Can international students get hired?

Hey guys...so I'm an international student and I'm in my senior year of college (non-target school). I have done one IB internship so far, and I'm just about to start another. However, I know that sponsorships are really hard to get, and my mentor (who's the manager of the company where I do my second internship) told me that Citibank IBD does not give any sponsorships (he's busy so we didn't talk more about this on the phone; he had to go). So, being an international student who's not a citizen, either do I have a green card, can I really get hired by BBs or elite boutiques?? Thank you in advance for your explanations.

PS: if you are a supremacist, please don't answer this question, thank you.

 

He's wrong about Citi. All the big banks sponsor, however, there is no doubt that you have more of an uphill climb as an international student. It's a bit of a gamble for them as winning the Visa lottery is never guaranteed and if they lose it, they lose that spot and the group/bank is out a resource. So with that, they tend to offer less internationals than they may otherwise (because you have to be "better" as an international) because of the risk associated with it. It's even tougher at EBs, but many of them do sponsor.

 

Thank you so much for your explanation. Yes I know that being an international student I need to be better, in order to be considered. I feel much better now after reading what you said.. may I ask another question? My mentor just emailed me this morning and what he said was basically like "I can't turn you into a 3.9 junior at Wharton; try for IBD when you are in a top business program." Since I'm graduating this June/July, can I apply for summer analyst positions this Fall? Or do I have to wait for opportunities when I'm in a graduate school/business school program? Thanks a lot !

Persistency is Key
 

You won't be able to apply for summer analyst programs this fall (if I'm reading this correctly, you're asking if you could apply for 2018 summer analyst programs). Those classes will be primarily people graduating in 2019, along with a few 2018 grads that are doing MSF programs - they would not look at someone who finished their undergrad in 2017.

You will likely need to wait until you're in grad school or get a job outside of banking and try to lateral into an analyst program (I have seen some people do this from capital markets or consulting jobs).

 

I don't know if your mentor works at Citi or not, but he is definitely wrong about the sponsorship part. The bank does sponsor international students, as I have seen it happen this year as well as the past few years. I think it may vary according to what school you're in, as MS specifically doesn't sponsor in my school, despite the fact that my school is a target school. That being said, you're right in that it is an uphill battle for F-1 kids, as the banks must place a lot of faith in you to bet on that 30-40% H1b lottery chance (does get better if you are on STEM extension but don't think banks really care to look that deeply). You will essentially have to be on the top of the list to get that few sponsorship spots allocated to the year's class, and considering the already competitive nature of the IBD recruiting process, its no easy job.

 

Thank you so much for your explanation. This is truly helpful. Yes I understand the difficulty of what I want to do, but I'll just try to break in in the future, when I'm in the grad school. Meanwhile I will try to get as much experience as I can. Thanks again

Persistency is Key
 

I don't know. Maybe you are right, but they will never give you feedback in terms of how you can improve yourself for it. The weird thing is that I know people who have similar background get SA offers last year, and I believe I can do as well as they do.

Regarding the level of knowledge, what do you expect from a junior student applying for an SA program? I follow the macroeconomics and markets everyday and had a finance internship last summer. I don't know what I can do to make step further.

As for persona, I was being humble and nice during the internship. Nevertheless, I know there are tons of mean and judgmental people working on the streets. And I don't think it is fair to reject one's application because you "think his persona" doesn't fit well. You never know until you try it. If BBs only reserve the positions for "people with certain persona", then they are too narrowly minded and it sucks.

 

Some of my favorites:

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Nevertheless, I know there are tons of mean and judgmental people working on the streets.
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However, if I don't try and I give up because the interviewers don't like me, then I think people who have similar personality as I do may never get a chance to make it into sales and trading, for they will be forever underrepresented in the industry. Therefore, I will keep trying hard to get into it, and if I succeed and become a recruiter several years later, I will give a hand to the kids who have similar personalities as I do.
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And a reason while I think I deserve an SA offer is that I can alway provide them with something about the markets if I am asked to, such as oil price, debt market, equities and stocks, currencies, etc.
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Btw, sometimes I think the Dodd-frank act is a piece of shit. It not only cuts the revenues of the BBs, but it also cuts the positions for many kids who are so passionate about finance.

