Boutiques. Unless you've been doing something out of the ordinary for your work experience, you'll need to look at places with less structured processes.

No BB or EB is going to take you 3-6 years out of college, if only because they have no idea how to evaluate you compared to rest of the talent pool. It is so much more likely that you would get into a decent enough MBA program and break in from there.

 

That may be true, but I don't have any knowledge of PE recruiting as an IB Associate or how common it is.

But I'm telling you, it is highly highly unlikely that you'll find success in the analyst recruiting pipeline. Don't take my word for it- talk to someone in your network or find a banker and ask them. Their response will be no, unless there are extraordinary circumstances in your background.

 

I've networked with regional boutiques enough to know that you could even go on as an associate, and without an MBA. Look for lean shops with 8-15 guys, and like BluePilotG4 said, less structure. I can't speak from experience here, but it sounds like it's possible to lateral to a top MM after a year at a regional boutique. Although you may need an MBA at that point. Hope this helps!

 

i know a few who've gone down that route and will be trying to do the same myself i think it depends on your specific situation...many that I know were a few years behind their coworkers because they did some sort of atypical masters degree and then switched careers I think you just really need to prove that even though you're in your late 20's, you have no problem grinding out the long hours and working like a 22yr old its possible at BB's, but much easier at boutiques

 

If you're trying for a lateral, if you are coming from a fairly similar background and skill sets (corp dev from industry, big 4 financial advisory, etc), it's definitely doable. The other alternative to consider is doing an MBA and joining as an associate.

If Pe is your goal: I know there's a lot of talk about PE being more accessible via analyst (and it is, no doubt), but people have moved from associate IBD roles too.

 
Best Response

You could highlight that the firm is owned by a large Chinese conglomerate in the resume (e.g. Firm X (subsidiary of US$XXB Chinese conglomerate)) or something along those lines.

I would say the work experience and responsibilities you've had are more important. Try highlighting your deal experience, or pick transactions or prospective deals that highlight skill sets important in IB (e.g. valuation, financial modeling, presentations, research, due diligence, etc.). If you've done or seen plenty of deals, then you should definitely highlight them.

I think WSO has some sample resume templates.

 

I really don't understand why anyone would even want to do this, but yes, this should be possible. The RE skills/community have more in common with each other than IBD RE has with IB, so it should be an easier sell than other coverage areas.

That being said, you're still fighting an steep, uphill battle if you're trying to break into BB/EB. They have a recruiting process that gives them a flow of reliable, hard-working talent and it works very well. Getting them to stray from that takes their time and energy that really isn't worth it- even for the most potential rockstar analyst.

 

I don't think its so much about age, just more like you have too much working experience. I know first year analysts that are 32 years old, but they came from other countries and just graduated from undergraduate. A bank won't know where to place you because you are overqualified for an entry level job, but you don't have the background for an associate position. Best bet is B school.

 

Depends on where you live. Some countries go through military training first, so their analysts are older like 25-27. I guess you're referring to america, so I can't help you there. But in my country, there are one or two analysts that I've seen at a MM.

 

If you can make some solid connections through networking and maybe some information interviews, you should be ok. Take advantage of any BB recruiting that happens at your school even if it isn't your desired firm or work location. Seems as though there is a fair bit of IBD/ER expansion happening out west - hopefully you can capitalize on it. Also, make sure your resume is in good shape. I'm from a Canadian non-target as well and so many people are clueless about creating a resume that it's an easy way to distinguish yourself to employers right off the bat. Best of luck!

 

Thank you very much for the advise, I will definitely make sure I spend considerable time in making a quality resume.

I also noticed that there is quite a bit of positions offered on the Calgary CFA Society's website. That also shows that in Western Canada things are a little different, they don't mind the CFA and actually a lot of the positions mention the CA.

Anyway, good luck to you too!

 
Lak08er34:
No, go have kids or something your old.
Ignore the troll. Yes, you can. You're going to get some funny looks, so have a good story why you're a decade older than the average college grad.
Get busy living
 

^By them time you are 30, and worked decently hard since you were 22, you should be at least VP at a F500. By the time you are 30 you have 8 years of w/e industry exp under your belt, you can go VC, work at a startup, etc etc.

 
Malakari:
^By them time you are 30, and worked decently hard since you were 22, you should be at least VP at a F500. By the time you are 30 you have 8 years of w/e industry exp under your belt, you can go VC, work at a startup, etc etc.

