HYP v. State school

Some people would have you think that there is a massive difference between Harvard and Wharton MBAs ... I think education is what you make of it. If you study hard, you can get the same education at Harvard as you could at a public library, often said, but true.

p.s, use the search function mate.

i agree with the above but in terms of recruiting, yes yes yes. dunno if id say that penn state is on same level at michigan/texas/berkeley.. penn/uconn/maryland id say (tier below? but still public ivies i think)

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I can't speak to the Ivy education, but I do know that state school kids get to the same places, and I'm not even talking about the overachievers who "kill themselves" trying to do everything to make it happen. I and several of my friends from state schools got great offers at various companies and we probably had a lot more fun than some kids at Ivies (though not all cuz I have some friends at Ivies who partied and got great grades too). For the most part what I think a lot of state school kids take away from their 4 years is that they aren't tied to the outcome in the same way that a lot of Ivy league kids are. A lot of kids go to Ivy league schools and they allow that to be their identity. I am sure you get a phenomenal education and that's something no one can ever take away from you, but ultimately I really don't think it gets you anywhere that a bright kid from a state school can't get to. I say this only from personal experience, being a bright, albeit normal kid who went to a state school because, apart from absolutely loving the school he chose and coming from a family who all went there, he couldn't afford to attend an Ivy. This is the kind of topic that can be debated all over the place for a great deal of time, but I think the biggest difference that will separate people is an elitist attitude. I know kids from state schools that had it, and I have met kids from Ivies that have had it (Note: this is merely observation as the converse is surely true in substantial measure at both as well), but that's what keeps people from reaching their potential. Someone can say, "Oh, I went to X school, so I will invariably go further than someone who went to Y school..." but that doesn't make it true. I interviewed against a lot of kids from a lot of great schools, but the thing that is unmistakeably present in people who make it to where they want to get to is persistence, drive, and humility. Never let your pride for your school/background/achievements keep you from acknowledging that there are people everywhere who can do what you do better than you can, and even though you have the pedigree at a certain point it really comes down to ability...

Man... if I'm still sad because I didn't get into HYP (even though I didn't apply) when I'm in my mid-to-late twenties, that''s gonna be pretty weird.

I could see why you would regret it but... biggest regret in your life? it's a whole different life/WORLD better? Come on, how would you even know that? Stop worrying about it (it's not gonna change) and make them look like morons for denying you.

Is it too late for grad school for you two?

Ya, obviously if you can get into them then for sure go, but don't regret it for the rest of your life if you don't lol

Besides, I tend to have a lil more respect for people that eventually achieve as much as HYP grads if they went to some lesser school... Like I do when I hear about those kids that grow up poor with shitty parents that get accepted to HYP because they worked their ass off to do more with less.

Believe me. I would LOVE to go to HBS eventually, but if I don't get in then, like I said, I'm gonna try to make them look like morons for denying me... if you're a truly successful person then I don't think that not going to Harvard's gonna stop you.

good luck on HBS

Yeah, in the end it's what you make of it... A psychologist was talking to my class a couple months ago and one of the things I took note of was when she said that the most successful people tend to do stuff for themselves without comparing their achievements (in a bad way) to others'.

Hell, I fucked around in high school, thought I wanted to go to a music recording school, and just went to my local cc for an associates in music. Now I changed to accounting and am waiting on a response from the University of MIchigan. No regrets. If you can't change it fuck it. Today's a new day and I learned a lot during that time that HYP couldn't teach me.

Alright, I need to get to bed. This lack of sleep is messin with me lol.

I think we're all victim to the social framework that's been established by HYP, with the framework being that HYP is on another level in every aspect compared to any other college. While it may be true to some extent, there's no reason why the framework can't be eroded over time. If you go to a good school not HYP, fuck the regrets and do the best you can to make your alma mater better, that way it not only benefits you but your inferiority mentality. I don't go to HYP, and sometimes I do regret not being able to go, but I've realized it's way more productive to think about ways to improve the prestige and quality of my school by shit like recruiting bright high school kids to come, being active on campus, and shooting for success so that there will be another famous alumnus that can attract the best talent for the school. To me, that's way more rewarding than succeeding by default even though it might be the easy way out.

There was an interesting study on this a few years ago. Cliff notes in the link below:

http://www.brookings.edu/articles/2004/10education_easterbrook.aspx

The researchers Alan Krueger and Stacy Berg Dale began investigating this question, and in 1999 produced a study that dropped a bomb on the notion of elite-college attendance as essential to success later in life. Krueger, a Princeton economist, and Dale, affiliated with the Andrew Mellon Foundation, began by comparing students who entered Ivy League and similar schools in 1976 with students who entered less prestigious colleges the same year. They found, for instance, that by 1995 Yale graduates were earning 30 percent more than Tulane graduates, which seemed to support the assumption that attending an elite college smoothes one's path in life.

But maybe the kids who got into Yale were simply more talented or hardworking than those who got into Tulane. To adjust for this, Krueger and Dale studied what happened to students who were accepted at an Ivy or a similar institution, but chose instead to attend a less sexy, "moderately selective" school. It turned out that such students had, on average, the same income twenty years later as graduates of the elite colleges. Krueger and Dale found that for students bright enough to win admission to a top school, later income "varied little, no matter which type of college they attended." In other words, the student, not the school, was responsible for the success.

