"Hi Jeff, Everyone was very impressed with your interviews today. We are excited to formally extend to you an offer to join Bank of Ameria Merrill Lynch as an analyst next summer."

Comes to mind.

"Dude, not trying to be a dick here, but your shop looks like a frontrunner for the cover of Better Boilerrooms & Chophouses or Bucketshop Quarterly." -Uncle Eddie
 

They can "pull the offer" or "terminate you" for whatever reason or no reason at all. They can even fire you on your first day, doesn't matter. Nothing you can do about it.

CompBanker’s Career Guidance Services: https://www.rossettiadvisors.com/
 
CompBanker:
They can "pull the offer" or "terminate you" for whatever reason or no reason at all. They can even fire you on your first day, doesn't matter. Nothing you can do about it.

It depends on the country you are working in. Employment is not "at will" in many jurisdictions with regards to the employer, and in quite a lot of countries a formally extended offer would be legally binding, so it would be against the law to "pull the offer" for no reason.

 

This definitely happened during the downturn. There were very qualified people who were told not to show up on day 1, particularly at some of the big NYC banks. Not much you can do about it though -- you're at the mercy of the market.

CompBanker’s Career Guidance Services: https://www.rossettiadvisors.com/
 

It's highly unlikely unless you do something incredibly stupid or there is an financial exigency for the firm. But yes, it theoretically can happen, and there's nothing you can do about it unless you are an underrepresented minority.

At-will means at-will. However, if they fire you without cause after three months of work, you do get to collect unemployment insurance. Typically your signing bonus contractually vests after a year.

 

re '01-'03, some boutiques did rescind offers in '01 but i don't believe any of the bulge brackets did, at least in significant numbers (possibly for west coast offers given the tech bust - i don't recall). however, some of the banks did begin laying off right out of training or shortly thereafter. the downturn was already obvious for the '02 and '03 recruiting years so those classes were much smaller.

Author of www.IBankingFAQ.com
 

I haven't heard about it happening to anyone i know, but honestly, I constantly wonder about the strength of my offer and whether I'll really have the opportunity to join in July.

 

I think it partially depends on how well your bank, as well as your specific group is doing. A better capitalized bank has a bit of a cushion to ride out the storm with less layoffs, aiming to capture more deals and league table cred when the market finally turns.

Although the downturn was factored into the # of offers given out for the upcoming analyst class, most banks made decisions before the crisis turned into an absolute circus. I think there will be some rescinded offers here and there, but as there is nothing you can do about it, try to enjoy your senior year and hope for the best.

Does anyone have more details on how this was handled during the previous downturn?

 

For instance, you have bachelor degree, studying m.s. and received an offer for 1st tear analyst at bb before m.s. graduation and starting date on summer. But, suddenly, you don't receive m.s. Will they cancek offer, if you tell them about your problems?

 

Swiss Re is not anywhere near the bad positions of bs, leh, merrill, etc. I know friends whose offers were rescinded for BS and LEH, but Swiss Re is not going to fail. And besides that, the new economic reality and their new expectations was probably already factored in by the time they made you the offer last nov.

Plus they are unlikely to axe recent graduates from a newly started "like FIG" division. (e.g. then why start it now?)

I am a betting man, and I would say the chance of your FT offer being rescinded this late is 2-3%.

p.s.- will you work in that easter egg building in london or are you at armonk?

 

Yes banks can rescind offers (see all those poor Bear-turned JPM-but-thrown-elsewhere-not-banking-or-s&t, or Lehman analysts to be).

Is it common? Well if it does happen, it won't be of the same magnitude of 2008.

I do remember reading job cut articles too - but it was for specific groups (like commodities and prop trading) or back office.

 

Here is the article:

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB100014240527487035898045754451312619361…

Hard to say whether they're making a mountain out of a molehill, or if they even know what they're talking about. It's still nerve-wracking though.

My offer is in investment banking, not sales and trading, so hopefully that makes a bit of a positive difference.

 

Congrats on the offer, I am a little envious of your position. But what are you going to do if you don't accept, apply to other places? Even if you do, won't you face the same problems again?