This has got to be a troll. Try not to catch VD from a mean and judgemental street worker buddy.

 
Best Response

Very rarely will you get feedback in an interview situation. Even if you did, you can probably file it under a BS answer. What you have to know is that if a company uses its time on you, whether that's a phone call, an OCR interview, an onsite superday, they are actively considering you as a candidate. Note that this isn't like a proficiency test or recorded video interview where it takes no effort on their behalf - if they're spending energy on you, you're in consideration.

I can't tell you what they expect and even if I could, it doesn't matter if you meet all the prerequisites and the interviewer doesn't like you. Here's the harsh reality: not all the standards are the same and you will see people less qualified than you and on your level get the slot over you. When I applied to S&T positions, I didn't even get first round interviews with many banks, while my friends at target schools and under diversity programs got offers in October with completely behavioral rounds, but couldn't tell you the difference between equities and fixed income. So if you think it was helpless for you, know that many people don't even get the shot that you get. That's life and if this is the game you want to play, these are the rules you have to accept.

If your persona doesn't fit, you're getting rejected. Is that fair? That's debatable. But why would you hire the guy who you didn't like over the one you did... even if the unlikeable guy was more knowledgeable? Anyone can increase their knowledge level, but it's damn near impossible (and very fake) to change your personality.

BBs are narrow minded. You should know this. You got the interview because you're in NYC and/or go to a target school. You think Joe McScrub, finance major at the University of Wyoming is interviewing with MS IED? If this really bothers you, there are other industries such as tech or quant trading where the playing field is more level. But even then, you need to 1) get along with them and 2) still go to a strong school and study a particular major. Even the most "meritocratic" industries have levels of subjectivity.

Moral of the story: finance/recruiting/life is unfair, and you can either make peace with it and stay, leave, or let it torment you forever.

 

Thank you for your reply, Lebron. It's very insightful and I do agree with lots of your points. I know that they spend energy on me and I appreciate that. I know the director or vice president or associate who interviewed me can make several hundred or thousand dollars per hour, and it really means something for them to take time to review my candidacy. I also know that the "persona" thing can be kind of tricky. However, if I don't try and I give up because the interviewers don't like me, then I think people who have similar personality as I do may never get a chance to make it into sales and trading, for they will be forever underrepresented in the industry. Therefore, I will keep trying hard to get into it, and if I succeed and become a recruiter several years later, I will give a hand to the kids who have similar personalities as I do.

From your description I know that you are a knowledgable guy in the industries, and I feel sorry to know that the BBs spend time moving with other less talented people's applications. I do think some BB banks are narrow minded though in their firm-wide presentation sessions they always claim the opposite. I think it's crazy for them to recruit someone who does not know the difference between equities and fixed income. And a reason while I think I deserve an SA offer is that I can alway provide them with something about the markets if I am asked to, such as oil price, debt market, equities and stocks, currencies, etc.

I guess what I can do now is to keep applying for other banks, and to see if I have chances to get an offer in other regional offices of the major BBs. I know quant can be a good option but I don't want to pursue a master degree for it now. I want to try something new after my undergraduate studies and I think quant prefers candidates from MFE program or even PHD students.

Btw, sometimes I think the Dodd-frank act is a piece of shit. It not only cuts the revenues of the BBs, but it also cuts the positions for many kids who are so passionate about finance.

 

If it's something you want, don't give up. That's rule #1.

But, there's a reason why a certain personality type is underrepresented. I don't know what kind of person you are. But just as I can say it takes a specific type of person to be a used car salesman, S&T is no different. You may find it's not for you when you get there. And the last sentence in your first paragraph sums it up - people like and help those who are similar to them. Make an effort to connect with your interviewer.

Never drink the kool-aid. Of course the BBs will say they're focused on diversity and want "sharp individuals with a passion for the markets and the ability to work under pressure". What are they going to say: "We like to hire kids from HYP and if you're a underrepresented minority, but not Indian or Asian, we'll check you out too"?

You can be the sharpest tool in the shed but you also have to know how the game is being played. Also, don't overestimate the industry knowledge thing, anyone can regurgitate stats or headlines. I promise you if a trader wants to know the price of Tesla, he isn't going to ask the intern, he can just search Bloomberg in half the time (which you'd have to do anyways). You aren't trading or selling to clients in an S&T intern slot. It's just a glorified shadowing position, so you can assume your fit with the interviewers is more important than your knowledge. They just talk with you about the markets to make sure you didn't just randomly click "submit application".