Another study found a statistically significant difference in lifetime earnings between Ivy League grads and similarly talented grads of lesser schools. However, in real terms the difference was not so great:

Some analysts maintain that there are indeed significant advantages to the most selective schools. For instance, a study by Caroline Hoxby, a Harvard economist who has researched college outcomes, suggests that graduates of elite schools do earn more than those of comparable ability who attended other colleges. Hoxby studied male students who entered college in 1982, and adjusted for aptitude, though she used criteria different from those employed by Krueger and Dale. She projected that among students of similar aptitude, those who attended the most selective colleges would earn an average of $2.9 million during their careers; those who attended the next most selective colleges would earn $2.8 million; and those who attended all other colleges would average $2.5 million. This helped convince Hoxby that top applicants should, in fact, lust after the most exclusive possibilities.

Moral of the story: Cream always rises. Smart, hard-working people tend to succeed, from New Haven to Madison.

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InB4 Illini's three paragraphs on state schools!

Lol, Pymp just got burried knee deep in monkey shit by this thread.

Pymp is more or less getting shit on haha

First off, why does everyone continue to poo on Pimp who is just giving his opinion. Second off, i definetly didn't have a snowball's chance in hell of getting into any Ivy let alone a top ivy (didn't even know there were top ivy's until recently). But looking back i wouldn't change a thing, i know i may not have the ivy name on my resume but what does that prove? The fact that I wasn't dedicated at age 14-17? Fuck no i wasn't dedicated at that age, but kudos to those who were. I went to college to learn life experiences (ie. fuck, smoke and drink) and learn basic financial analysis and accounting. I graduated and networked my ass off for my current gig and will continue to bust my ass like the Tom Brady that i am (drafted 199th overall). Different strokes for different folks, all i know is that my Intermediate accounting books had the same material in them that kids over at Wharton were using, college is and always will be what you put into it. That being said, i'm glad as fuck i now have a badass college football team to cheer for and a solid alumni base full of aspiring Tom Brady's.....

HFFBall, I couldn't agree more.

yeah, I don't understand why pymp got that much shit thrown on him... but right on hff and harvardorbust, I like your attitudes lol

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In before illinois programmer argues Illinois + other state school honors > Harvard

watch good will hunting. there is a scene where will tells off a harvard phd for overpaying for an education he could have gotten for 1.50 in late fees at the public library.

that being said, i don't believe the education means shit. its just the branding. not everyone is fucking will hunting. and though i try to be, i pale in comparison.

Someone needs to take it easy on the laxatives.

Is the education better? Probably, but it's comparing apples to oranges. In my intro finance course, there were 700+ students in it, there is no way I would've gotten an equal or better education than I would have at HYP.

It all comes down to how you learn best. At Penn State I had to be motivated to learn because there were tons of distractions, including your professor having no idea who you were.

Pimp, Wish i had a SB for ya to counter all the idiots who hurled poo at you for no reason (this comment hopefully doesn't get poo hurled at me)

I am very happy with my current position but sometimes in the back on my mind I wish I had applied to Ivies UG...not saying that I would have gotten in but it would be interesting to know how different things would be now. I graduated from a good state school. Unfortunately, I had the misfortune of graduating in May 2009 - times like that are when the HYP diploma comes in handy due to the size and power of the alumni base.

I had to take the an unconventional route to get my foot in finance. Maybe those of us who had to work harder to get our spots will appreciate it more and ultimately become harder workers? I mean I tell myself that stuff so I dont dwell on the past haha.

The only good thing to come from all of this is that I am not allowing my younger siblings to make the same mistake I did by choosing partying over connections (I do however take pride in partying abilities) And I am sure I will try to make sure my future kids dont make that same mistake.

HarvardorBust summed it up. We have to work our tails off, again, to make sure the universities we did graduate from get the respect they diserve. At the end of the day we all used the same books to learn the same things...

I'd also like to add, intelligence can be measured in a variety of ways. Some are mathmatically gifted, some are spacially gifted (athletes), and others are more literature/english minds. There may be more correlations here in HYP alumni success than just pure brains...connections, upbrining, and not to mention a preconceived notion that they are all smarter than their counterparts at UT, Michigan, or Berkley. I know for a fact that i was not capable of getting into HYP but don't doubt for a second that if i had attended those schools i would have rose to the occassion and competed for the A;s and B's. I went to by far the least prestigious school out of my colleagues, but in no way lack the intellectual capacity to perform my job.....just saying. Let the poo throwing commence.

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Don't bullshit a bullshitter....

Wow, i just realized i got shit on 3 times for defending Pimp. I now believe banana points to be complete bullshit. I'm about 2 shits away from just living on bill simmons' blog and becoming a troll on WSO in my spare time.

Definitely more distinguished faculty at HYP (and accompanying teaching quality/thought leadership) - though Berkeley, UVA, Michigan do give a lot of Ivies a run for their money in the research realm.

What's the consensus?

manbearpig, yes i am retarded and was refering to kinesthetic intelligence.

I think one of the biggest things about being at a top target (HYPS) is the connections. It's kind of absurd when you look around at the parents of the kids who are going to these schools. I'm not going to name names, and obviously its like everyone's father is Lloyd Blankfein or Bill Gates, but a lot of very, very successful people send their kids to places like HYP, which is definitely one of the selling points for going that I don't think people realize when they're in high school, but becomes apparent very quickly when you're in college.

lol i scroll down and all i see is red

This thread was the shit. Now thats a shitty Situation.