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got a SA but had an IB internship on my resume which I completely made up, since it was unpaid, can I just put my friend as the contact for that internship and he could act like my boss... Ik this is unethical and shit but can someone give me honest advice?

Comments (125)

 
  • Intern in IB-M&A
Aug 12, 2020 - 11:37am

bump

Array
 
  • Analyst 2 in IB - Ind
Aug 12, 2020 - 11:47am

So just to get this straight, you completely fabricated having a summer IB internship and lied to recruiters so that you could be a more competitive applicant, but justified it by saying your fake internship was unpaid? Now you are asking for advice from strangers online on how to cover it up/avoid being blackballed?

 
  • Intern in IB - Ind
Aug 14, 2020 - 8:29pm

this is fucked lol i got second hand anxiety reading this

Array

 
  • Intern in IB - Gen
Aug 12, 2020 - 11:55am

What was your plan here? Of course they were gonna call to confirm

What’s past is past and can’t be undone. It has led to the circumstances we now face. All we can do is recognize our circumstances for what they are and make the best decisions we can, “given the givens."  - Howard Marks

 
  • Prospect in IB-M&A
Aug 12, 2020 - 12:07pm

This is a troll. No one in their right mind would do this and make it this far

Array
 
Aug 12, 2020 - 12:30pm

Prospect in IB-M&A:

This is a troll. No one in their right mind would do this and make it this far

Epstein just made shit up on his resume too to get in the door.

“Michael Tennenbaum, a Bear Stearns executive who hired Epstein — and kept him on even after he found out Epstein’s résumé was bogus.”

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.washingtonpost.com/entertainment/tv/ne…

"If you always put limits on everything you do, physical or anything else, it will spread into your work and into your life. There are no limits. There are only plateaus, and you must not stay there, you must go beyond them." - Bruce Lee

 
Most Helpful
Aug 12, 2020 - 12:08pm

I'd inform bb that you can no longer do the internship due to family issues.

Begin recruiting for ib internships in a different product sector and location - explain you received an offer from x bb but had to decline as it was not a good cultural and location fit for you. You have your heart set on Chicago MM ECM or NYC restructuring and would rather pursue it over your previous offer etc.

Firms will never know why you really declined but you can at least peacock your BB offer (which signals prestige to a degree). Just show the new firms your real non lying resume.

honestly when done right this is a smart play. lie heavily on resume to get a elite top offer. Before firm can DD your background - start recruiting for other firms with the offer in hand as leverage while using your real resume. Reneg or decline offer received through lying. You may have just discovered an unethical life hack.

 
  • VP in IB-M&A
Aug 13, 2020 - 1:41pm

This could also backfire. It just sounds fishy. "I got a BB IBD offer in NYC, but declined it as I would prefer to work at [INSERT LESSER KNOWN BANK IN A SMALLER CITY]". If I were interviewing this person, I would immediately email/call up anyone I know at the BB bank to get their side of the story.

BUT, I guess it is one alternative to approach the situation...

 
Aug 13, 2020 - 4:56pm

I don't know. All he has to say is he didn't like his product/sector he was supposed to work with and after more networking has decided he wants ECM or restructuring or whatever area he begins to target next. Hell could even be S&T (even better story....decided I want S&T now after networking and more research). The BB offer will look good to them and give OP some credibility.

If the new bank calls the old BB, they won't have a story to tell other than he interviewed well and we gave him an offer. No one is going to have time to start doing background call checks to further investigate why he may have turned it down. People turn down offers and reneg A LOT. It's common.

 
Aug 17, 2020 - 12:34am

BadDealFlow12:

honestly when done right this is a smart play. lie heavily on resume to get a elite top offer. Before firm can DD your background - start recruiting for other firms with the offer in hand as leverage while using your real resume. Reneg or decline offer received through lying. You may have just discovered an unethical life hack.