Apply everywhere. This should be a given, beggars can't be choosers. And if you really like trading, look into quant/prop trading. The shops I've interacted with have great cultures, are laid back but are also very sharp and hardworking. Quant trading doesn't mean quant at a bank, undergrad STEM kids are actively recruited by the firms for entry-level trading/developer roles.

 

I'm an international student myself and have had summer internships, and am in the process of another intern search right now for summer '18. The search process is exactly the same as anybody else with the exception at a certain point you are going to tell the company of your status. If you already have a SSN then there will be no additional paperwork. If you dont have a SSN yet then I HIGHLY advice you to get a part time job on campus because they will be much more sympathetic with helping you get your SSN.

Not to say that the company offering you the internship won't (it's not a super difficult process, they just have to write a letter/fill out a form), but I have lost internships because they weren't willing to go through the process.

TL:DR Get a SSN from a campus job and then apply anywhere you want for internships, no questions asked.

 

Not international, but I have several friends who were.

You are definitely in a better spot being Canadian versus from SE asia or Latin America. Most banks have branches on Bay Street, and Duke will put you on par with Ivey, Queens, etc.

However, international students definitely have a rough time. I saw a lot of really qualified guys shot down; the banks won't say it, but it probably was due to the hassle of getting a visa, especially for a intern.

Basically, you will be at a small disadvantage, but, if you're a rockstar, you'll be fine.

 
West Coast rainmaker:
Not international, but I have several friends who were.

You are definitely in a better spot being Canadian versus from SE asia or Latin America. Most banks have branches on Bay Street, and Duke will put you on par with Ivey, Queens, etc.

However, international students definitely have a rough time. I saw a lot of really qualified guys shot down; the banks won't say it, but it probably was due to the hassle of getting a visa, especially for a intern.

Basically, you will be at a small disadvantage, but, if you're a rockstar, you'll be fine.

Please don't disseminate inaccurate information: 1) Don't worry about the quota, due to the recession it hasn't been even close to filling in the past few years. Also, some banks might ship you off to London or Hong Kong for a year, if you happen to be the unlucky one who doesn't get the visa and reapply for you for next year (I know cases).

2)YOU DO NOT NEED A WORK VISA AS AN INTERN. As an intern you apply for employment authorization on your own (OPT or CPT). The bank will not be involved with that. The only firms that will not hire international interns are the ones that do not sponsor for visas for full time: why would you take an intern if he/she won't make the transition into a full time position?

3)Most BBs sponsor for visas for full time for all front office roles. GS sponsors the back office as well. As someone in the thread mentioned BAML does not sponsor back office roles, nor does JPM.

 
searchinghop:
My question is which option is better for me.

The call is yours. No one can decide what is better for you, especially when you are looking for jobs with a close-minded attitude.

If your priority is to get a job right after grad and do OPT , you don't have to start with a consulting firm. There are plenty of F-500 companies that are recruiting for entry level positions in different field and they will sponsor you for the H1B1 visa after you complete your OPT.

Staying for an extra semester, just to go through OCR is not worth it either because you have no guarantee that you will get a consulting offer or a job offer.

By the way, if you find a job now, you won't be able to switch jobs next fall. No employers will want to hire you when they know that you will only be able to work for less than 10 months because whatever time you spend at your first job will get deducted from your OPT period.

You are making your life more complicated than it has to be.

Power and Money do not change men; they only unmask them
 
FlakieBear:
searchinghop:
My question is which option is better for me.

The call is yours. No one can decide what is better for you, especially when you are looking for jobs with a close-minded attitude.

If your priority is to get a job right after grad and do OPT , you don't have to start with a consulting firm. There are plenty of F-500 companies that are recruiting for entry level positions in different field and they will sponsor you for the H1B1 visa after you complete your OPT.

Staying for an extra semester, just to go through OCR is not worth it either because you have no guarantee that you will get a consulting offer or a job offer.

By the way, if you find a job now, you won't be able to switch jobs next fall. No employers will want to hire you when they know that you will only be able to work for less than 10 months because whatever time you spend at your first job will get deducted from your OPT period.

