If your SA internship is canceled, but you get FT offer, will you still recruit for "better" job?

bfd's picture
Rank: Gorilla | 534

If all banks go like PWC and BOA, cancel your SA internships and just give you a preemptive FT offer, would you still try to recruit and get a "better" job come August? Will be a weird situation since you ordinarily would get to see if you like the intern job/people during the summer... but if you just skip right to FT offer, will you still try to recruit in August for other job that you think you might like better?

Comments (55)

Apr 2, 2020

BAML isn't canceling SA internships....

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  • Intern in IB-M&A
Apr 2, 2020

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Apr 2, 2020

whoops, I stand corrected. But still curious what most would do in hypothetical situation.

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Apr 2, 2020

Why the fuck do people still write BAML when BofA took the Merrill Lynch name out of their investment bank? So confusing

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  • Intern in IB - CB
Apr 2, 2020

100% agree with you. BAML is not a thing anymore, that is a fact. You can MS me or him above ^ but as far as I am concerned, BofA pushed out the Merill Lynch brand over a year ago.

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Funniest
  • Intern in IB-M&A
Apr 2, 2020

What a strange thing to be mad over

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  • Intern in IB-M&A
Apr 3, 2020

holy shit it's you again

why are you in EVERY thread talking about baml being supposed to be called bofa now?

suck on bofa deez nuts you loser nerd

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Controversial
  • Prospect in Other
Apr 2, 2020

I'm going to GS/MS/JPM. If my program gets cancelled and I get an "automatic return," I'm 99% sure that I'd sign it on the spot.

At this point, I would only try to lateral for FT in a few scenarios.

  • If my group placement is really, really bad and can't be changed for FT, I would consider attempting a move to a different BB. I originally considered moving to an EB if I got a "bad" group, but I think BBs are simply WAY better equipped to deal with recessions, so that plan is off.
  • I won't know this until late summer, but if the outlook for IB for the next year or two is just truly awful, I would consider recruiting for something more stable (like RX). Everybody will do it, but if that happens, might as well try.

In this hypothetical scenario where everyone gets a return, however, I think there would be a few issues in terms of trying to re-recruit. Spots for laterals will be limited (not to mention that banks won't want to run a hiring process with all of this mess happening), and if your internship program is cancelled, you have no experience and no track record for potential FT employers to consider. I took my SA spot fully intending to sign a return offer if I were to get one, and as long as things don't dramatically change, that statement still stands.

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  • Prospect in Other
Apr 2, 2020

So you say that you want to stay at a BB because it is WAY better equipped to deal with recessions. But then you say if the IB outlook is bad you would want to jump to RX (not BB)....and you say you are headed to a GS/MS/JPM? Just making sure I understand

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  • Analyst 2 in IB - Ind
Apr 3, 2020

lmao this man is going to MS. only bank of those 3 that hasn't heard about placement

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Apr 3, 2020
Analyst 2 in IB - Ind:

lmao this man is going to MS. only bank of those 3 that hasn't heard about placement

Funny in London its the other way around, MS being the only one that knows placement already.

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Apr 2, 2020

I would certainly take the offer. If the market is shit and every bank is giving all SA's offers how many spots do you think are available? I'd guess most banks would be doing 0 or close to 0 FT recruiting.

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Apr 3, 2020

Spot on.

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Apr 2, 2020

There is just no way this happens realistically

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Apr 2, 2020

So let's assume there's no on-site internship for most of these programs... which, to me, appears increasingly likely as things don't seem like they'll get better any time soon... and I would imagine most bankers might be averse to the prospect of getting infected with a deadly disease by an intern...

What would you guess most of these banks would do regarding the intern programs? And do you think might differ between the bigger/80 intern programs vs. smaller boutique programs?

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  • Analyst 1 in IB - Gen
Apr 2, 2020

I think it'll be remote. Although from a learning aspect, the experience may not be as fruitful for both parties, I think the banks will change the criteria in which they evaluate SAs for offers. I think a huge factor will be how the SAs handle working from home and how they communicate. Even in-person, being on top of email and staying communicative is important but now, I think that will be prioritized over how quickly they finish work and such.