No

"If you always put limits on everything you do, physical or anything else, it will spread into your work and into your life. There are no limits. There are only plateaus, and you must not stay there, you must go beyond them." - Bruce Lee

 
  • Intern in IB - Ind
Aug 12, 2020 - 12:23pm

Yknow HR will just google the firm/whatever your friend says his name is right? Even if you put his contact down they’re not that fucking dumb to think a completely made up investment bank exists

 
  • Analyst 1 in S&T - Equities
Aug 12, 2020 - 12:35pm

I never lied on my resume but I did have an internship at REALLY unknown place, that literally only had 2 people. It was a really informal thing when I was just starting out. So only way to confirm it was to actually call them/email them.

So I know for sure that they never called to verify it because I spoke to my then-manager and she was never contacted. Passed the BG check with flying colors (this was at a BB some years ago).

Point is, the possibility exists that you can pull it off. Not ethical and can backfire massively. And I would recommend you do not go through with it.

Edit:
I should add that these background checks done to SA are not very thorough. Many interns have random experiences, often times at very small/unknown places so it can be difficult to double-check everything. So sometimes they let things slide as you are just an intern.

However, for FT offers the story is different. They do check everything, contact employers, and so on. So very hard to pull off for FT.

 
Aug 12, 2020 - 12:39pm

I’m not supporting what you did, I’m just saying I think you should be fine as long as the unpaid internship was at a real company. I really don’t think BB’s will take the time to fact check all hundreds of their interns and their experience (IB, tech, s and t, prob a few hundred interns nation wide). Again, I’m not supporting what you did and I never fabricated my resume, but just imagine how the conversation would go for all 500+ interns.

“Hey did so and so work here last summer?”
“......yeah? Who is this?”
“Just the HR for the new place so and so wants to work at. And did he/she work on this deal, do this presentation, and learn this skill?”
“......sure?”
“Thanks!”

 
Aug 12, 2020 - 12:41pm

Not condoning this so don't misconstrue the below....

Banks as far as I know do not do background checks on internships. Certainly they ask for a transcript, verify that + school and do a criminal background check, but I know for certain that when I was interning and joining FT, none of my previous internships were diligenced by HR. It's possible that this has changed in the last few years, but I don't think HR is going around calling firms to verify.

Honestly, so many people intern these days at random shops off-contract and unpaid, that there would be no proof (apart from someone vocally confirming). Anyways, whether you want to take that risk or not is up to you, and would reiterate the others' points that it is totally unethical.

 
  • Prospect in IB-M&A
Aug 12, 2020 - 12:42pm

What if I lied about working as a tutor for a year when in reality I worked there only for 6 months? Do BBs fact check all employment experience or only relevant finance ones?

Array
 
  • Intern in Other
Aug 12, 2020 - 1:02pm

They check everything listed under 'Work Experience'.
- start, end dates
- title

I had worked on a cruise ship for a summer but was paid per hour and no contract, and HR asked me to sign an affidavit confirming that since there was no proof. so do not lie about dates definitely, you can get away with experiences etc

 
  • Associate 1 in RE - Comm
Aug 14, 2020 - 11:50am

Question, but what if you had a pretty broad title, and lied about the experience? Like a lot of PE firms or F500 firms use financial analyst. Like if I said I worked for a F500 firm in corporate development with a title of financial analyst, do they verify what you did if the title and dates are correct?

 
  • Intern in Other
Aug 12, 2020 - 1:33pm

This is some Mike Ross ishhhh

Array

 
  • Prospect in IB - Gen
Aug 12, 2020 - 1:53pm

What if your internship was "cancelled" but you got paid a part of the salary and did bs training for like 40 hrs through that company as a substitute program? Would they care since a.) you got paid a certain amount b.) you did something with them

I feel like that would get a pass this summer due to covid and a lot of kids could be in that boat.

 
Aug 12, 2020 - 2:12pm

A few weeks before the internship they will conduct a background check, where they’ll have you list contact info for the companies you listed, so they can verify. Same applies for schools. They even go through court records and the federal bureau. You will definitely be caught red handed, so renege now, because if accused of fabricating, the bank will contact every other firm on the street, and you’ll be blacklisted for life (that’s actually an HR thing, they blacklist profiles). Don’t kill your reputation and future for an internship. Renege now so you don’t ruin your life.

