IB boutique: China Vs US

Fellow primates, am I analyzing this decision correctly? Did I miss anything? Many thanks, I hope to hear from primates with Chinese finance experience. I've done my WSO searches, so I am keeping my question to a bare minimum.

I have boutique internship options in both countries. I am a native Mandarin speaker, a top-10 US university graduate, and I ultimately want to work in China. Two options here:

=================

1) Go to China now.

The Good:
-higher volume and value of deals
-greater responsbility
-catch the Chinese growth early in career.

The Bad:
-random / non-existent training
-potentially more random work at analyst level
-lower pay, and risk of failure (harder to compete for US FT offers with Chinese internship, if for some reason, I don't want to remain in China)

=================

2) Stay in the US pre-MBA, go to China post-MBA

The Good:
-IB at any level in US is good training / relevant experience.
-More predictable responsibilities and training
-can still head to China after ~5 years with MBA + solid US finance experience.

The Bad:
-too late to jump back to China post-MBA (older, less hungry?)
-US boutique MBA admission and post-MBA job search, due to potentially much more deal experience at Chinese boutique.

 

Why are you working for a boutique instead of a BB? If you can land a solid boutique in either US/Hong Kong, landing a BB firm shouldn't be that much harder.

1) At the BB's at least, all analysts and associates in Hong Kong are trained in New York 2) Pay is higher in Hong Kong at least than NY, not lower

Also, if you're interested in learning more about China, I suggest working in Hong Kong. HK for the foreseeable future will remain the primary gateway of FDI into China. The HKSE recently started allowing RMB-denominated listings, which will increase IPO activity even more from mainland firms. Last year, HKSE/China IPO's accounted for 60% of the equity market IPO activity (versus ¬30% in the US).

If you manage to work at a BB in HK, getting into a M7 MBA in the US is all but a done deal. The same cannot be said for the analyst in the US.

The question is this - do you really think after working in IB --> PE --> MBA (¬6 years), you'll be around 28, you'll have the guts to move to Asia when all your network/family/potential-significant other are all in the US? Nothing wrong with that, but if you're heart is truly on Asia, I suggest taking the opportunity to work where you want to work.

Same advice someone gave me... we're only in our very early 20's... if there's any time in life we can afford to take some risks and explore the world and ourselves, it's now.

 
Best Response
ibhopeful532:
Why are you working for a boutique instead of a BB? If you can land a solid boutique in either US/Hong Kong, landing a BB firm shouldn't be that much harder.

Geez, not everybody has the good fortune of landing something at a BB. Some people actually have to gasp settle for boutiques. I'm sure he would do anything to get a BB gig.

To the OP, I've been in a similar situation before. I would stick with the States. China just hasn't learned how to pay appropriately yet. Also, the States should give you the widest amount of options after IB if you plan to move into anything else or into any other region. Chinese IB experience may still be viewed with some skepticism by the west, so much easy to go from west to east than east to west. Also, you'll have a lot more competition trying to go from East to West than the other way around, and having that American IB on your resume would stand out against other competition that only has Chinese experience.

Though, the only caveat I would offer is...if you're buddy buddy with the senior bankers in the Chinese firm, you might be able to move up the ranks very quickly and then leverage that to get west, however, you know your situation and the people involved better than I do.

 

Yes, I would donate my organs for a BB gig :-) But since my background is non-finance (hard science), only boutiques will take a chance on me; BB's just have more than enough accounting/finance applicants from targets. Perhaps after IB boutique experience, alums at BB will take me more seriously.

Sounds like the safest approach is American (or even HK) boutique IB for 1-2 years, then Mainland China. That way, I am still going there early in my career, and have the solid American IB experience to lend credibility and to fall back on in case things go south in China.

 

Here's the thing though, if you're Chinese, which I am assuming you are...then having Chinese IB experience means you'll be competing with a zillion other Qinghua's and Beida's that have all kinds of China experience that will then be trying to flock to all the top MBA's. Getting that western IB experience will help you stand out from the crowd a little.

If you happen to be a westerner, then the exact oppossite is true, and you may want to go the China route. It doesn't really make any sense from the perspective of what you may learn or what experience you may gain. It's simply the way an adcom will see you when they review your resume. That's the game.

 

Here's another component to consider - there are roughly 1000 or so new bulge-bracket investment banking analysts a year, and another couple of hundred elite boutiques. Throw into the mix a low couple of hundred middle-market PE analysts that may also apply for US MBA's and I'm not sure what distinction an IB analyst has if any.

On the other hand, I'm sure the number of analysts applying from China/HK will total less than 50 in any given year (HK BB's only have ~15-20 analysts per class).

You're US educated - so it's entirely conceivable that you can portray yourself as either an ABC or a nationalized American. In either case, you can portray yourself to the adcom as a "westerner" with chinese-heritage seeking a risk-taking new experience in the frontiers of China. That story, IMO, is much more compelling than being an excel-monkey...

 
ibhopeful532:
Here's another component to consider - there are roughly 1000 or so new bulge-bracket investment banking analysts a year, and another couple of hundred elite boutiques. Throw into the mix a low couple of hundred middle-market PE analysts that may also apply for US MBA's and I'm not sure what distinction an IB analyst has if any.

On the other hand, I'm sure the number of analysts applying from China/HK will total less than 50 in any given year (HK BB's only have ~15-20 analysts per class).

You're US educated - so it's entirely conceivable that you can portray yourself as either an ABC or a nationalized American. In either case, you can portray yourself to the adcom as a "westerner" with chinese-heritage seeking a risk-taking new experience in the frontiers of China. That story, IMO, is much more compelling than being an excel-monkey...

Not necessarily true, China has a bazillion mom and pop shops in one sector of the finance industry or another. Everything from XX Securities to XX High Tech Venture Capital Co. Ltd...etc. Since the west has no clue what's going on in China, they all look exactly the same on a resume and believe you me when every one of those trillion Chinese candidates has at least some experience at one of those shops (whether their uncle is a director or the father started a real estate investment company or whatever). Outside of the main BB candidates you will have plenty of competition with "boutique China" experience. Just as much, if not more, than westerners with IB or PE experience.

 

All very insightful advice here. I should clarify: I am an US citizen with Chinese heritage, it's just that I have been maintaining my Chinese reading and writing abilities over the years. And yes, I am tailoring my pre-MBA career for MBA admissions, therefore I want work experience that will be more interesting than other B-school applicants.

Other than Mandarin fluency, I am culturally American, so heading to China will definitely be a risk-taking experience. I hear that top MBA programs like American applicants with substantial Chinese work experience.

 

I'd say start off with a year or two in finance in the U.S... as a native Mandarin Speaker from a solid school in the U.S. (with excellent english language skills) and experience in banking in the U.S., you're going to find it very easy to find a finance gig in China in the future. You don't want to start at a boutique in China because the pay will be close to zero --- generally they don't have global pay like the BBs. If you do have global pay I'd say go to china and live like a king (I know about this from experience), but if not I'd say stay in the states for a bit and then come over as a senior analyst / associate in a PE gig or at a BB (which shouldn't be hard with your background).

 

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