IBD in Beijing
I saw a posting for an analyst at a BB IBD for full-time in Beijing.
Mandarin is requirement; i am wondering what proficiency are they expecting?
I saw a posting for an analyst at a BB IBD for full-time in Beijing.
Mandarin is requirement; i am wondering what proficiency are they expecting?
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if its beijing you need to be native or very close to native reading and writing
Generally speaking they're requiring native or very close these days. That said, there are some boutique shops and PE firms here which will take someone with "basic fluency" - but you still have to be damn good. If you got an A in 400 level Chinese class last year - you're still not good enough. If you got an A in 400 level "heritage" chinese class (like advanced business mandarin, etc), that could work.
If it's a BB there's no question they're going to require native mandarin for anyone below a VP.
Questions regarding Beijing IBD (Originally Posted: 05/02/2011)
Done
If you're white, forget it. Go to HK. If you don't know any Chinese, stay in the US.
IBD in China is done in Chinese. It may have been different in the past when westerners were getting offices set up, but now the show is pretty much run by local hires. Most analyst jobs go to connected princelings (children of the business, political, and military elite) who either studied abroad in the US at a top-30 school or went to Beida/Tsinghua/Fudan. It is not a meritocratic hiring process.
Can't answer your questions about class sizes, and pay, but I am skeptical that comp runs anywhere near international standards in China at the entry level. I know HK salaries are higher than the US and include housing and lower taxes.
You should make the effort to learn what bankers do and basic financial statement analysis.
More importantly, I think you should ask yourself why you want to do banking and why you want to do it in China. If you don't know the language and have never been before, but want to go because it's "cool" or you read on some blog that a lot of deals and capital raising are happening in China, you're wasting everybody's time. If you're a well-connected Chinese, I'm not quite sure why you're posting here.
I'm Chinese, have some connections that can get me in the door in form of an internship, but certainly not one who would be considered a princeling. I live in beijing, so I am asking because I want to know if interning in Beijing would be worth the while, or should I just go straight to Hk. I am pretty dead set on this banking path so it's not like I am asking these questions just for the sake of asking. Thanks again for your reply, am getting a clearer picture of what banking is like in BEijing. :) greatly appreciate it for taking the time to reply!
If you are Chinese Chinese (not ABC or CBA), you have a lot of options and don't necessarily need to go the BB route.
HK is really only a viable financial center because of the PRC's byzantine financial and monetary regulations. It's only a matter of time before the PRC reforms its policies on capital flows and capital markets, at which point HK and the HKSE as a go-to destination for Western and Chinese financiers will cease to be relevant.
It remains to be seen how the BB's in Asia will handle that transition. The trend in China is for local companies to fill the niches once occupied by foreign multinationals. It's hard to predict if a BB brand name will be an asset or a relative liability in the future as Chinese alternatives such as CICC or CITIC are already in place.
That said, I'm sure pay and training will be much better at a BB in HK, though you may want to consider the networking and guanxi opportunities available to you at a local PRC firm.
At least among the analyst candidates I interviewed while working in Beijing (several hundred), positions in HK seemed to be the most desirable internship destinations. I would talk to your connections and see what their advice is.
I would wager that there is more upside in the long run at a local firm, but definitely better short term benefits from the BB HK route. If you're good at what you do and network like crazy, I think you can be successful with either choice.
How fluent in Chinese do I need to be to work in IB in Beijing? (Originally Posted: 11/07/2009)
I am looking to apply for investment banking at a BB in Beijing. My question is how fluent in Chinese do I need to be to do the work? I can speak and read Chinese fine but my writing skills are questionable.
What do you guys think?
konichiwa?
thats Japanese. retard
I would say go for it, if you get the job just work on your writing skills before the start date
Even for the Hong Kong office, fluency in Mandarin (written AND spoken) is highly valued. I can only imagine that its essential in Beijing.
Be upfront about your Mandarin skills (on your application and resume). Chances are, you WILL be interviewed in Mandarin and, in many cases, asked to translate or read a financial document. I know tonnes of people who's idea of "fluency in spoken mandarin" is basic menu items and shit that any foreigner can pick up.
Don't expect to learn how to read/write mandarin fluently in a few months. Its a language (a very complex one at that) and, like all languages, isn't going to be mastered in a few months - at least if your goal is to use it as a working language and not some tourist trying to pick up chicks. If you don't know how to read/write fluently, you're going to be useless as an Analyst. Imagine doing IB in NY with a fluency in English similar to your fluency in Mandarin and you'll have a good idea whether you'll do well or not.