You are making your life more complicated than it has to be.

Thanks for the comment and the new perspective about employers looking at the remaining OPT period before making their hiring decision.

I do not think that I am being closed minded simply because of the fact that I am open to working outside US. In fact, I am trying to cast a wide net so that I can apply to opportunities within US as well as apply to opportunities in Asia effectively.

The only issue I can see not being able to attend the interviews in Singapore due to OPT restrictions. This is pertinent for me now since I am trying to coordinate an interview with Deloitte back in Singapore and am deciding if I should return back to Singapore before and after my graduation.

searching
 

Get OPT, and look for a company to sponsor you for H1B while there. It will be exceptionally hard to transfer back to the US for FT position once you are out of the country.

 

Option 1 is far better because you'll be testing yourself.

My experience: I was also an international student. Graduated May 2010 with interviews but no offers yet. I applied for OPT serveral months before graduation, and started OPT approx. mid-July 2010. Got an offer for full time position with a bank in September. Started working using OPT status, and got an H-1B application put in + approved Spring 2011.

 
KPP:
Option 1 is far better because you'll be testing yourself.

My experience: I was also an international student. Graduated May 2010 with interviews but no offers yet. I applied for OPT serveral months before graduation, and started OPT approx. mid-July 2010. Got an offer for full time position with a bank in September. Started working using OPT status, and got an H-1B application put in + approved Spring 2011.

Listen to his advice OP.

Take a couple of days , consider your options and make a decision.

Power and Money do not change men; they only unmask them
 
KPP:
Option 1 is far better because you'll be testing yourself.

My experience: I was also an international student. Graduated May 2010 with interviews but no offers yet. I applied for OPT serveral months before graduation, and started OPT approx. mid-July 2010. Got an offer for full time position with a bank in September. Started working using OPT status, and got an H-1B application put in + approved Spring 2011.

Hey KPP,

I am actually in the midst of applying for OPT too and am deciding on the starting date of OPT. I was thinking of starting on July 1. How did you decide on your start date?

searching
 

Good to hear. It's tougher having the work visa hurdle but I like to believe that it builds character to do this on your own. You can go back home whenever you want, so why not see if you can win the struggle here first?

 
CaliforniaAnalyst:
you went to brown and you got this shitty exp

wtf???

I was not able to find a good position with my electrical engineering degree at Brown so I went to grad school and I did not know about consulting until my senior year so it was too late to apply for FT in Spring. Most of my friends who got into Bain and BCG were in finance/ economics.

searching
 

There are only two options:

1.) Either the bank doesn't sponsor H1b, in which case there is no point to even talk to them and to try to make an argument that coming from an international background is a valuable asset. (You could, however, always ask them to forward your resume to their respective European/Asian office if you are interested in working there. It doesn't hurt to ask that question and could help you get an easy interview.)

2.) Tha bank does sponsor H1b - good for you, you are at least at par with a native-born because obviously, if the bank sponsors, they're interested in hiring a diverse group of people and this can only be to your benefit. Talk about diversity, how you can see things from a different perspective, how you could leverage your international experience in the future and work for their foreign office, how it helps you to be a more flexible person, how you can adapt to new situations quicker because you come from a diverse background.

All BBs sponsor H1b and don't differentiate/discriminate based on nationality. In fact, I asked a GS recruiter if it could be a disadvantage for me that I am foreign, and he looked at me and said that he thought it was illegal to discrimate based on nationality. Well in fact it isn't illegal and companies do it a lot. Not BB though.

I'd say about a half of MM does sponsor, and from that half, there are many that need to see something really valuable in you to justify the couple thousand $$ they'd have to pay for your H1b application. All in all, I'd say int'l have a lot higher chance at BB than at MM.

 

As a F1 student myself, I think the F1 status is by no means a bigger problem compared to a non-target background.

My future employer (a top boutique) sponsors H1b Visa, and promises they will try other ways even if my H1b case were declined. btw they never asked my immigration status until I accepted the offer.

and T73 was spot on: "Talk about diversity, how you can see things from a different perspective, how you could leverage your international experience in the future and work for their foreign office, how it helps you to be a more flexible person, how you can adapt to new situations quicker because you come from a diverse background."

