has the best people. Even though I did BB IBD >> PE >> HSW, I have the sense that I will have to demonstrate and explain really well why I want to go back to banking - and I can't fuck this explanation up once I get the interview. That is why I'd like to get the opinion of Senior Associates / VP's at BB and top boutiques and see what their views are on people with my background. TechBanking your feedback was really helpful!
The handful of people I know had no issue with their "why banking" story. In fact, you are a perfect candidate for Sponsors groups, so chances are you will be highly recruited.
I have no advice to offer as I am only an analyst, but good luck. We need more associates who used to be analysts.
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I'm a junior in my team (and in London where MBAs are viewed quite differently), so take the below as you want (maybe with a pinch of salt) -
While recruiting for summer associates, one of my VPs (now director) interviewed one guy with a background in IB (along with other MBA candidates), who then wanted to move back into IB post MBA, but to a 'better' bank.
Basically, my director dismissed him right away and kept on going on about it back up in the office, how he didn't get why you would want to step out of IB to take a year or two off to only land back in it again. He also mentioned the candidate did not have a good answer as to why he wanted to go back, so maybe that was the issue - no story.
I thought his view was ridiculous, but that's me, the junior.
Can you elaborate on the different views on MBAs in London?
Basically the way I see it is as follows (this is not having worked in NYC)
1) In the US, MBAs are standard and people like hiring them into banks. The summer associate programs are bigger, and you find more senior people with MBAs. Maybe this has to do with the 2 year analyst contracts that (I think) are still predominant in the US. Just look at the senior folk at all the big banks, a good amount of them have MBAs. There is also a basic analysis on this in efinancial careers, if you search for MBA vs. Masters degrees in finance or something similar you should be able to find it. 2) In the UK, the typical path I see from senior folk here is undergrad to bank and that's it. Maybe they came from a corporate or similar, but there is rarely and MBA degree. My bank just started the summer associate program this year and its for like 4 guys I think (i'm at a BB). I don't even know how many of the other banks have such programs, but would be surprised if most don't. Even outside of banking here people don't seem to view an MBA as value adding, which I would tend to disagree with.
EDIT: This is a reply to a question above, sorry quote button didn't work.
I think that makes sense. Associates, while admittedly no more important than analysts are viewed as slightly more long-term employees than analysts. Someone in that position seems like either a constant "upgrader" for more prestige where they're going to bounce to a more prestigious firm after a year, or someone's backup plan in which case they're probably gone in two years. Like you said, you need a reasonable story to explain your path (and that guy evidently didn't) or people are going to question your motives. In a market with plenty of qualified candidates why not opt for the guy who genuinely wants to be there rather than someone who seems like they could be restless.
It's an interesting choice, but not necessarily a bad move. I did banking, went to get an MBA from a top 5 school, and went back. Banking can be miserable at times, but it's not a bad career. And I think the guy that posted earlier about the pyramid getting real tight at the top of PE firms is spot on.
You already know all of the drawbacks of going back to banking; it's the devil you know. But the bright side is that you'll be at a significant advantage over fresh MBAs who have never done the job, and you'll bring a unique perspective from having been on the buyside before.
At the end of the day, it's a personal decision and you need to do some soul searching. The good news is that even if you decide to go back and you end up hating it, you have a network from your pre-MBA experience as well as one from your MBA program to leverage in finding the next opportunity.
As someone who considered FT banking after a consulting internship and without much relevant experience beforehand, I can say it should be pretty easy for you to land a decent Associate job fulltime if that's what you want. You need to keep in touch with your classmates who are interning at the top banks because there probably won't be too many spots available for non-interns but so long as you have some relationships you should be able to work your way through the unofficial processes. If that doesn't work out, you should still get some OCR from a handful of "top" banks. I think they will appreciate your background, you just need to articulate that you've tried other roles after your banking stint and have come to the conclusion that you're most passionate about a longterm banking career. You just need to do a little networking at the end of the summer. Hope that helps.
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