So a little background on me: I transferred into a non-ivy target at then end of junior year, and to fulfill residency requirements it took me an extra year to graduate. I really liked the bank I worked at and didn't think of shopping my offer around, so I accepted the offer and was placed into a top coverage group without ever interviewing with any other banks.
With training a little over a month away, I just got a call from HR. They gave me the usual bs about market conditions and what not, and that due to these conditions they want analysts to be able to contribute as much as possible in an area where needed blah blah blah. Then they went on to tell me that they would be delaying my start date with the investment bank until July of 2009. In the meantime, I would be joining the commercial bank. I will still go to IB training, but once I complete that, I will join the commercial bank for a year. They also said that this was done uniformly, to every group across the IB, and that they chose, at random, 1/3 of the analyst class to go through the same process.
My initial reaction was that more experience certainly won't hurt, considering the fact that I didn't work in the IB last summer, and that maybe this will make the transition into working 100+ hrs a week a bit smoother. But now that I'm mulling it over, I am thinking that I am being robbed of a year. I'm already 23, so I start my first year analyst stint at 24, meaning the first opp to become an associate or possibly go to b school will be when I'm 26.
Should I be pissed here or take the positive outlook? Do I have any options? I've already signed with the bank (obviously) and with this market, I doubt that I could go an interview with any other banks. I don't know what to do, any serious advice would be much appreciated.
with the tens of thousands of layoffs on wall street this year, you should be extremely happy that you still have a position (let alone one in the front office)
So they are doing this to the entire incoming class and 1/3 of the current analyst class or just 1/3 of the incoming class? If it is 1/3 of the current incoming class, I suggest you try and talk to someone you already know at the bank from your internship and see if he or she can do anything about it. If not, then losing one year is not as bad as losing the job entirely.
What bank is this? I've heard rumors at my bank (Citi) that this is being done but am not sure whether to believe them...it'd be interesting to know which banks are doing this.
Also, I agree that you should probably be thankful that you have a job still. Plus, if it is Citi, I've heard good things about working in the commercial bank - similar to IBD but fewer hours.
I agree about being thankful for still having a job, believe me I am. I just feel shafted. They are doing this to 1/3 of the incoming class.
nebanker, I PMed you my bank.
what bank was this at?
Mdr - mind sharing which bank you're referring to? PM me if not.
I think the sentiment of disappointment is natural, but remember that if you really want to do investment banking sooner rather than later, you can start speaking with other banks. HOWEVER, given the hiring activity (or lack thereof) anywhere else, you might not even have that option. So the reality is, the bank can't put you in the IB this year BUT they're still willing to pay for your training AND give you a job in a separate part of the bank until the next year when you'll get to join the IB division...and in the meantime, you're still getting paid, learning stuff, and networking with colleagues in what sounds like a big bank (what bank is this BTW? Feel free to PM if you prefer).
Verdict: In this market, better take what you can get, and you could have had things far worse.
Thanks for the words of wisdom guys. You are all totally right, in this market its best to just take what I can get. I genuinely like the bank I'm at and I honestly don't want to work for any other bank. I really like the people and the culture, and I'm extremely confident in the management team. I don't think I'd be happy anywhere else to be quite honest.
numi, very well put. They are still training me, giving me another job in the meantime where I will learn a lot and be able to make contacts. The international group also sounds interesting, they said there would be a lot of international travel involved, which I am looking forward to. This could turn out to be a very good experience. Thanks for all of the advice guys. BTW, for everyone who is curious, I work at JPM.
Good points.
Also, make sure you connect with as many other analysts going into IBD as possible. Get close to them and KEEP A PULSE ON THEIR GROUPS. If spots open up (guaranteed at least a few other analysts won't hack it), you'll hear about it and be able to get your resume in front of people. I really think you might be able to find a way in before 07/09.
Look at this as an experience to build your network. Be proactive and really work on making the most of training with your future IBD colleagues.
agreed with nystateofmind. along those lines, mdr, it behooves you to work hard in whatever capacity you're in, as even though JPM is a big place, it never hurts to start making a name for yourself as a hard worker no matter what division you're in. plus, it does sound like you'll gain some interesting perspectives with your projects abroad on the commercial side. and you never know, like nystateofmind said, you might find yourself in IB sooner rather than later if you're proactive about it...just remember to make the most of whatever opportunity you're presented with. never miss a chance to network.
hi mdr24, just wondering, which office in JPM will you be working for?