 

Also, keep in mind it depends on market conditions a lot. Last year, both BofA and Wachovia were sponsoring. This year, they didn't. By the time you start interviewing this fall, the markets might be better than they are right now, but it seems like everyone's bets are inclining towards even tougher times ahead of us...

If I were you, I'd try applying in Europe/Asia. But coming from a non-target, you'll have to do more than just apply through the web sites. Try calling MM's offices directly and see if you can talk to highe people there. If they enjoy talking to you for 5-10 minutes, chances are they will give a good consideration to your resume as well. If it doesn't work out, go for Fortune 500 company or Big 4 valuation, work there for 3-4 years, get your MBA from a target school and try again.

Good luck!

 

I have the same question too! I do believe that IU Kelley is your best bet and looks like that's really something you want also. I heard great things about the IBW there. However, i'm looking for someone to help me with my question regarding International Opportunities too. Good Luck!

 

Kelley is a great option, however getting into the IBW is very, very difficult. The competition is steep and I will say, from experience, that majority of those in the workshop are non-international students. There are less than 5 in the entire network (IBW/IMW). Do not go to Kelley simply for the workshop.

 

I would advise against going to any of the schools if affordability is a factor. I would rather advise to go a school in Canada where you can get employment pass or a school in Singapore. I am a IU grad from India as well. PM me if you wanna talk more.

 

Rejection reason - your written english is good, but not great.

You also have to understand that while people don't necessarily mean to be racist, everyone is more comfortable with what they know. I-banking = long hours and one of the informal questions you are supposed to ask yourself as the person hiring is whether you feel good chemistry to pull those long hours with a candidate. Or, phrased differently, would you want this person sitting next to you on an 8 hour flight. It's another hurdle you will have to overcome.

What to do from here: how can you leverage your immigrant status? There have to be professional and social groups that you could network with. Networking is the best route to get an interview, crushing the interview and getting the job is going to all be up to you.

 

I know tons of Chinese people in technical areas like Quant, Risk, and Structured Products where superior technical/math skills trump "soft"/language skills. Math is more like the native language there. Also met two IBD Chinese analysts, but they went to college here and have almost zero accent.

What we do in life echoes in eternity - Maximus Decimus Meridius
 

Not sure which European targets don't cost more than $2400 for an academic year? Are you looking exclusively at German/Swiss/Dutch schools?

I'm talking about liquid. Rich enough to have your own jet. Rich enough not to waste time. Fifty, a hundred million dollars, buddy. A player. Or nothing. See my Blog & AMA
 

where do you get your infos that Rsm and Maastricht become more and more targeted ? (I will start the MSc. Finance at RSM in September, so that would be great news for me)

 

Dude, stop creating these type of threads. We get it you want assurance. Whatever school you go to you'll have a shot at IB.

Also, there's no in point creating these threads if you're not already admitted at one of the schools mentioned so stop wasting your time worrying. Not to mention that there are plenty of threads with the same questions as yours.

 

I'm an international that lived in the US for 5 years and worked there for one year. I also have many international friends that worked (or still work) in the US. Firstly whatever you heard about OCR isn't true. Yes, international students can participate in OCR. The only thing is that most companies are not willing to sponsor international visas, and the ones that do sponsor are typically very competitive.

The short answer to your question is no, I don't think it makes sense to study in the US unless you are authorized to work there. Most of my international friends agree with this. It has little to do with Trump, its mainly because H1B visas are so difficult to get (lottery system).

Feel free to message me if you have more targeted/specific questions.

 

Thank you! My last question is about a 2nd tier school such as uiuc and the chances of getting an IB gig from there, despite being an international? I guess very slim, right? Also it's probably not well known in Europe. And even a school like Maastricht would place better?

 

Alright lets set things straight. I am an International and did my masters in engineering at one of H/S/W )(ie., their respective engineering counterparts) and ended up taking their business school courses because of the flexibility in my degree and am currently in one of the BB as a Quant. I wouldnt say getting jobs is easy and this is from one coming from a good school. But for MBAs, all I can say is that unless you can get into one of the top ten, I would say getting jobs for Internationals, would be difficult. Because after you graduate, the company has to sponsor your work Visa and most of the MBAs ask for green card sponsorship since they end up working in the companies for a long time. So its a long term commitment. And also the pay has to be good since you do an MBA, you end up in a good position in the firm. So for such an investment, IB firms do finish their hiring from tier 1 schools. In general, the job market for Internationals, is not that great unless you have contacts in your current firm in the US or end up doing your MBA from a tier 1 school. This has been the case before the whole restriction stuff coming up in the news. So do weigh your options carefully or just wait out a year. ¯_(ツ)_/¯

 

Hi husky01, the silence is deafening, sorry about that.... Any of the threads below helpful?

