Hi Everyone,
Yesterday, I was rejected by a my first superday event after a series of very many first round rejections and am really feeling the need to "revamp" myself in order to get an offer by the end of this recruiting season.
I don't have too much problem getting interviews since my resume/gpa are all pretty good. My problem is apparently delivery in the interviews as I was most recently told that I'm too eager.
Phone Interviews:
1. UBS IBD: I f-cked up the accounting so that wasn't their fault, it was solely mine
2. JP Morgran ST: I think I was too nervous and didn't sound natural...rejected anyhow
3. Citi: great alums, made it past first round but then didn't do well on superday
4. MS: Got a random interview, great convo, interviewer expressed she liked me but she said she never heard back from HR.
In person interviews:
1. BMO: Great conversation, felt good after interview, got rejection 2 weeks later
2. Boutique Bank: Lots of applicants, 3 interviews at office, left on high note, they said they were impressed, rejected ultimately
3. Another Boutique Bank: Decent convo, knew I didn't get it by the time I left ( he said "Nice to meet you, good luck with everything"), never heard back
4. RBC CM: Pretty good interview, answered all questions correctly, felt confident, rejected next day
5. Citi CM Superday: Felt the experience was great, meet many wonderful people, had amazing convos ( didn't feel like interview at all), walked out feeling good, rejected yesterday and was told that I was "too nervous" and "too eager".
Honestly, I tried my absolute best for that superday and felt so good about the conversations that it's a bit hard to swallow. I guess what I'm asking is....is my experience normal and I should just keep going or am I in serious need of an interview coach/interview prep going forward? If so, any one has any suggestions of resources that might be helpful? (I would like banking based, campus mock interview was helpful but not too relevant) I was told by my alum and seeing other websites that I should express that I really want to be with Citi over the summer which I did but backfired...haha.
Sorry for the long post, just feeling interview-blue.
hmmmm it seems like your doing everything right, but have trouble making it past your interviews....its usually the other way for me. its hard to get interviews, but once I do, i tend to do well.
my advice is that you put in too much prep into your interviews and end up sounding canned. I generally try not to prepare for my interviews (and those are the ones I tend to do well on). While its important to know details about the company, the technicals and what to say, never write down your answers, just have a rough idea of what to say and you'll be fine...can't really help you if you appear too nervous (i guess the only way to take care of that is doing as many mocks as you can...use your career office or friends or if you're really desperate, pm me and i'll do a mock with you)
As you said, try to have conversations, not interviews where its more back to back rather than just q&a
First, congratulations on landing all of those interviews - that is definitely impressive - not it is just a matter of closing a few deals. Regarding your situation, it is definitely common to misstep during interviews and even when you don't misstep, you might still get dinged. To avoid making stupid mistakes, coming on too strong or too weak and knowing your responses well, yet still natural, it is all about practicing and becoming more comfortable with the entire process, questioning, reactions and so forth.
Whether you go with an interview prep service, friends and family, alumni, etc, the key is really to just practice. I am of course biased to my service, but I think it is important either way to get candid feedback from people with experience who don't know your story. Remember, interviewers won't know more about you, usually, than your resume, so friends help, but often not as much as you think since they in fact know who you are and won't be looking at your as an outsider and just another candidate.
Feel free to PM me or email me if you have any questions - the big thing is to not give up and keep at it. You can definitely land yourself a few more interviews and, ideally, a few offers. Good luck and feel free to check out my service.
http://www.bankonbanking.com/interview-prepconsultation/
There must be something you are doing wrong across the board. You would not have gotten so many interviews without great grades, so I assume you know your accounting/finance well.
Is there a common question you seem to stumble on?
Do you keep up with the markets (reading the WSJ everyday)?
You need to be up on the markets, recent M&A, recent IPOs, and interest rates.
Also, the Vault (I-Banking + Finance....2 different guides) and WSO guides are absolute essentials for Superday.
Am I the only one who is disturbed by Citi's comment about being "too-eager"? Unless the OP said that he'd swipe the floor for the job, how is being too-eager to have the job a negative? Did they mean that he came across as a fake? It seems like the OP was dinged by one person at Citi who probably didn't like him and just nitpicked him apart.
Thanks everyone for the comments. I definitely think I'm doing something wrong across the board...may be over preparation but maybe I'm giving off an impression that I don't mean to.
Michael Mike. I feel that you're spot on. I had two great convos at Citi with great associates but the third convo with a director who didn't seem to buy my "I'm very interested in working at Citi this summer" story. I didn't say anything crazy...the only thing that might have been on the border was "I understand everyone is very busy and would apply my full capacity to help". Other than that, it's just typical "I'd love to intern here..." type of thing. Also, I tried reaching out to the interviewers who seem to be all ignoring me :(
Why would this be rubbing the director in the wrong way? Maybe a little bit of over-confidence? Since you don't even know(or haven't been tested) what your capacity is until you actually do an internship at the firm? I cannot say for sure since I don't know the details of the scenes, but this seems like a genuinely good bs to state at the end of the interview.
Oh and also, Squawkbox. I actively trade in the options market and am well aware of market basics. I've been able to answer questions without too much content problem...I think I fucking up delivery. lol.
What kind of "market" questions do you usually get asked in interviews?
i know how you feel. First of all, think about the competition. You need to stand out. You can't ever over-prepare, however you can sound "over-prepared" and "mechanical", and the way to not let that happen is to speak slower.
Second, you need to stand out, so sometimes you gotta take risks.