“It takes 30 years to build your reputation, and 30 seconds to destroy it”.

 
  • Prospect in IB - Gen
Aug 12, 2020 - 11:53pm

OP said he would use a friend to act as a boss at what I am presumably guessing is a no name shop

Array
 
  • Intern in IB-M&A
Aug 12, 2020 - 3:58pm

For my SA, we uploaded a resume and had to input work history directly to the background check company. They claimed they verified it against the resume that we submitted for the role, but I took something off my resume in that time period (not a lie, just some high school job that was no longer relevant) and it was never asked about. So there’s a chance u can just upload a new resume to the background check and hope they don’t compare it against the ones in your file

Array
 
Aug 12, 2020 - 11:02pm

I kinda hate people who do this but the advice on this thread is actually so good that this could become a legitimate strategy.

Dayman?
 
  • Associate 1 in IB - Gen
Aug 12, 2020 - 11:15pm

Go through with it and see what happens...
Worst case scenario quick legal name change and do it all over again

Array
 
Aug 12, 2020 - 11:48pm

I dont think banks will check against your paper resume that youve given them, or even a digital version for that matter. What will happen is that when your onboarding begins, a 3rd party firm will reach out to you and ask you to provide all of your previous work experience.

Once they have a list of your work experience with dates, contact info, etc. they will begin contacting them to verify that you worked there. However, they have no way of knowing that you worked somewhere unless you explicitly told them- there is no hard copy for them to compare against. Furthermore, on the off chance that HR will ask for your "paper" resume during onboarding give them an updated version that removes the internship in question and on the double off chance that they recognize a discrepancy just say that you were going to work there but it was cancelled and you forgot to remove it as it was very last moment and see where it goes (the chances that things get this far are extremely slim and even if they do they might say fuck it and move on).

Barring any of aforementioned resume nonsense simply do not tell the 3rd party about this internship and say that it was a time of unemployment or student, something to that effect and then it will never be looked into in the first place. Many ways to play this off, just have to be creative and create an airtight plan

Good luck.

 
  • Consultant in Consulting
Aug 13, 2020 - 1:16am

ime the report is sent to HR at the company, who will verify that they checked everything on your resume. idk if that holds for this particular bank but for my FT offer that's what happened, and they were very thorough

Array
 
Aug 15, 2020 - 3:04pm

Brownfield Capital:

I dont think banks will check against your paper resume that youve given them, or even a digital version for that matter. What will happen is that when your onboarding begins, a 3rd party firm will reach out to you and ask you to provide all of your previous work experience.

Once they have a list of your work experience with dates, contact info, etc. they will begin contacting them to verify that you worked there. However, they have no way of knowing that you worked somewhere unless you explicitly told them- there is no hard copy for them to compare against. Furthermore, on the off chance that HR will ask for your "paper" resume during onboarding give them an updated version that removes the internship in question and on the double off chance that they recognize a discrepancy just say that you were going to work there but it was cancelled and you forgot to remove it as it was very last moment and see where it goes (the chances that things get this far are extremely slim and even if they do they might say fuck it and move on).

Barring any of aforementioned resume nonsense simply do not tell the 3rd party about this internship and say that it was a time of unemployment or student, something to that effect and then it will never be looked into in the first place. Many ways to play this off, just have to be creative and create an airtight plan

Good luck.

this is the best response, everyone here is bunch of p$sies

 
  • Consultant in Consulting
Aug 13, 2020 - 1:16am

Turn down the offer, fix your resume, and recruit for different places.

Array
 
Aug 13, 2020 - 5:24am

How about this? You turn down the offer, you remove the fake internship on your resume. You add the offer you turned down on your resume and write u turned down due to "location or some shit". Maybe not the same as doing the internship but at least u dont start your career on a lie.