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  • Non-target--> FT Off-Cycle IBD Analyst School Now for my story, I attended a large (20,000+ students) non-target school. We were in proximity to ... community. Really learned a lot and got my foot in door based on the advice on these forums. The Non-Target ... probably 70 of them. I Sent Over 400 Emails Being a non-target the people who were involved really enjoyed ...
  • HELP PLEASE. Non Target School, GPA =2.9, MA Student,looking for Adivices and hoping to break into Investment Banking World story I am 23 and a second year graduate student in a Business School at a Non Target School. I have ... GPA isn't a good way to break into the investment Banking World, but It hasn't been easy ... services at my school, i was able to speak to an alumni who works in a top 4 investment Banks on Wall ...
  • Where should I apply?- Currently international student-athlete at an average state school student-athlete at a average state school, recently had a very bad injury sadly it ended my college career. ... stats including being a student-athlete, running a internet business/ebay to cover traveling expenses to ... Hey guys, Was wondering if anyone could give me some advice. I'm currently a international ...
  • UG PE Analyst- 2.9 GPA, no internship, non-target this one ranks #25 and was originally posted 9/20/2015. From Non-Target Undergrad Straight to PE ... experience was invaluable, and I learned a ton. When I was hired by this boutique Investment/Merchant Bank ... Secondly, having genuine intellectual curiosity- unlike investment banking, investing requires a creative ...
  • More suggestions...

Maybe one of our professional members will share their wisdom: The Pope AcesEdge bhans2112

Fingers crossed that one of those helps you.

I'm an AI bot trained on the most helpful WSO content across 17+ years.
 

I think your question is too broad. International from where? Look at it this way, if you're South American, perhaps a LATAM group (think JPM, CS, ML) will be best suited to you.

 

i was wondering about the same things. my opt ends in jan since i graduated in the winter. for those of you who filed for h1b under premium processing, guess we'll know if we got lucky or not by the end of this week.

 

I am keeping my fingers crossed. The problem is last year people went to London, and those people were supposed to be back in October, but they might not get H1 and might have to stay there. They can't keep pushing people into London, hell doesn't London hire its own people? So I see people being pushed into Toronto, Mumbai, HK, Tokyo. Or getting fired.

 

Yeah, I got a lot of friends in this position, and I think I saw in all my offer letters that obtaining a visa was a condition of employment. I do not think firms can send everyone to London.

 

My program manager just called me last week and told me that I have been relocated to London for the entire two-year program including training. I would recommend calling your employer's HR to ask if they are considering such an option. In my case it came totally out of the blue.

 
kraftykuts:
My program manager just called me last week and told me that I have been relocated to London for the entire two-year program including training. I would recommend calling your employer's HR to ask if they are considering such an option. In my case it came totally out of the blue.

Is it BB in NYC? Did you already know you did not get the lottery?

 

Oconnor - Wages, bonuses, and everything else are now determined by the London office. I technically no longer have any relation to the firms' NYC program.

ghosht - Yes, it is a major BB in NYC. I knew that I did not get the lottery because I did not enter it, due to my late graduation.

 
Oconnor:
Well at least you get paid beter in London with the whole 2:1 thing going on... Seriously though, what a joke. They complain about Wall St. losing its edge, hmm I wonder why...

I believe its a little law called Sarbanes-Oxley...

 
Sabrine:
Yes, I know of at least two people who had to cancel or lose offers because of visa issues. One went back home, applied again, this time got successfully sponsored. Another went home and stayed there.

are you talking about IB or PE (since you work in PE). In IB its unlikely to happen (or so I hope), because they have so many international offices.

Anyone get feedback about the visa yet, or any updates as to what the BBs are doing this time around?

