Breaking in at age 25
Hello folks, I came from a pre med nackground and recently just decided that I sincerely look up to Investment bankers and Managmeent consultants more than surgeons and physicians. I'd like to ask, would you say 25 is too old to break in? I have already had 4 years of pre med college experience and going 4 more years for a finance or econ degree. Can anyone tell me how you would approach this? I dont have any work experience and cant really leverage my background to get to a decent MBA position that would allow me to break into IBD from there. How would you approach this?
I'm confused. You took 8 years in college? Or what?
I think in america in order to do medicine you gotta do a degree for 4 years before going into medicine for post grad, so yeah med students would end up spending 8 years in college. I'm from UK and was looking to med at one stage but changed my mind to finance
no lemme clarify, I'm 21, but have no finance or economics experience and have had about 4 years of a full ride at a non target university. I dont see myself breaking in at this poitn and dont know how.
So why does this post say 25? I'm a little confused my dude. Are you thinking of doing four more years of undergrad? Surely not right?
25 is not too old, I started my first year at 27
MBA is the most conceivable path, personally I jumped around various financial firms/companies until I was able to leverage that into an offer.
Not IBD, not BB, but good pay and not 80+ hours. Overall pretty satisfied with the group and work as well
to clarify you broke in at IBD at 27 from leveraging non IBD or BB roles?
You’re 21 so you’re in your 4th year of college? I wouldn’t do an additional 4 years for a finance degree.
What is your major, and are you doing any type of internship or work right now? Pre med is not a bad major. It’s a hard degree and if you can get your story straight on why pre med -> finance, and learn some finance technicals, I’m sure a boutique would give you a chance, and you’d be a catch for healthcare coverage groups. From there lateral to a BB or go MBA.
I've heard that a lot, and far too often, can you tell me about specific boutiques? I've been very curious and also dont really find many in the way of boutique healthcare ones....I heard G.S. is welcome and dont really know how to network into said boutiques given that they dont recruit on my campus (hence my need to transfer to a recruiting school)
I’m not a healthcare person so can’t give you any names but but you should do some research into deals. Look for the non-GS companies that show up as secondary advisors and/or those that complete smaller deals. Get to know the space, you have the educational background now figure out where IB fits in with transactions.
Being in NYC networking is easy enough as you can meet people for coffee. Email alumni from your school or people with some sort of connection/similarity to you (fellow pre-med majors?) do a search on WSO for better threads on how to network.
From your post I would get your are from the UK. I have seen people just do a solid master in finance and break into IB especially in HC focused practices.
No, i'm from NYC.
Oh ok sorry, you'll get better advice from the other users than. Good luck
Clarifying for OP from his scattered responses, since his initial post is awful:
OP is 21 years old and 3 years into a pre-med major/path
OP attends a non-target on a full ride
OP is (I think) wondering if he should do a second 4-year degree in finance or econ, which would have him graduating at 25.
OP, I appreciate the creativity but definitely don't do this. Study finance on the side, look towards the CFA, and recruit for healthcare divisions and banks. I know multiple healthcare bankers who come from a science background like yourself.
Another option is to join a pharma company or similar and try then to pivot towards financey roles.
You've dismissed the MBA but that's another good option. Congrats on the full ride.
can you provide me with more options on Healthcare IBD Boutique banks? I can look around, but I imagine you would be able to give me more in depth answers. Thanks! Nathan.
Why do you look up to bankers and management consultants more than surgeons?
I'm surprised no one has mentioned a Masters program!!! Clearly what the OP needs...
YES for the love of christ, I was looking at a Masters in Finance, but I cant find a good one that would open up good job opportunities for me.
What’s your GPA?
nothing to write home about 3.5 (pre med is a bit rough, especially with the other requirements)
Little low but not impossible for banking coming from a non target. If I was interviewing you, I would also assume you couldn’t hack some of the tougher pre med courses and decided to suddenly be a banking fan. Def tough to get into a MD program with that
PM me I broke in at 25.
In your situation I’d take CFA / modeling classes. If that doesn’t work consider an MSF. Most are 1 year programs.
As someone who figured out his senior year that I wanted to go into banking, you can definitely make the switch. I too was premed and decided to tack on a finance degree to my biology degree. It took me an extra 3 semesters but I came out with two degrees. No one has really asked about when I started college and it hasn't been a hindrance when finding job opportunities.
Thanks! May I pm you questions? Like name of your university and other details such as how you found internships and etc?
Yes man of course, shoot me a PM
Also, business classes should be a little easier, which would help you bring up your GPA.
hello, well age 25 sounds okay. And with a finance/econom. degree - where are you from? A friend of mine also started at a similar age, but well he (like me) lives in Austria and did after a language study one in Business Economics. If you really want, you can achieve everything - maybe start with gaining work experience? (internships ...)
