IBD in Europe

Mauw's picture
Rank: Chimp | 8

I know that there are a few real target schools in Germany, so I was wondering if the Frankfurt School of Finance and Management is a bad choice. I won't be able to attend universities due to my degree, so I have either the choice of private schools (WHU / EBS won't consider me a candidate either) or colleges (lacking the correct translation).

Are there any suggestion which schools would be a good choice? US colleges are way to expensive for me though, so that won't be a choice I can make.

Comments (64)

Feb 2, 2011

St. Gallen, although actually is in Switzerland. If you cant get into unis, its going to be hard in Germany, where private schools are not so widespread, WHU/EBS being more exception cases. You could try Uk and France.

Valor is of no service, chance rules all, and the bravest often fall by the hands of cowards. - Tacitus

Dr. Nick Riviera: Hey, don't worry. You don't have to make up stories here. Save that for court!

Feb 2, 2011

ESB Reutlingen could also be an option for IB in Frankfurt.

Feb 2, 2011

St Gallen won't accept the degree as well. I don't know how familiar you are with the german educational system, but I will get a Fachhochschulreife (university of applied sciences entrance qualification; if the translation I found is correct), which isn't widely accepted.

Feb 2, 2011

try HSG if they don't take your prty dead as far as germany go(if WHU/EBS) isnt an option. Try the UK, what degree exactly do you have out of interest?

Feb 2, 2011

I don't know your degree but in France there is special application for foreign students. Take a look at http://www.hec.fr/Grande-Ecole/Admissions/Admissio... You could also look at ESSEC & ESCP wich are also very good schools.

Feb 2, 2011

Thank you very much Squale, but I don't speak French at a level which would allow me to study there.

Feb 2, 2011
Mauw:

Thank you very much Squale, but I don't speak French at a level which would allow me to study there.

I'm not sure but I think that it's possible to attend to this schools even if you can only speak English. Moreover ESCP has a campus in Berlin ;)

Feb 2, 2011

I think Frankfurt School of Finance and Management will actually give you a good shot at investment banking. It used to be an academy by most of the banks in frankfurt to train salesmen and traders. Now its working in close cooperation with most of the banks in Frankfurt.

Their OCR includes FIPEMA which is a private equity and M&A institute at the school which offers any type of internships from Cinven to Goldman Sachs. Most students already start at a partner bank during their studies so job prospects should be fine.

PM if you want some more info.

Feb 2, 2011

Have a look at the FIPEMA job market site. Should give you a good overview of the banks recruiting at Frankfurt School.

http://www.frankfurt-school.de/content/de/fipema/j...

Feb 2, 2011

Dude ever heard about mannheim? I study there and like some friends there i got interviews for sa positions at goldman,ms,jpm, you name it. I accepted one out of 2 offers and had to reject Goldman. Every day there's another bank at our uni holding a presentation. They love us because unlike whu/ebs we excel at maths, had better grades in school and cause we have to study so much more as its germany's toughest uni.

Feb 2, 2011

Dude ever heard about mannheim? I study there and like some friends there i got interviews for sa positions at goldman,ms,jpm, you name it. I accepted one out of 2 offers and had to reject Goldman. Every day there's another bank at our uni holding a presentation. They love us because unlike whu/ebs we excel at maths, had better grades in school and cause we have to study so much more as its germany's toughest uni.

Feb 2, 2011

must be awesome if all those banks love you.................

"germanys thoughets uni" lol you are such a badass (given your ridiculous tone of voice I just had to say something)

May 28, 2013

I knew a couple analysts from the Frankfurt School at my bank, which was a large BB.

I actually think your best bet is to go abroad, if you can't get into WHU, HSG, Mannheim, EBS etc. If you study in German and are not at one of the above they will almost categorically filter you out. Try for a good university in the UK, they aren't nearly as expensive as the US and you will have a better chance at getting into IBD in Frankfurt. Frankfurt IBD is a bit clueless with regards to foreign universities, so you're better off going to a solid UK university that sounds good than a mid/low-tier German non-university, which they know is not so great.

The key will be your grades (extremely important in Germany) and your internships (the more the better, and the closer to IBD the better, again extremely important in Germany). Some German kids had up to 5 internships pre IBD analyst and some had internships of up to 6 months.

May 28, 2013
hendrixbro:

I knew a couple analysts from the Frankfurt School at my bank, which was a large BB.