 

You can get fired at any time, but look at it this way: if a bank's looking to cut overhead, firing 1st year analysts is not the efficient way to do it. Contrary to what we all love to believe, analysts and associates are relatively cheap labor. My bank took the sword to the director levels mostly. The only times I saw analysts get laid off were when the group they were working in blew up. Which to be fair did happen a lot, but nobody blamed the analyst for that.

 

I haven't heard personally of anyone I know in b-school getting that call since the summer ended.

However, if I had to speculate I'd say MER offers are worthless and will be called back and maybe some MS offers. GS offers are probably safe since they didn't make them until October (had more information about how bad the market is before they made offers).

For the commercial banks, I'd say BofA people are safe, JPM people are safe, Citi may not be safe but I'd highly doubt they rescind. Wachovia....a buddy still in b-school got a call saying his bonus wouldbe paid at first pay check and he should be on the lookout for another job but he hasn't been officially rescinded yet.

The europeans.... CS and UBS should be fine and won't rescind. The folks are Barclays/LEH will probably be fine as well.

Just my thoughts. Anyone else think differently?

 

Distressed,

I have heard nothing about offers being rescinded; I honestly don't think we will hear about such outside of Wachovia, Merrill, and maybe Citi.

IBnutz,

I agree with some stuff:

I'm pretty sure MER offers will not be honored, and I believe some other people said they had talked to MER senior bankers who felt the same way.

The Euro bank offers are probably safe.

The Wachovia offers, I am fairly certain, are useless as I don't think Wells expressed a serious interest in investment banking.

BofA and JPM: I would imagine are probably safe right now. I still don't understand why BofA recruited and actually hired during fall FT recruiting when there was a MER summer analyst class, but w/e.

Citi: I would be uncomfortable with the firm, but who knows.

I'm not quite sure why you think Morgan Stanley is a possibility though; it had its bout with death, but any particular reason?

 

no particular reason with MS other than a lack of knowledge about their process and I don't know anyone I trust with good insight over there.

i just figured since they were a pure play and they are switching over to bank holding company and they made their offers long before that happened or even before the market took a real turn downward. whereas GS waited (as usual) to make their offers until after the market started tanking.

just a thought... good discussion here.... anyone else have an opinion?

 

I am a first year at a top 10 b-school and none of the 2nd years I know have had their offers pulled. This includes 3 people that interned at Lehman. All three of their offers were honored by Barclays. I did hear about a 1st year post-mba associate that was layed off 3 months after starting.

 

i know ms waited a bit of time before giving out their offers (for analysts, i know nothing about associates), so they probably had a decent idea of what kind of business environment they were looking at. they also severely pared back recruiting for non-summers fall fulltime and didn't even come to campus at my target.

so hopefully they won't be rescinding. but it'll all depend on how bad it gets obviously.

 

i'm thinking MS will probably be fine then if what you're saying is true (which I have no reason to believe it isn't).

I would say those people with offers from MER should be looking for other work after b-school. I know those people think that MER will be in charge of the IB transformation, but the thing is, those people weren't apart of what made MER great prior to the transition so they will probably get axed before starting. Although, I do know one person who is going to MER and that person got their signing bonus in full so thats a good sign for them.

Can anyone else think of a reason why any other bank would rescind MBA offers? I can't. My bank hasn't even laid off any first years yet and they would let us go before jacking with an incoming guy.

 

I would get really excited about your job this summer and offer to cancel your MS to start a year early. This, of course, is assuming that you were accepted in the first place. If you lied about something as big as that on your resume, you are done for. If the school made the offer but pulled it for some non-egregious reason, that makes some mild fudge factor understandable.

 

In my country m.s. takes 2 years.i had problems in the end of year 2, so I will graduate ms next year. It's not MSF, it is just master degree in economics. My offer suggests to start 1st year analyst this summer.

 

Did you lie to them or not? You just screwed up 2nd semester and can't graduate now? If that is the case, you need to go running to HR and explain the situation, so they can hire you on a Bachelor's pay scale. It will be embarassing- and give them an excuse to pull the offer, but it will probably be salvaged if you act now- assuming you didn't lie to them about anything or knew you wouldn't be graduating in advance of your final round interview. They will want to see transcripts and speak with a dean or two.