Career Change @ 25? (Originally Posted: 06/27/2013)
Hello everyone - long time reader, first time poster/new member.
Long story short, I'm 25, and have been working as a tax CPA in the HF/PE & HNW individual space for about 2.5 years now. I've recently made a transition away from public accounting to work in a large family office under what was sold to me as an opportunity to get more involved on the investing side (guesses on how that turned out).
I'm passionate about public market investing, manage sizable portfolios for my wealthy parents, am taking the CFA exam, and don't see myself doing tax work for the next 40 years. If I spend the next year and half working/finishing my exams, is it too late for me to make a change to an analyst role at a HF or ER? How best can I prepare myself (beyond networking, etc)? Am I thinking about this all wrong?
Other info...I went to a top ranked business school, have my Master's (albeit in taxation), good grades, Big 4/Metro Market background (hours).
All replies/rips appreciated.
Welcome to WSO! It's not too late especially if you have your masters already. CFA is a good step to take in your situation. Combo of CPA and CFA would set you up well for HFs.
Thanks for the response! I enjoyed working on the HFs from a tax standpoint.
I made a career change at 30, so you're light years ahead of me. Just make sure you have a good story as to why you are making the change - you will be asked this a LOT.
Most important: believe little to none of what the naysayers will tell you. It'll be a grind, but if you want to make it happen, it will.
Thanks for the reply - any insights into what skill sets I should look to improve, that I wouldn't get in my current role? (modeling, etc)
Hey, just came across this thread...hope my input is still relevant. I'm a former tax accountant like yourself...I found that making the switch was tough without getting an MBA. A CFA might do the trick, but not nearly as easily as with an MBA, based on all the feedback I received about changing careers (which you are trying to do). If school is not an option, I'd say to pursue the CFA, and pursue a MM sell-side shop...and try to move over to a BB after a couple of years. Those places have turnover (not tons like in IB, but have enough to clear space for someone in MM to move up) and you could re-brand yourself that way. After a couple of years there, you could try to jump to the buy side. Not an easy jump, or an easy path, but very doable.
Going straight to the buy side is also a possibility but given the career change, you're going to have trouble getting anywhere with any sort of name recognition (if that's your goal). You obviously have investing ideas so put them together into one-page write ups and send your best one or two ideas to places you're inetersted in. Even if they don't land you interviews, they'll help you sharpen the process of identifying the key points to your thesis and key drivers/valuation.
Just my 2 cents.
I'm 25 and want to break in to IBD. What do I do? (Originally Posted: 01/09/2014)
I just graduated this past semester with a degree in a non-target in Biology/Chemistry, and I'm 25. I'd like to work in IBD. At this point sticking with work in my major is not an option (The pay is garbage), and I'm unwilling to do even more studies in a major I don't like. More things to note: GPA is CFA Lvl 1 while I network my way in? Obviously due to my major I'm going to be spending the bulk of my time looking up Healthcare IBs.
I'm trying to get ideas, because at this point I honestly don't have a lot of time to work with.
CFA+Network with senior people via a local Finance-oriented trade group.
Also, seek out alumni.
I normally don't tell people this, but since you have absolutely no finance background, CFA level 1 might not be the worst idea in the world. It will help you not sound like an idiot in interviews and might help a bit with that poor GPA.
Starting with healthcare boutiques is probably a good way to go. There some real nichey biotech/med device banks, if you think you have the chops for that kind of stuff.
Meh, are people seriously suggesting that this guy spends a couple hundred hours preparing for the CFA (maybe more since he's a non-business background) to get a certification that very few bankers actually care about? Sure, it'll show dedication. But even at your current salary and personal view of self-worth, is spending hundreds of hours and hundreds of dollars worth a tiny (pretty much zero) chance at an IB position?
Better game plan - prepare for GMAT (less prep, more innate skill). If you do well on it, try to find some big corporation to work at (even if the pay is shit) and apply for MBA when you're 27.
Self worth? I'm being a realist. I'm trying to figure out how to ADD value to my resume.
And a MBA? Great, but not so great idea:
Even if I kill it on the GMAT (It's possible), I'm still looking at having a toilet GPA at a nontarget, and little work experience, even with 2 years of corporate work. Compared to the typical target school applicant, my application might as well be toilet paper for the adcom, and my application fee will be their lunch money.
And MBA at a nontarget? I'll be back at square one, but with a MBA and down nearly $150 large. I'm honestly not seeing an advantage with getting an MBA, especially if it's from a nontarget.
Haha you think investment banks will appreciate your resume more than b-school adcoms will? I'm just trying to save you time bro. Take the GMAT - if you get a 740 or higher, you can go into the process as a splitter. Since you're old, they'll value GMAT over GPA. Some big corp experience and you're set to apply to a top 20 MBA program. If you don't get the gmat score, you may as well scrap these aspirations and consider a different path, and you'll have found this out at a much lower cost.