 
  • Works at Morgan Stanley
Aug 13, 2020 - 7:47am

I really, really, really hope it's not Morgan Stanley. Don't do this dude, trust is hard won and easily lost.

 
  • Intern in IB-M&A
Aug 13, 2020 - 11:24am

x

Array
 
Aug 13, 2020 - 6:30pm

Just go through with it, are they really going to check and call for every single applicant they accepted? I don't think so, only if you're unlucky.

I know a lot of international students fabricate their shit too

Array

 
  • Prospect in IB - Gen
Aug 17, 2020 - 7:42pm

If you read previous threads about background checks, companies running them are operating in pretty much all countries, including China and Korea.

Array
 
Aug 13, 2020 - 11:16pm

I don't know if I'm more impressed you pulled it off and got an offer, or that your coerced you're way in but I'll endorse you're LinkedIn story telling skill

Jack
 
  • Intern in RE - Res
Aug 14, 2020 - 1:53am

Can’t believe people like you literally lie to get offers and all this firm bitches about is diversity recruiting. Hope you get blasted.

Array
 
  • Prospect in AM - Equities
Aug 14, 2020 - 5:13am

You're on the path to become the future president, son. The burden of your country will be on your shoulders. You will tell people how great you were as an investment banker and how you know to make deals. And I will just laugh at you while watching you on the TV for my entertainment or maybe not. Maybe it would be better than those late night shows. It'll be fun to see you being sued by some pornstar as well. Wouldn't it all be sweet? Well this fantasy may have put a smile on your face, but those investment bankers aren't stupid enough that they won't smell a shit from you when you'll talk to them. You still have a chance son to stay quiet and back off, if you really are stuck in this mess. You are a puppy who will be eaten by those wolves.

 
  • Analyst 2 in Other
Aug 14, 2020 - 8:43am

Don't think you necessarily deserve help but here goes:

I did some unpaid work that wasn't in the context of a formal internship for an organization and put it on my resume and on my Hireright screen ... the people from Hireright called and were like "you've never worked there! and aren't in the records!" Then I explained the innocent mistake / confusion and sent over non-classified work product. It wasn't my sophomore year internship or anything - honestly there was no reason to list it anyways.

But the takeaway for you is: you could probably get away not listing the internship on the Hireright application and no one will be any the better - rule of thumb, give them as little as you can to make the process as quick and painless as possible. Especially at a junior level they're also just checking that you're not a felon, actually go to your school, etc. If the BB HR team asks, just specify it was unpaid and off-record, and say you're happy to provide a contact for reference. But I highly doubt they'd ever see the omission - they would just know that your Hireright cleared. I really wouldn't turn down the BB offer just yet.

Agree with the other posters on the thread - to hedge, spread a non-fake resume far and wide trying to recruit elsewhere, and reach out to EB heads in particular saying you have the BB offer - sure they'd appreciate wanting to work on a general M&A team vs. pitchbooks or industry slides at a BB. Probably better for your PE recruiting options too.

 
  • Prospect in IB - Gen
Aug 14, 2020 - 10:42am

How did the hire right people know you neverworked there did they just do a database search for the company, asking because I did an off the record internship but a quick call to my boss would make it easy to confirm

Array
 
  • Prospect in IB - Gen
Aug 14, 2020 - 12:56pm

Do background check companies give you a chance to explain if something doesn't match up? or is it just an automatic fail and your offer is rescinded?

Array
 
  • Intern in IB - Gen
Aug 17, 2020 - 8:30am

Yes, they will. And if it doesn’t match up just be prepared to explain that you told them in the interview, if they even ask. They are looking for major discrepancies, ie complete falsifications of where you worked and in some cases divisions (Don't put MS IBD if you were in a sattilite WM office). It will be a problem if they call this IB and the guy says he has never heard of this guy. You are fine, and the key is YOU ACTUALLY DID THE WORK unlike OP.