I actually think your best bet is to go abroad, if you can't get into WHU, HSG, Mannheim, EBS etc. If you study in German and are not at one of the above they will almost categorically filter you out. Try for a good university in the UK, they aren't nearly as expensive as the US and you will have a better chance at getting into IBD in Frankfurt. Frankfurt IBD is a bit clueless with regards to foreign universities, so you're better off going to a solid UK university that sounds good than a mid/low-tier German non-university, which they know is not so great.

The key will be your grades (extremely important in Germany) and your internships (the more the better, and the closer to IBD the better, again extremely important in Germany). Some German kids had up to 5 internships pre IBD analyst and some had internships of up to 6 months.

I think he already made his choice, given that the thread is more than two years old. How do people even find those old topics?

May 28, 2013

Yup, sorry about that. I'm new here, guess it shows. The topic popped up in the related WSO content box at the bottom and I assumed it must be recent - didn't check the dates.

My bad.

May 28, 2013

1) Yes (Im thinking about London).

2) Im not completely sure, but I think A2A without going to BSchool is more common in Europe (and by Europe, again, I mean London...).

May 28, 2013
Pedo_Bear:

1) Do European investment bankers get compensated at about the same level as their American counterparts?

2) Are the analyst programs 2 years and back to business school or is there more flexibility for direct promotion w/o MBA?

2) definitely more flexibility. Plenty of people leave but it's quite common for associates not to have MBA

May 28, 2013

Send it over.

The HBS guys have MAD SWAGGER. They frequently wear their class jackets to boston bars, strutting and acting like they own the joint. They just ooze success, confidence, swagger, basically attributes of alpha males.

May 28, 2013

Sure I'd be happy to look at it

May 28, 2013

PM'd you both :)

May 28, 2013

Anyone else kind enough to give some honest advice please?

May 28, 2013

....anyone? Really need some help :)

May 28, 2013

Upload it on razume and post it like everyone else?

May 28, 2013

Prefer to PM it for privacy reasons. Sorry!

May 28, 2013

Anyone who can please comment? I'm getting more and more rejections and am clueless what to do to improve.

May 28, 2013
cujo.cabbie:

Anyone who can please comment? I'm getting more and more rejections and am clueless what to do to improve.

bit late now then isn't it...? frankly, no one can be bothered to PM. sensor it, put it online for all, you'll get a lot more feedback

May 28, 2013

needs more detail on your experience. two bullets isn't conveying much other than the generic. think what happened to your recommendations etc..follow up with your old internships to see if the deals closed after you left...

May 28, 2013

[posted in the wrong place ignore me]

May 28, 2013

Yup I had a better broken down version for experience - deals and then what I did - trying to find this version. The version I uploaded now was edited for non-IBD jobs.
All deals feel through btw (I did follow up)

May 28, 2013

double post

May 28, 2013

double post

May 28, 2013

double post

May 28, 2013

I'm studying in Europe right now...schools are ranked!

May 28, 2013

Well, I am definitely out of touch then.

May 28, 2013

in the UK, once you hit top pay brackets, taxes basically tend towards 40% (not that bad compared to say germany).

AFAIK US is actually not really better?

on the other hand, the low capital gains tax in the us is nice, assuming dems don't reverse it

May 28, 2013

Yeah schools are ranked for sure. I studied in France for exchange and they would talk about rankings as much as they do here.

May 28, 2013

You need EU citizenship/passport otherwise you will have a huge disadvantage. Languages are also an asset, but not necessary (This is the feel I get).

May 28, 2013

[quote=Robert]You need EU citizenship/passport otherwise you will have a huge disadvantage.quote]

This is not true, unless you want to work for a shitty bank.

May 28, 2013

Yeah probably, but even so, employers will rather hire people with the legal right to work. I am Canadian and I am not even bothering to apply to the U.S since the chances of landing a job are slim since I do not have a green card, unless I get the job through a EU office. That's why I am applying for mostly Europe.

May 28, 2013

You don't get payed much since Europe is a big socialist hellhole. Have fun giving half of your salary away.

May 28, 2013

I'm American, studying in Europe, got an offer at a bank in London. You don't need to be an EU citizen--the only banks that won't apply for a Visa are crappy ones and you don't want to work for them anyway.

Yeah the taxes are a lot but I'll be making $80K my first year, which doesn't include any performance-based bonuses. Even post-tax it's good money.

May 28, 2013

If you're a US citizen, won't you be paying income tax in the US?

May 28, 2013

Anyone know the european rankings for bschools apart from what FT has? Where does Insead stand? and how is placement at Insead?