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  • Intern in IB - Ind
Apr 2, 2020

Having only done a summer, albeit 2019 being a very good summer/year for investment banking, most of my class got return offers and to be honest I could see big banks doing this because they have to weigh the costs of maybe having 10% too many analysts (which are relatively cheap in the grand scheme of things for a big bank) versus having to run a full recruiting process again. Not saying I think this is what will happen, I just don't think it's as unrealistic as people think. What do I really know though, just my two cents.

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Apr 2, 2020

If it happens its not worth trying to rerecruit. It honestly all depends on if 1 bank is doing this or all banks and who sets the precedent. If one bank does it the rest will probably follow and there will be very few FT lateral positions. If some do and not all theres a chance you could lateral (possibility that they may try to get the people that are working and didn't get their internships canceled) when FT recruiting starts up.

Also we dont know if they even have enough spots. Definitely not all desks will but what if a bank decided to extend FT offers to everyone but give a short exploding deadline or start rescinding FT offers if they dont accept before the other spots fill up.

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  • Intern in IB-M&A
Apr 2, 2020

Another related question - if I planned on recruiting at other banks after the summer should I now expect full-time recruiting to happen sooner in the calendar if offers go out early/I have an expiring offer earlier? Should I start networking with people at other firms now?

  • Intern in IB - Ind
Apr 2, 2020

Yeah, also curious about this

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Apr 2, 2020

I just don't really understand the point of such a thread. If for some reason you get an offer without doing the internship (which hasn't happned yet) you should probably just accept given that we're in a recession and it could get a whole lot worse.

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Apr 2, 2020

To answer your question, some students just might want to explore other options due to current/future state of economy and further research they've done since last fall's acceptance.

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Apr 3, 2020

There's two camps of people. The ones that were going to re-recruit anyways for a FT offer and the ones that now want to shop around and leverage the fact that they can even re-recruit with no a fallback that is still good given that most people's internships + FT jobs are getting cut. The first scenario is more genuine and I definitely do see why one would be concerned about what this thread is pertaining to.

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  • Analyst 1 in IB - Gen
Apr 3, 2020

Just want to highlight that analysts, associates and VPs at my top BB (London) are laughing at these kind of threads of interns dreaming of 100% offer rate without doing an internship.

Yesterday had a broad call and someone talked about this, couldnt be funnier

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  • Intern in S&T - Equities
Apr 3, 2020

Sure

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  • Analyst 1 in IB - Ind
Apr 3, 2020

Can confirm sabe vibe with superiors and co-workers. If anything, SA's will be held to higher standards. There is never a 100% placement rate due to performance. But because of the virus the measure of performance will change and not everyone will get a FT offer.

For those interested in FT recruiting. It does not start until 2 weeks before SA ends because firms know who is not going to get FT offers from the intern pool and they are looking to fill spots. 3 weeks after SA to FT offers from the intern pool go out, the bank will know how many external FT hires they need and recruiting will pick up. I highly reccomend networking during the last 3 weeks of your internship with analysts and other persons at the places you are applying for FT because a lot of FT roles are filled internally and you need someone to stick their neck out for you. Target recruiters also as they have final say on who gets interviewed.

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Apr 3, 2020

By recruiters, do you mean firm's HR people? If not, who are the top recruiters students should contact to help get FT interviews at BBs?

And do you think it's helpful to reach to to analysts/associates before the internship even starts (just to establish a rapport and ask questions)?

  • Analyst 1 in IB - Ind
Apr 3, 2020

Yes I mean HR. Never forget that an analyst to MD can you help push your resume but if HR says fuck this kid you will never get a shot. There is no "top recruiter" for people to reach out to. The same way you have a recruiter for your SA program there is a recruiter for FT programs. You can easily find this person on LinkedIn, message them get them on the phone and talk to them about how you have spoken to analsyts on the team, like the vibe, and want to know more about the process for FT hiring.

I would not reccomend speaking to people before your SA is coming to an end. Reason 1, you are an SA and know nothing except the stuff you learned while preparing to interview and for FT you need to know your shit and be able to talk about what you did over summer with your team. Another reason is that if you call someone and tell them you want to do FT at their firm, how do you answer the why behind that move? You dont know anything about your current company, team, deals, etc and probably just want to move to a BB because of "ExIt OpPs AnD PrIvAtE EqUiTy". If you have that mentality you everyone will see right through you and you will be fucked.