But by all means, waste hundreds of hours with the CFA. I've never seen anyone with your credentials squeeze into IB, CFA or not (exception was an ex-military guy). The route I'm promoting has actually worked previously - but who knows, I'd love to see you pioneer your own path and prove me wrong.
Where the fuck is he going to get some "big corp experience" with the existing resume? Chances are about as likely as landing a boutique IB gig.
As for the "hundreds of hours" of studying on the CFA...it can be done in a 2-3 months while working full time. He needs to learn 50% of the material anyways to work in finance. Seems like he could kill 2 birds with 1 stone.
Alternative to CFA is training yourself on BIWS (Breaking into Wallstreet) or other financial modeling courses. So that you can write on your resume that you're willing to put in the personal time to know the ins and outs of banking.
You can try (as others have mentioned) to seek out alumni in banking. Do a LinkedIn search. If you're from a non-target school, you might get some understandable sympathy from bankers from the same school - who know how hard it is to break into the field.
For the MBA... the thing is, these schools look for diversity. So yes, while they really like MBB/top tier consultants, and people from the cream of the crop finance firms, they won't take a class just full of them. They do like having people from a varied of backgrounds. And you coming from a bio/chem background could be interesting. It all falls on the QUALITY of your corporate experience. So if you can demonstrate leadership or high performance in your corporate role, then it's something that could work.
People have gotten in with shit gpa. You just need to be able to study hard for the GMAT and use that to counter the gpa issue. Another thing that bschools have suggested is taking extra extension courses in maths/finance/accounting/etc so that you can show that you're capable.
In addition to looking at boutiques (maybe ones that are healthcare centric like Cain Brothers or Leerink - though you should cast a wider net), also consider alternatives, like working in a corporate finance role or a Big 4 where you can build a similar set of experiences. That said, those places will also be tough to crack, but my point is, to cast a wide net and be open to looking at opportunities that will give you great experience.
I think the advice by TraderDaily and Kanon looks solid. Build on that, @staceyu
All the best!
OP, first off, CFA won't do shit for your resume at this point. Having done interviews for a long time now, CFA I adds nothing to a candidates resume, and certainly not enough to secure an offer. As someone above suggest, of you're going to prep for interviews, go learn basic accounting, Rosenbaum's book and look at technical guides. An interviewer won't give a shit about a CFA if you can't tell him what a DCF is and actually understand the mechanics of it. Further, CFA I is very common.
Start studying for GMATs and figure out how to best position yourself for MBA. Even if by an act of god you got into a boutique, you're still bound to a mediocre resume at beat. And if you ever decide you want to uptier to a MM/BB/elite boutique, you'll have to go back and get your MBA. Except at that time, you'll be older, haven't studied for your GMATs, and now pooled with the rest if the finance/business candidates and at a much worse position coming from a boutique. At least if you do well on GMATs, and either apply now, continue research then apply, or find an industry job then apply, you're much more differentiated. MBA will give you a chance to reset your resume. I know guys that went to non targets with science backgrounds, got into an top MBA and no one cares about undergrad at that point. Also keep on mind if you're interested in HC IB, well banks will definitely give you looks given your science background once you're in a decent MBA.
edit: apologies for the horrible spelling/grammar - was on my iphone and far too lazy to correct the mistakes.
This is why I love WSO.
Two people who work in the field fighting each other to HELP give advice someone who's in a pretty bad position. You guys are top class and you don't pull any punches. You guys are great.
To the OP, why not hedge your bets and do both. Recruit at a corporate finance place and study for the GMAT at the same time. If you get into a good MBA program go if not go get a job and work your way up. Seize the day. Do anything it takes. I wish you the best of luck.
Sav is a BB worker? That's not much of a surprise. As much as I can LEARN something, how do I put it on paper on my resume? That's the main problem
I think you should aim for corporate, not IB. It would be a much, much better use of your time at this point, and at least you would have a real shot at getting in at a healthcare company unlike at an Ibank. Best of luck.
If you really want to do IBD you've got to bet on yourself and bet big. It's a risk, but if you really want it and you're willing to bet on yourself do/do not do the following.
MBA for sure. CFA won't do shit except waste time. Kill it on the GMAT, start volunteering ASAP, hire an admissions consultant, and you'll have a chance at a top 20. From there just fall into IBD. I think thats honestly going to be the easiest path.
@bepbep12 Do you really think an MSF is a good idea? Those programs don't place that well into IBD and he would be most likely starting as an analyst. Being a 26-27 year old analyst would suck especially if he had to go back to bschool to move up.
I wouldn't recommend it if I didn't do it myself...
Why not try doing further schooling in a less competitive environment, such as Australia or ahem, Canada? Another option, a more realistic one, is to find a good job in chemistry/biology and work up from there. Everyone has to pay their dues.
Sounds like you have a tough road ahead, best of luck
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