 

It should at least be a little better since several firms have repaid TARP (which was the main governing force in the hiring restrictions). How much better the hiring market for IB in general will be is still TBD, but I think the outlook id definitely better this year than last both in terms of banks repaying TARP, and a generally better economic position (not good, but better, for the most part) - as always, however, time will ultimately tell.

IBanker www.BankonBanking.com Articles, News, Advice and More Break Into Investment Banking

 

Shouldn't be too bad for internships (although I heard BofA doesn't even take intl interns?) but no idea for FT recruitment.

Wasn't there some Senator/Congressman trying to curb intl employment/reduce H1's given out?

 

Depends on what kind of internship. IBD I'm guessing?

Tough, given that you have no finance experience and a non-American style education. I'm guessing a HK accounting major is a 4-year program to obtain a BSc+MSc Accounting+CA, and you do no liberal arts, limited math/financial modeling, and it's very streamlined to the specific major you're doing (like all HK education from what I know). If you're just getting a BSc Accounting then I'd assume it's a 3-year program like most HK/British undergrad programs, in which case what year are you? Also, if you're an accounting major, why are you doing brand consulting, and why do you even want to work on Wall Street? What are your career plans?

What are your other stats (extracurriculars, etc.)? I think you would be better off trying to work in HK or maybe even Canada. This is coming from a Canadian-born Hong Kong Chinese studying at a US school.

 

Most bulge brackets hire internationals. Random ones like Wells Fargo don't. Big MMs/Elite boutiques do. All other shops its a toss up.

Once you get an interview, you're on an equal footing as everyone else. The only bias an interviewer might have is your accent depending on how difficult it is to understand you since they need bankers to form coherent sentences. Also, by no means should you put "English" as one of your languages on your resume, that's a dead give away that you're international/fobby.

 

Those programs provide an opportunity to rebrand yourself. If you went to a no name college in the middle of Iowa and wanted to break into Wall Street, going to Duke might help your cause by providing some OCR and an alumni network.

With your background, I don’t think you’re in need of rebranding. Network a bit, get a few more years of experience and pursue an MBA.

 
kimbo:
Those programs provide an opportunity to rebrand yourself. If you went to a no name college in the middle of Iowa and wanted to break into Wall Street, going to Duke might help your cause by providing some OCR and an alumni network.

With your background, I don’t think you’re in need of rebranding. Network a bit, get a few more years of experience and pursue an MBA.

Agreed. OP went to a top UG with decent (or close to decent) GPA and a top law school. His educational background is more than enough for a position in IB. So what's the goal? Why bother putting in another 100 grand for a good school brand on your resume?
 

I don't know how about London, but in the US it is a huge hurdle if you don't have at least a green card. In terms of networking - you have no advantage or disadvantage unless you do not speak English well. It's irrelevant where do you come from, but can help you in terms of having an interesting story. You should target people you want to work with no matter what is their background. If they are from your country - well, maybe there will be a connection, but maybe not.

 

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Just make sure you look into the work permit situation first. Switzerland is really restrictive when it comes to giving out work permits to non-EU citizens. Not sure whether it is the same for internships though.

Another thing to keep in mind is that both UBS and CS have laid of a lot of people in the last few years, especially in IB and PB.

Lastly, many employers want you to speak one of the official languages (German, French or Italian) and if you dont, and you are not a super star, they will hold that against you and give the job to a Swiss or German or someone else who is fluent in one of the languages.

 

Beny23,

Yes I was initially thinking about those two. Although i am not sure how much networking you can do in Zurich as an exchange student.

Pelle01,

One of the reasons for me to choose Zurich is to improve my German (conversational level thus far). I do need to check out the permits since I am a non-EU international (ironically i am from Europe)

Appreciate the comments peeps

 
Beny23:

Big chance especially Credit Suisse and UBS.

I have read a lot of BS on here, but this is just terrible advice. OP might actually think that this is true. Don't comment on something if you don't have any idea about what's going on in the country or with the companies!

Yes, Credit Suisse and UBS have big offices there. No, you won't get them easily. If you have been reading the news lately, you know that, especially UBS, has fired a huge amount of people (and I think they also sold a business unit). You should also read about the proposed policy changes when it comes to the Swiss bank account anonymity which are going to hurt both banks tremendously.