He is just graduating at 30.

 

I really don't think anyone will know or can really find out. As long as you put your resume together as if you came out of high school and then into university and are now looking for your first real gig, you should have no problem. Also, don't listen to all the by 30 you should be......it is all bullshit; it may be the way a lot of people go about their finance career but not everyone. Best of luck and keep us posted.

 
Higheck123:
I really don't think anyone will know or can really find out. As long as you put your resume together as if you came out of high school and then into university and are now looking for your first real gig, you should have no problem. Also, don't listen to all the by 30 you should be......it is all bullshit; it may be the way a lot of people go about their finance career but not everyone. Best of luck and keep us posted.
Seriously. A guy that lives a few blocks over from me was in the Navy for 17 years and then got his MBA and opened a hedge fund at almost 40. Once you leave high school, it becomes exponentially less important what you do year by year as time goes on.

Life is not a video game

Get busy living
 

As far as I know to get into a decent MSF program, you will need at least a 2.1 degree. As for IBanks not taking people who don't have straight paths, I think this isn't necessarily correct. There are several people from liberal arts backgrounds and such who have managed to break in, but you need a good story and great grades for this as far as I know, and attending a well reknowned school helps too. In short, nothing is impossible, but expect this to be a hard slog.

 

Yes, you can start in IBD after finishing a MBA at 28-29. The bigger issue is that you need to come from a top MBA program to do so, which may not be achievable if you've been working in retail banking.

 

For an analyst position you have it correct. However, at 28/29 years old you more than likely wouldn't be competing for an analyst position unless you did 5 years in the military before starting undergrad or something.

MM IB -> Corporate Development -> Strategic Finance
 
SECfinance:
For an analyst position you have it correct. However, at 28/29 years old you more than likely wouldn't be competing for an analyst position unless you did 5 years in the military before starting undergrad or something.

But would a bank hire someone out of MBA without any prior IBD experience for an associate position? This is what baffles me....

 

It's a tough one to answer. I'm going to be 32 by the time I finish with B-School and apply for Associate positions in M&A (also in Europe). From what I've read, age is less of an issue on continental Europe as students tend to graduate a little later and have less structured career paths than, say, the U.S. Will be a Summer Analyst be possible at 26-27 here? Yes, but I think more than anything it depends on whether you are willing to potentially have people above you who are younger (I personally would have an issue with a 24-year old shouting at me).

 

The right question to ask would be, whether your still genuinely interested in IB when the opportunity arises. If you are, and you can get an IB gig, age shouldn't matter. Everyone has their own paths in life. Why bother with comparing.. If you're too conscious of this.. IB is prob not the gig for you.

 

Age in EMEA is irrelevant. Most analysts start around 24-27. Especially since almost everyone comes with a master's degree in hand and most don't return to university for an MBA. Unlike in US, where analysts consider business school after 2-3 years as an Analyst.

 

If you've been involved with Bus Dev then you should already have a good conceptual understanding of M&A. I don't see how these light modeling courses would be helpful to you. If I saw your resume and it included years of experience in BD and then a modeling course, it would only raise flags to me. If you really think you could benefit from the courses feel free to take them, but I wouldn't list them on your resume.

The fact that you have workout experience is useful in PE during distressed situations. However, to be honest at your level your primary competition on the PE side (besides those already in PE) are investment bankers who are at the MD level, and it's really not a question of whether you can do the job, but what the credentials of your counterparts are.

On the banking side, you may have a shot, although I've never seen the move done so late in the game at a large bank (I worked for a bulge with no commercial arm so maybe those with experience at JPM/BofA/Citi, etc. can chime in).

It'd be helpful to know what kind of commercial bank you were with (is it attached to an investment bank? Regional player? Do you have exposure to financial sponsors, leveraged products or syndicated finance?). Any kind of credit experience that you can tout that has a similar feel to IBD is a plus. Also, while admittedly the transistion will be an uphill battle, why not consider other halfway options? For example, many hedge funds have leveraged credit funds, distressed credit funds, etc. Many hedge funds are now so engulfed in all portions of the cap structure that there's opportunities all along the ladder that may seem "sexier" to you than being a commercial banker. A VP at a commercial bank that I know of recently made a switch to a large HF/PE's credit fund that works primarily with 2nd lien and senior unsecured credits. Not exactly M&A or PE, but certainly a step in that direction. The pay happens to be significantly better, too.