 

I had to graduate this summer and start full-time further. But I had some promblems at the university and will graduate next summer. So, my question was should I tell the bank about my problems or start working without saying anything?

 

Head-slap. Tell them the truth. Especially if there is a pay differential for your MS. Technically, lying about a graduate degree to get a pay raise constitutes criminal fraud. They may not prosecute you for it, but it is a good way to get fired.

They hired you for your work, not your degree. You need to call HR, explain the situation, say you still want to work for them, but will have to finish your graduate degree part time. 80% chance they'll mull it over for a few days and decide to keep you- just with a pay rate for undergrads rather than guys with MSs. It will be a huge weight off your shoulders; the truth- when you have nothing serious to hide- is healthy and a huge relief.

 

Well, you will have to state, under penalty of perjury for your securities license, that you graduated from that school. So unless you want to perjure yourself- and you will eventually be found out- you need to tell the truth.

Start with your existing HR contact on this- the lady who called or emailed you about your hire. I think you do have to let them know. Downplay downplay downplay, but don't make this look like it was expected. Worst comes to worst, you will spend one more semester at school and line up a job with a different but likely similar firm. 70-80% chance, however, that they allow you to start work and finish your last course part-time.

 

Vel officia deserunt vel dicta iste impedit ut. Et commodi velit deserunt beatae rem.

Molestiae et suscipit qui aliquam ut. Aliquid dolor beatae natus. Quos sed quos dignissimos soluta id omnis. Incidunt placeat quae qui vel cum.

Odio est totam dolore voluptas et qui quod. Dolor distinctio nesciunt dolores nihil sed in dolor. Unde quos nisi consequatur aut rerum. Voluptatem rem et et ullam in voluptate nulla.

 

Beatae aut quo quidem quisquam. Hic reiciendis excepturi dicta veniam nesciunt nisi. Deserunt exercitationem et est totam amet rerum labore. Itaque quod ducimus dolorem autem et. Eaque aut et voluptatem praesentium aut quod. Vel et nihil consequatur nulla dignissimos et omnis non.

Numquam nam doloribus et nihil sed a sit. Aperiam culpa est optio culpa sequi magni aliquam. Molestias omnis dolores ullam laudantium deleniti. Minus voluptates amet fuga. Atque ipsum fuga amet in id dignissimos quo. Eius dicta voluptas officia nam inventore ut.

Career Advancement Opportunities

March 2024 Investment Banking

  • Jefferies & Company 02 99.4%
  • Goldman Sachs 19 98.8%
  • Harris Williams & Co. (++) 98.3%
  • Lazard Freres 02 97.7%
  • JPMorgan Chase 03 97.1%

Overall Employee Satisfaction

March 2024 Investment Banking

  • Harris Williams & Co. 18 99.4%
  • JPMorgan Chase 10 98.8%
  • Lazard Freres 05 98.3%
  • Morgan Stanley 07 97.7%
  • William Blair 03 97.1%

Professional Growth Opportunities

March 2024 Investment Banking

  • Lazard Freres 01 99.4%
  • Jefferies & Company 02 98.8%
  • Goldman Sachs 17 98.3%
  • Moelis & Company 07 97.7%
  • JPMorgan Chase 05 97.1%

Total Avg Compensation

March 2024 Investment Banking

  • Director/MD (5) $648
  • Vice President (19) $385
  • Associates (86) $261
  • 3rd+ Year Analyst (13) $181
  • Intern/Summer Associate (33) $170
  • 2nd Year Analyst (66) $168
  • 1st Year Analyst (202) $159
  • Intern/Summer Analyst (144) $101
notes
16 IB Interviews Notes

“... there’s no excuse to not take advantage of the resources out there available to you. Best value for your $ are the...”

Leaderboard

success
From 10 rejections to 1 dream investment banking internship

“... I believe it was the single biggest reason why I ended up with an offer...”