 
Aug 15, 2020 - 3:01pm

Analyst 2 in RE - Comm:

At this point the deed is done. Let it play out and try to slip through the cracks. This is your one shot at BB banking. It doesn't sound like you have (or ever will) the resume needed to get into BB IB. If you get blacklisted - fuck it - you probably didn't have a chance anyways.

agree, most likely you wont get blacklisted

this is a summer internship, he just outsmarted the system IMO

now you gotta prove your IB worthy - who gives a F*** about your summer internship really? is anyone here ireally in banking lol?

if your a good banker, your a good banker, no one cares aboyt your innternship at age 19

 
Aug 14, 2020 - 12:50pm

holy fucking shit what is wrong with you people? why are you giving this lying sack of shit more advice on how to wiggle out this situation? If these are the supposed "talents" that are coming through to your bank i imagine you would be pretty fucking pissed. This is why the industry is hated on because of shit bags like OP, and the rest of you are basically accomplices. If this was a criminal offense, pretty sure you all be incriminated and looking at time in prison.

Feel free to monkey shit me all day and night.

 
Aug 14, 2020 - 5:55pm

You've purchased a one way ticket to prison

What concert costs 45 cents? 50 Cent feat. Nickelback.

 
  • Intern in RE - Res
Aug 15, 2020 - 9:03pm

Just because it worked doesn’t mean it’s right. Cheating is still cheating even if you don’t get caught.

Array
 
  • Intern in IB - Gen
Aug 16, 2020 - 10:04pm

This is literally insane. Why would you do this. Its one thing to exaggerate a little on your resume, it is another to completely fabricate employment. Then on top of this, lie even more in the interview. If they catch you, you will have your offer rescinded and you will be blacklisted at that firm.

Tbh though, you aren't the first and definitely not the last. I guarantee there are a few SAs in IB across the street each year who made up an internship and got through. Seen topics a few times on this site. Especially if its an unknown firm, I give you a 50/50 shot.

But the worst part is they could find out in a few years, fire you for cause, then its listed on your U-5 for life. If you accept the offer, and you get lucky, I would not plan on staying there FT.

 
Aug 17, 2020 - 10:47am

I echo the comments that you should decline your offer since you made up the internship. Each Investment Bank follows FINRA requirements, and a background check is part of that. Additionally, many Banks conduct consumer background checks which also verify employment. Your offer could be rescinded based on an unsatisfactory background check.

 
Aug 18, 2020 - 7:56am

Aren’t most M&A advisors not licensed under Finra? Obviously at the large banks yes, but my understanding is it has more to do with selling financial products, and someone advising on small deals wouldn’t necessarily be licensed.

Again, not condoning this at all, but genuinely curious how HR / a background check would catch this. I know plenty of consulting “firms” which are basically 1-2 senior guys doing projects for companies they have strong connections with. They probably have registered an LLC, but likely no company website or anything else. You’ll find similar such structures for advisory on small market M&A. It sounds like the banks are now doing work experience background checks (they certainly didn’t when I was joining 5/6 years back), but I would imagine background checks for internships, many of them unpaid, are extremely difficult to verify in any effective way. For my freshman year internship I certainly had no contract (got a small stipend) and even sophomore year I don’t think I was on contract.

For what it’s worth, my most recent role was with a private investment vehicle - no website. I had a background check done to verify this, and they emailed the registered company email address (found somewhere online, it was a gmail address created around the time the company was registered, but rarely used). That was a professional background check done through a 3rd party agency and a response from a gmail ID was sufficient to verify my employment. The ironic part is that they asked me for someone to verify my employment, and I gave them the contact email / phone number of one of our directors (his professional email). They tried to be smart and decided not to use that (maybe thought I had given the email of a friend?) and instead googled to find this company gmail. I was the only person logged into that gmail account, and thus I ended up verifying my own employment. Was shocked they didn’t ask for employment letter, pay stubs, etc (all of which I could have provided to them), but this anecdote points to why I’m skeptical of these in general.

 
  • Prospect in IB - Gen
Aug 17, 2020 - 7:47pm

Even if OP had his friend to answer background check phone calls for him, wouldn't he get burned since the company he pretended to work for does not even have a legal existence?

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