Once you have a good reason as to why you want to move and it is the last 2-3 weeks of your internsuop, make a move. It is a slap in the face for your current employer for you to be so ballsy as to trying to move on day 1. If word gets out or reaches your employer (Dont use company email to network for the love of ggod) that you are trying to network and lateral on company time, you are fucked.

If you are good enough and feel you can take the risk, AFTER you receive an offer to return as FT from your internship, tell your boss or manager you were thinking of doing FT somehwere else and kindly ask for their help. If you were a good intern and have a better reason than "I wAnT tO wOrK aT a Bb" they probably will help you out.

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Apr 3, 2020

I cannot thank you enough for writing out this post. Thank you thank you thank you! Super helpful to me. You're such a beast for this post.

I do ask- won't FT recruiting be more difficult this year, compared to other years due to the virus? Or is it the opposite way around.

I know you said SA's will be held to higher standards.

Would you answer that

Most Helpful
  • Analyst 1 in IB - Ind
Apr 3, 2020

I do not know about the difficulty of FT recruiting for this cycle but am sure there are threads on that topic already.

Pure conjecture on my part about the SA's being held to higher/different standards. It looks very likely to me that a portion of the SA experience will be online. You cannot measure how good an SA is in person the same way you measure how good an online SA is. Whatever metric or way to measure performance for onine SA's is beyond me but it will have an effect on who gets to come back as a FT analyst because conversion is never 100% and there will be people who do not come back. It's just the way it is.

Now, I could be wrong and conversion could be 100%. That being said I think 100% conversion is unlikely and if it were to happen, instead of not receiving a FT offer for the team you did SA with, employers will give you a FT job for a different role/team. Again, this is pure conjecture on my part.

To be honest, focus on finishing the semester, playing video games, having fun, and being a teenager. No one knows what is happening and no one knows what is going to happen. Focus on the things that are within your control and don't spend time and energy on things no one has an answer to. Stop stressing about what could happen and focus on how to actually change where you are in life right now with what you have under your control. Once there is more information available and you can make a rational decision, do whatever you think is best for you as an individual and employee.

There is more to life than being a SA or a FT hire. In the best case scenario you achieved what you wanted to achieve and you are good to go. Worst case scenario, you are shit out of luck and out of a job. It sucks and I have been there before, but the only way to succeed is to accept that there is a possibility of everything being wrong and that failure is likely. However, if you learn to deal with failure, you can learn to always find a solution to whatever ails you.

On another note, I really do not reccomend moving to a BB if your sole rationale is prestige. I made the mistake myself trying to move to an EB for better pay and clout but got called out during the process. It was humiliating and made me feel like trash or as if I was not good enough. It made forced me to do some thinking to reevaluate what was important to me, my family, and those who depend on me and I can tell you that being a big swinging dick in finance is not my priority.

Always act in your best interest but never forget that the only person telling you to go to P.E or I-banking is teenagers on this site with no industry experience who just follow what a lot of these threads say. Don't base your actions and career on the topinions of those who do not matter. Unless you have a real motivation or inclination to work in this industry, find what truly motivates you and sparks passion in your heart. If you want to make money and that is the sole motivator, there are other ways to do it than IBanking and P.E. Don't fall into the trap of being tunnelvisioned into thinking "I.B or bust".

This is just my opinion and what I have learned from experience and having pretty solid mentors that I could be open with. Find a mentor my dude/dudette and never stop learning.

Good luck.

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Apr 3, 2020

Great info., thanks a ton. Very helpful.

Final question: if I turned down SA offer from a firm... but had cordial email correspondence with HR about it... do you think they'll ding me if at end of this summer if I reach out to them and tell them I'd like to try to get an inverview with them for FT?

Thanks!

Apr 7, 2020

Good post! +1

Apr 8, 2020

Just take the fucking job man, people are literally dying from a deadly disease every day.

"They say money can't buy happiness? Look at the fuckin' smile on my face. Ear to ear, baby!" - Boiler Room

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Apr 9, 2020
Comment
  • Intern in IB - Ind
Apr 9, 2020