Positions in Beijing are best reserved for Tsinghua/Beida grads but who knows, apply and hope for the best! If you are hoping that this is a way to break into banking, you'll soon realize that there are tonnes of talented grads locally.
if you can read and speak in simplified Chinese you should be fine.
Keep in mind Beijing is not as international friendly as Hong Kong. I know bankers that r just fine w knowing english in hong kong, thats not the case in Mainland.
BB's only hire 1-6 kids for beijing and they sure as heck dont pick u.s. schools. enjoy getting ur online app IGNORED.
i know for most banks with the exception of UBS/GS that Beijing office is basically pure backoffice.
If you're a chinese citizen, GS automatically moves you to Beijing (read: you dont even have the option of working in HK)
You have no idea what you're talking about
Not sure which part you disagree with, but if I am wrong please do correct me.
UBS and GS have very much established franchises in China (and are two of the 3-4 firms that have license to issue A-shares). As a result, their Beijing offices are comparably better.
I know with respect to other BB's, a lot of the Beijing and Shanghai offices are staffed by mainlanders. And they are minimally staffed. When we were doing mainland IPO's in HK, the Beijing office's primary function was support/translation. And I'm pretty sure they're not paid the same.
With respect to my claim about GS, it is my understanding that if you only hold a Chinese citizenship, you will be moved to the Beijing office for full-time. This was the policy when I applied, but please correct me if I am indeed wrong.
So so wrong.... seriously...!!!!
now think about this logically... which firm would have a hiring policy of allocating purely on citizenship? That is a decision factor yes, but not automatic. BTW .. when you do apply for a role make sure you fill out the region you are applying for...down to the city!!!
no offense, but this is just so..... (i am speechless)
I worked the previous summer at CICC and I barely got by with my Chinese (albeit, i was a sophomore and this was asset management). I was just hoping that at a BB, things would be considerably more english friendly. My family actually lives in Beijing. Thanks for the responses. deeply appreciated!
if you can speak and read fluently, you should be fine. Yes you will have a disadvantage compared to locals who can write perfectly, however you also have an advantage coming from a US school, they're suckers for foreign schools. So basically it balances out. This is assuming you went to a pretty decent and well known US school.
let us know how it works out, seems interesting
BB's will be much more English friendly in their HK office. Beijing will require pretty strong Chinese generally (for sure w/UBS).
Don't write fluent in Chinese on your resume unless you can read Chinese articles (from personal experience lol).
Hopefully you know someone that can forward your resume instead of just applying online?
Wufei, I definitely am forwarding my resume through someone instead of just applying online. Competition's too fierce otherwise. Do you work in China? I'd love to get your insight.
Everyone else, thanks for the input. I'll definitely let you guys know how my summer pans out. My backgrounds kind of weird actually. I was raised in Beijing but I went to an international school all my life so english is my first language while Chinese was something I picked up on the streets and through language electives.
if you can read fluently you can write fluently on the computer using pinyin. that's all you need, when would you need to write stuff by hand nowadays, even in english.
Absolutely. Will be even easier typing actually cuz you'll know what you want to write (even reading sometimes you encounter an unknown word and have to guess through context).
I know for a fact that there is not a single summer analyst / first-year analyst that's ABC. Every single summer / first-year at Goldman Sachs Gao Hua is a Chinese citizen. A portion of the kids, from Ivy league schools in the US, interviewed for Hong Kong positions --- but guess what, got transferred to Beijing due to citizenship status.
Goldman Sachs is strategically localizing their office - because if you knew anything about doing business in China, you'd know that relationships are 95% of the reason mandates are won (and literally about half of GS's BJ office summer analyst class have very, very strong relationship backgrounds).
Edit:
Oh and by the way... this may be specific to Goldman but when you apply to their Asia-Pacific Ex-Japan offices, all the interviews are held together. GS reserves the right to place you into any APAC office they see fit (Beijing, Seoul, Hong Kong, Taipei). So even if you put down "Hong Kong", when they extend you an offer and you're a chinese citizen, they'll extend the offer from Beijing. Same is true for Korean nationals (i.e. holds Korean passport --- they automatically get staffed in Seoul.
Hi all, I've started at CICC full time as an IB analyst since mid-July. Just wanted to thank everyone for their comments. Getting around without full writing proficiency in Chinese has been tough but as the bank is expanding its overseas operations so I'm getting a lot of English work lately too. For anyone interested, feel free to PM me for additional details!
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