Your lack of German, which is the business language, won't help your search either. And getting a visa (assuming you also want to work in Switzerland after grad) will be hard. VERY HARD.

There is nothing wrong with studying abroad and improving your language. It will come in handy later. However, it is questionable if it gives you a better/any opportunity at a summer internship or full time offer.

Also, you should learn more about networking in Switzerland because it is very different from networking in the US/UK. Do you have any family connections in Switzerland?

I apologize if this sounds very harsh, but I just want you to have a better/realistic perspective.

 

Simply put, top banks will hire you if you are an exceptional candidate even if you're an international student. There is no point in hiring you if you aren't pretty dam impressive when they could hire any number of people as or more qualified than you are without Visa issues. To put it lightly, you aren't currently in a position to be competitive for a solid IB internship given your profile. To become competitive, network as hard as you possibly can, seriously bring your grades up, and get involved in some solid EC's- if possible, transfer to a target (that will make your chances skyrocket). In your position, I would get my grades up enough to transfer and then do it, even if it means I have to do an extra year of college. That depends on a bunch of factors like financial position etc of course.

 

Having a 3.5 won't matter when you graduate. You need it when you apply for internships. For someone in the US, it would still be hard to make it from Stony Brook -> IB with a 3.5.

There are a decent amount of banks that sponsor for visas. You're probably going to have a hell of a time getting someone to sponsor you though. There's a thread with a list of companies that sponsor, find it.

Technical knowledge is important, especially in your position.

As far as getting a job, you need to start networking. I'd bet against you networking into a BB/top boutique and I never gamble. But you still need to try and network with those people because they might connect you with someone else. You can try hitting smaller M&A shops for an internship, but there's almost zero chance they'll sponsor a work Visa.

You're in a bind. You have a low GPA (for IB recruiting), you go to a non-target, you haven't networked much if at all, and you need a Visa. Your best bet is getting as much work experience as possible. That means finding an internship with whoever will get you one, taking off-cycle (during spring/fall semesters) internships, and getting a 4.0 this semester and next semester.

Also, find the right forum to post in. Good luck.

"You stop being an asshole when it sucks to be you." -IlliniProgrammer "Your grammar made me wish I'd been aborted." -happypantsmcgee
 

First off, I'd bet against me too at this point :/ I know I have to get as much work exp as possible but I don't know where to start, or what to say. I'm okay with doing unpaid internships obviously(and I'm well aware nobody's gonna pay me anyways). My main question is, what do I say to employers if I get a hold of them, because chances are they'll hang up as soon as they hear I'm international. Should I tell them I'll volunteer to work or something along those lines? any suggestions?

 

Hi Daniel, keep networking with large banks if you want to break in early/work at a bank in Austria. Otherwise, try to find boutiques you can work for in--they can be more receptive.

For the lead! Sipag, tiyaga, at lakas ng loob!
 

@"hellocon" Hi again. Yes I have been working on that these past 2 semesters. Had a 3.75 gpa last semester and looking at 4.0 this semester. Which should push my GPA to 3.2-3.3 I have also applied to a lot of places, but haven't heard back from anyone yet. Any tips on what I should do now?

If you fall down, make sure you get back up with a vengeance!
 

You are prob better off looking into the requirements for every university. FYI, targets in EU should be HEC/ESADE/IE/LSE/Warwick/Imperial/Oxford/Cambridge, You could use the FT Msc in Finance Pre experience as a proxy

EDIT: Forgot Bocconi!

 

People tend to forget HSG as well as RSM and other targets in the german/dutch part of europe since only a minority of their programs are teached in english as well as the fact that the people who study there usually want to stay in their home country, however the people who actually want to go to London, usually get recruited since they're the only german/dutch speaking students. And RSM as an example only costs like 2000 euros.

 

People tend to forget HSG as well as RSM and other targets in the german/dutch part of europe since only a minority of their programs are teached in english as well as the fact that the people who study there usually want to stay in their home country, however the people who actually want to go to London, usually get recruited since they're the only german/dutch speaking students. And RSM as an example only costs like 2000 euros.

 

Are you a junior or sophomore in college? From what I know, BBs, MMs, and EBs should be done. You might have to go through alumni connections/smaller boutiques and gear up for next year.

For the lead! Sipag, tiyaga, at lakas ng loob!
 

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