 

My biggest challenges are my lack of network in the IBD/HF/PE world and no prior exposure to financial sponsors, leverage or syndicated finance.

My thinking to take one of the modelling courses is two fold:

1) Gain formal modelling training, particularly for lbo models (never had it before). However, I do not know how close these training models will be to real life scenarios and how complex the depiction will be.

2) Utilize the trainers to network within the industry. Again, not sure what are their placement records and how successful this approach can be.

In addition, I have worked for a large financial institution with a BB IB (I was not located on the NYC). I have also worked for a large regional bank, off the Street. Both of these banks are in the top 10 US banks and recently did not have to cut their dividends or had a need to raise new capital.

 

My feeling is that the training courses are not going to be that useful. To do an analyst's or associate's job, you really need to be able to sit down in front of a model and understand it within a few hours (even if you have never seen one of its kind before). If you don't already have the Excel skills to do that, no amount of LBO training courses are going to get you there.

 

I think good points have been made here, but from what I've seen it's quite difficult to move into a bulge bracket or large PE role coming from a non-traditional background (e.g. you spent a good part of your life doing something besides banking/PE).

For someone with your level of work experience, a modeling course is not going to be helpful, either in terms of getting the job or understanding it. Your time/money would be better spent going after actual positions at places that better suit your experience.

Banks are currently not hiring (well, a bit of an exaggeration but you get the point)... it's pretty much a bloodbath all over, and it would be very difficult to switch at a late stage in your life even if the market were better.

I would suggest the better approach is to go for smaller PEs/HFs that would appreciate your experience rather than aiming for the top right away. If you have no exposure to leverage or anything that may be difficult, but it's a lot more viable than going for a BB, given the stage you're at.

In terms of the lack of network, I would stretch and go through all your existing contacts and see what you can find - I'm sure there at least a few who deal with PE/HF types. Also consider your alumni network, even though you're far removed from school don't discount that.

 

The only I-banks that may be interested in you are small (really small) boutiques. Your only real chance is to do some type of leveraged finance at a hedge fund or private equity fund.

I wouldn't even waste my time contacting I-banks, regardless of whether you take a modeling course. One potential is to pursue something at a location that no sane person would consider - Dubai, India, etc. Their standards are probably lower.

btw, you may be surprised to know that many I-bankers look at commercial banking as a sweet deal, regardless of the smaller paycheck. Less hours, going golfing with clients, less time sitting in front of a computer. A buddy of mine golfs about 45 times a summer with clients and has his country club membership paid by the bank. Not bad at all.

 

"One potential is to pursue something at a location that no sane person would consider - Dubai, India, etc. Their standards are probably lower."

Care to explain where this is even coming from? No sane person?... Be it that Mumbai maybe be a bit less conventional for now than Dubai, I don't think its a totally irrational location with low standards.

 

There have been some really constructive views and comments from some people and I want to thank them for it. However, now we are veering off the path a bit.

Can we now get back to the topic under discussion. I would really like to hear from others who have some real opinions and experiences that I can benefit from.

 
blackcleo:
I'm sure that Dubai pays well. But, I repeat, no sane anglophile would go there.

Dubai, I can understand. Civil liberties issues there.

But why Mumbai? I thought that's where everyone wants to be. Along with Shanghai and Hong Kong...

 

You think that graduates from prominent universities are chasing I-banking jobs in Mumbai, India? I suppose anything is possible.

Now Shanghai and Hong Kong are great possibilities, but you generally have to speak Mandarin or some other Chinese language.

btw, I speculated that i-banking employment is easier to obtain in Dubai because I constantly see positions advertised.

 
blackcleo:
You think that graduates from prominent universities are chasing I-banking jobs in Mumbai, India? I suppose anything is possible.

Now Shanghai and Hong Kong are great possibilities, but you generally have to speak Mandarin or some other Chinese language.

btw, I speculated that i-banking employment is easier to obtain in Dubai because I constantly see positions advertised.

i know some pe professionals antsing to get into india. ditto for folks trying to lateral into the mumbai office. that said, many of them are indian, maybe they just want to go home...

 

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We're Italian, "WACC" means something else to us.
 

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