May 28, 2013

Yes, I would think that you would until you get residency in the UK (a few years down the road).

May 28, 2013

My understanding is that American citizens are obliged to pay taxes in the US regardless of where they live and/or work. So if you're a US citizen and planning on working in London, you may want to get some legal/tax advice on this.

May 28, 2013

The U.S. and the UK have tax agreements (the US has that with a lot of countries). You can choose where to pay the income tax, it is kind of complicated because there are certain formulas to calculate the tax burden for US and Uk and then you can choose whichever is lower depending on maximum and minimum limits. So don't worry about taxes, you are not going to overpay.

May 28, 2013

Thanks for the feedback, Sylvester.
Do you happen to know what the best source is for a general overview of tax agreements between US and UK, particularly wrt income tax?

May 28, 2013

you will pay some major taxes over there.....there's a great tool on bloomberg where you can find different tax rates/cost of living. The average rate in America (taking into account property tax, sales tax, income tax - basically all of the taxes) is 25%. It's 45% in the UK and France. That's a BIG difference! I just don't think EU has a strong enough business focus to move over there to work. When they survey most French people, the majority said they would rather work for the government....in fact, a lot of people look down on business over there.

May 28, 2013

Hi,

Yes you are right, the market is hot, and I-banks are looking. That doesn't mean it is easier to get in there.
Houlihan Lokey is actually flying me to London next week.
Good luck.

May 28, 2013

nyc9982, where is this tax rate tool?

strange i thought that US taxes were really high considering you pay state taxes on top of federal tax.

May 28, 2013

but you exempt state taxes from federal..... just search on bloomberg - I don't remember the shortcut. But I mean c'mon - taxes in Europe are SO much higher. Why do you think we have so many more rich people here? Crap, they are looking to pass a bill in London that charges a $45 toll to drive an SUV into the city.

May 28, 2013

Yeah but if you've sat in London traffic (which I do daily) you'll understand why. Anyone working in Canary Wharf or the City can take the tube or light rail to work, who cares about SUVs? Why do you need an SUV in central London anyway?

All I know is, even with taxes, if I have a high yield savings account, then go back to the States in a few years, I'll have a ton of money as long as the dollar stays weak.

May 28, 2013

Well, I don't really know where you could find tax agreements online, I would guess the IRS website, but if you are still in school, I would go to the Payroll Office on campus. If you have international students on campus, the payroll office has all the country tax agreements. Also you can try looking up - "tax treaties" and "foreign tax credit" online. Hope this helps.

nyc9982
I haven't worked in Europe but my parents who still live there pay pretty high taxes compared to what i pay here. Also at least in my country, tax law is much more simplified and the tax brakes are not as many.

gszabo1
Thank you very much and good luck on the interview. But I didn't mean it is going to be easier, all I have been told is that the name of your school is not going to shut the door in your face, which I believe is the case here. All I am saying is that I don't think they would put 99% weight on that but would also look at your grades, undergrad work, internships, EC's. And I think there it is a bit more diversified on that note, because from my experience here it is pretty much a top 50 school or not. I can imagine HR sitting with the rankings of US News and dumping anything that doesn't fit in. I am European and I know how important grades and exams are back there, it is just a different mentality.

May 28, 2013
sylvester:

gszabo1
Thank you very much and good luck on the interview. But I didn't mean it is going to be easier, all I have been told is that the name of your school is not going to shut the door in your face, which I believe is the case here. All I am saying is that I don't think they would put 99% weight on that but would also look at your grades, undergrad work, internships, EC's. And I think there it is a bit more diversified on that note, because from my experience here it is pretty much a top 50 school or not. I can imagine HR sitting with the rankings of US News and dumping anything that doesn't fit in. I am European and I know how important grades and exams are back there, it is just a different mentality.

Hi,

I agree, but actually I don't go to a top 50, not even a top 100. I think if you have a good cover letter, and a good background (in my case sports), then you are good to go. Obviously HR has to appreciate what you have done. Companies that only look for top 10 schools etc, are not even worth working at. I had some interviews, and I truly would not fit in to some top companies, and would not want to work with some of those people. Good luck, I hope you find something you will enjoy.

May 28, 2013

Thanks again, Sylvester

May 28, 2013

just using the car tax as an example...taxes are high and numerous over there. I think it's a good place to live for a few years, but not to try and accumulate wealth.

May 28, 2013
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May 28, 2013
May 28, 2013