The director was this older french guy. He seems sorta jaded or something and just didn't seem to buy it even though I was being very honest. I understand the competition is hard, it just makes me sad to see kids at my school who just thought of doing banking right before apps were due, waltz into the interview, and get an offer. This one guy even mentioned that he couldn't answer a technical question but still got an offer an hour out of the interview. I guess subjectivity is the name of the game. At the same time, can't help but feel like I'm missing the point...
Market questions that I've gotten are typically: pitch a stock, I trade ETF's so they ask why? Where is the dow? What do you think is going on in the markets?
Pretty basic.
Did anyone else do like a total self evaluation after not getting offers? If so, what helped? Honestly, one offer and i'm outta the game. lol, very tired and stressed from all this worrying/wondering/waiting
Too eager is a euphemism for too annoying:
Tone it down a lot and be the person that will deliver at 4am AND that people will want to be around in general.
Try to meditate in the morning before the interview / have a small shot of vodka / don't drink coffee beforehand.
I know that sounds harsh, but the value judgments made such as "too annoying" are pretty arbitrary right? You certainly were able to elicit a lot of support through networking / on here that a more laid back person would not have been able to accomplish.
lol, ibes_answer I see your point. I agree and apologize for coming off as annoying but I'm not too sure what you mean by You certainly were able to elicit a lot of support through networking / on here that a more laid back person would not have been able to accomplish
You're right that value judgments are arbitrary; you would have a different opinion if you actually knew me but since you don't, I respect your current opinion and will try to find the fine line between "eager" and "annoying"
How up on your deals are you?
How many questions are you asking after the formal interview?
I emphasized in some other threads that you should be current on M&A and IPO trends for IBD interviews (in ALL sectors).
During my IBD interviews, I had bankers from across the spectrum in terms of sectors and needed to be prepared for all of them.
One interview you will need to be a Consumer Staples expert and the next you'll need to know that Pfizer is about to lose big time due to patent expiration.
Also, pick at least 2-3 stocks to know very well. I would go ahead and pitch them on here to get some good commentary. Most IBD interviews (and some S&T) will require the classic stock pitch. Pick something out of the ordinary (2-15 bil market cap). This will help you with the stock pitch and with being up to date on some sectors.
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I think the interviewing process is very random.
During one season, I had a 75% yield with my interviews (including 2 out of 3 with MBB). I really thought I was the shit and I leveraged my offers like hell (the firm in interned with ended up paying for subsequent holidays!). But in another season, I landed very few offers despite also interviewing with a shitload of firms (and all the big names: GS, MS, JPM, LAZ, plus PE/HF/prop shops).
However, I realized that I usually got dinged after the final round (which is all the more frustrating, especially at Lazard after surviving the cut!).
With hindsight, I now think that it often boiled down to overconfidence and/or not demonstrating that you want to work with the firm/group/desk. Overconfidence meant relying too much on your credentials and past achievements and not coming across as modest, not understanding that you still need to learn. Not demonstrating your eagerness to work with your interviewers means not referring to what you specifically like about the firm (without giving them bullshit about culture) and the group in particular. I think that it is especially difficult when you have pedigree, as the interviewers sometimes assume that you have lots of interviews, and thus want you to show commitment.
So my advice would be to really know the firms you're interviewing with, have a good story as to why you want to be a banker, and try to come across as a genius who hasn't realized his true potential yet, to have a sort of quiet mojo that your interviewer perceives without you having to convey the message explicitly. Agreed, the last part is easier said than done ;-)
The reality of the situation is that 90% of the candidates in there have credentials like you. I have learned very quickly that in this business the best overall candidate can not be selected from an interview. The bank can just find a pool of candidates who would all do the job well.
People have to remember that this is not destiny. There is not one true candidate for the job. Many people are great for the job.
Think about the process as a roulette wheel. You just have to wait for your number to come up. The more you play the more the distribution will appear normal (i.e. your number will come up sometime). Qualified candidates have a higher percent chance of getting the job. They get more numbers in each game of roulette. Keep playing bankingrox!
I think you should def mock interviews with your career center and friends. Also, videotape yourself so you can pinpoint what might be going wrong.
Thanks everyone again for the advice! I will certainly look into all of them!
Thanks for the encouragement. At the end of these interviews it's really hard to not take them to heart, but I will try my best. I know this is what I want to do so I'm not giving up yet.
First congrats on all the interviews
Lots of good advice on here but I would give the following advice - Put yourself in the position of the interviewer. Through the internship and full time interivew process these bankers see the same kid over and over and over. Everyone knows the technical questions they are going to ask, everyone has good grades, everyone went to a good school, eveyrone studied the banks deals.... you get the point
So the question is - what does the person interviewing you care about
This seems to be your issue right... too "eager"/nervous just means you are not being yourself - you are too worried about getting an offier.... the key to a good interview is to go in knowing you are a great fit, be confident about that (not cocky - humble) - the worst thing that happens is you dont get an offer right? So it is a matter of calming yourself and just letting your personality come through
Get your work ethic out there - find things in your resume where you have taken on extra responsibility or done additional tasks - dont brag about it - just explain that you did it to learn as much as possible and to help the team.... everyone asks for you to walk through the resume - have this polished and prepared.....
Everyone that gets these interviews is "academically smart"... you set yourself apart with the above two points - and I argue that number two is probably table stakes - so really - they want to know you are a good guy and would be good to have around on those long nights - so relax, be yourself, and you will be fine
as an aside - study the damn accounting questions!!! ;) http://www.ibankingfaq.com/category/interviewing-technical-questions/
GL!!!
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