i posted a thread on the forum a few days ago about something similar. //www.wallstreetoasis.com/forums/summer-analysts-all-screwed-i-was-screwe… i was supposed to be an IBD SA at JPM HK this summer, and i got a call just this weekend informing me that i will be transferred from my IBD position to a position in Asset Management, due to poor dealflow, market conditions and other BS etc etc. they said they couldn't find enough 'meaningful work' to keep the entire SA class occupied, and that they felt they needed to give us some proper work so they could properly evaluate our abilities. from what HR said, a lot of the IBD summer analysts were transferred this way, some to S&T, others less fortunate to Private Banking and Asset Management.
seeing your post about the transfer and also working for JPM makes me wonder what they are up to...
hey clip,
I'm in the new york office. From what I understand, there are a lot of factors that are affecting the IB aside from the market conditions right now.
Prior to the bear merger, there had been quite a bit of restructuring going around, and a lot of analyst got moved from the commercial bank over to the IB. I actually met 3 or 4 of them in the group I was originally placed in. After the merger, the IB then had to take on even more people than planned, and to make things even more complicated, last summer's analyst class was the largest the bank had ever seen (176). I'm not sure if that was because they gave out more offers than before if there were more accepts than before. I think all of these factors, coupled with the current environment, makes for more analysts than the IB can handle right now.
mdr: what time did you get called? can anyone else comment on this?
what kind of effects do you guys think this will have on JPM's future recruitment? i know that most banks will try not to take back offers or change their offers because the damage to its recruiting reputation must be considered. does this mean that JPM doesn't care about their rep anymore? i have heard horror stories like this from banks with huge writedowns like Citi, but JPM is still very profitable and not hurt badly by the subprime crisis. it's scary to think that JPM would be willing to give up their reputation in this situation.
eh? From everything I've heard historically, in a recession, banks take a fuck-all approach to taking back or changing offers...............All the bulges took back or changed offers in the last recession and their reputations are doing just fine
any current people at JP Morgan-ites, or jp bearpont morgan-ites as DB has become fond of calling them, have any additional info on this topic?
with Warhawk. It would suck, obviously, but trust me..your school is not going to kick a bunch of banks off campus from recruiting. There will not be many negative repercussions, especially from a recruiting standpoint since everyone knows that the banks are dealing with this whole credit mess. I think it'd be different if it were a boutique.The BBs usually align with each other in this light. They pay out relatively the same band of bonuses, follow each other in recruiting standards, etc. You can bet that if one bank is doing it, others are probably following suit in same way or another. I'm not at JPM, but I know that incoming interns in a specific division at my bank were moved into a generalist pool in another division because of restructuring in that particular business group.
And, I am sure others will agree when I say this, the banks have not hit the rock bottom yet. In '01/'02, banks were pulling offers left and right without even a backup plan for the incoming analysts.
This point has been hammered over and over again on this board, but I will say it again. the banks owe nothing to you (analysts/associates and even VPs). Of course it sucks from our viewpoint but they have bigger things to worry about than a bunch of associates/analysts. It sounds cynical, but having sat through a few rounds of layoffs already where a lot of 1st years were taken coupled with watching internal restructuring, I can say I've seen firsthand the scariness of the whole situation. The kids who are most screwed are the ones who were just finishing up their first year and were let go with some severance and no indication of bonus. How are they supposed to pay their rents? And more importantly, how are they supposed to find another job? You have no real experience, the job market is terrible, and you are competing with a ton of other people in the same position.
A valid point, and I'm glad you're recognizing this early on. I left banking for PE slightly off-cycle and seriously grappled with the prospect of staying on as a third year. I liked banking and the people I worked with very much and was reluctant to leave, even though all the rational facts were pointing the other way - higher (and guarunteed) pay, better lifestyle, more responsibility, etc. I was concerned about my reputation and my relationships within the group being tarnished. I remember one particular conversation I had with my father at 3AM where he imparted some advice that I was fooling myself, or even being egotistical, if I thought that I was THAT important of a cog in the banking machine. I could easily be replaced and managing directors would just as soon move on to the next resource.
The moral of the story - always listen to your Dad.
hmm.. it just makes me wonder as a rising junior graduating in 2010, will the recruiting for SA '09 be worst then the recruiting this year??
I think take whatever you can out the experience. Alot of Goldman S&T people were shoved into ops. Use the experience in Comm banking to get as much out of the experience and make yourself that much better of an analyst come July '09.
You dont have control over anything, just make the best of the situation and work/act/learn in a way where come July 09 you'll feel like the CB experience was a valuable one.
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