IB Industry vs. Academia for Wharton undergraurate
Hi all,
My daughter is in Wharton undergraduate program, I am suggesting her considering a career path as a professor in a business school (I am a faculty myself, though not in business). But I think everyone agrees that Wharton education is pre-professional, and she could be in disadvantage when applying to top PhD (or DBA) programs such as those in HBS and Wharton competing with students from top Econ or Math majors. I would like to hear you guys' opinions/advices regarding the following:
(1) One main reason I suggested her to go academia is I heard that the long working hours in IB is brutal, especially for females. In academia you are more likely to have a normal life. Does this make much sense? Anyone has an idea on how well females are represented in IB industry, and how well they are doing?
(2) Would you think a student in Wharton with a GPA above 3.5 will be competitive when applying to the DBA program at HBS or the PhD program at Wharton? How well the student will fare with Harvard or Princeton Econ graduates? Does she need to take some specific courses such as Econ or Math classes from Penn CAS to achieve "deeper understanding"?
Any comments, suggestions and advices are greatly appreciated. Thank you!
Why would a faculty member at an Ivy League university ask some excel monkeys for advice? Something is not right here.
I would find it extremely difficult to believe that anyone would ever be at a disadvantage having the Wharton name on their resume when attempting to go into an facet of the Business world be that academia at a business school or any other.
@JamesHetfield: Well, I am not a faculty at Penn or any other IVY schools, instead in a state university. I do not have much knowledge on business world either.
By simple logical deduction, there is no way that the Wharton PHD program would in any way look down upon a Wharton B.S.
Or she can consider ECM or DCM, which has better hours but lower pay than IBD.
helicopter parent much? in any case, it's possible to work in finance (not necessarily ib) as a woman. ib has very few women, but there are plenty in other finance jobs. and they succeed well enough. but more realistically, i don't think being a professor is that much better than ib in the phd/post-doc years. grinding away for pretty much nothing is what it seems like for me. and isn't becoming a tenured professor somewhat tough?
As long as she has a strong math background and good recs, I don't see why Wharton ugrad would hold her back.
Also, a PhD in "Business" can mean getting a degree in econ/finance (very math heavy--need real analysis etc), softer quantitative subjects (accounting, policy/strategy/etc) or even things like marketing and so forth, so it depends on what route she wants to go down.
Of course she can also just do banking for a couple of years and save some cash before turning to academia.
I agree with the helicopter parent remark...I'm going to go out on a limb here with some heavy assumptions, but why don't you let your daughter choose what will make her happy instead of micromanaging her life (for your own bragging rights, no doubt?)? Just a thought.
Thank you for your input, folks.
The fact that average Wharton graduate does not have a particularly strong math background was my concern, and their econ education is different from something at UChicago too as I believe the latter is probably better suited for academia. These are the reasons I thought she might need to do something extra to improve her chances if she does decide to go the route.
@guts: Does "other financial jobs" include HF and PE? or these companies are parts of IBD? I did notice that Silverlake has many woman employee. Also, you are right that it may not be easy to get tenured, however, in business major, it seems that postdoc is not so common yet.
@Hayek: We are actually considering working a few years at one of the consulting companies before applying to the school.
Hahaha, I guess its fair to put me into the "helicopter parent" category. But I am not going to push her, just trying to do some research and give her good advice. Planning early is always important, but she is certainly not someone who established a company when in high school or something like that. Some kids at Wharton, even freshman, are extremely knowledgeable about the who business world and career options, but she is not and I do not know much either.
The "we" stuff is a bit creepy, but I really wish I had parents who cared. They never gave me any advice re: school/careers etc. And now I'm a goddamn pokemon.
What is she interested in studying at the PhD level? If it's econ/finance then she'll need a good amount of math/stats, and preferably some econ as well. Take a look at the CVs of some recent Wharton Finance grads. It shouldn't be too hard to squeeze in a couple of extra math/econ courses if needed.
As for other fields (e.g. marketing, strategy, etc.), I doubt that the math requirements are very high.
edit: http://fnce.wharton.upenn.edu/programs/phdjobmarket.cfm It looks like just about everyone has a math/stats degree of some sort. I wouldn't worry too much about undergrad econ though.
Charmander... you will evolve soon. Just a few more cold calls and Charmeleon is in your future. Keep licking Ash's (MD) ass too... he might give you a fire stone.
@happypantsmcgee, you can not act with a little bit of class?
By saying "we" I meant she wanted to do consulting after graduation and I also felt it a good option.
happypantsmcgee, you are really an asshole, greet your mother.
What does your daughter want?
* Does she want to work hard for money and power, potentially making more than her entire family by the age of 30 and having the option to retire then?....or go into a high level position at a large organization?
* Does she want to be a teacher / researcher and build a career within the confines of the ivory tower? She can do one for a few years, and then the other....have you considered this? An econ / math professor who has actually worked in industry is much more effective, and professors who try to teach business but never had a business job simply don't get any respect from people who've ACTUALLY been in business.
I do wish I had a parent as attentive as you, however, you must realize that your child must grow on their own because you will NOT always be around to do everything for them.
Good luck.
Wow guys, quit acting like douches!
Anyway, I think that the options you are considering are fair, but there are other options besides academia that do not have pathetic hours. Corp Finance is one option at large companies. Consulting is another one, but even there you are clocking around 60-70, but it is definitely better suited to females.
That said, Wharton Phd will not be looked down upon wharton undergrad of 3.5+, but they do not prefer taking their own undergrads because they believe it does not add different perspectives. However, I am pretty sure other top schools will like a candidate from Wharton (and please just don't aim for just HBS!).
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