Breaking in at age 25

Hello folks, I came from a pre med nackground and recently just decided that I sincerely look up to Investment bankers and Managmeent consultants more than surgeons and physicians. I'd like to ask, would you say 25 is too old to break in? I have already had 4 years of pre med college experience and going 4 more years for a finance or econ degree. Can anyone tell me how you would approach this? I dont have any work experience and cant really leverage my background to get to a decent MBA position that would allow me to break into IBD from there. How would you approach this?

 

You’re 21 so you’re in your 4th year of college? I wouldn’t do an additional 4 years for a finance degree.

What is your major, and are you doing any type of internship or work right now? Pre med is not a bad major. It’s a hard degree and if you can get your story straight on why pre med -> finance, and learn some finance technicals, I’m sure a boutique would give you a chance, and you’d be a catch for healthcare coverage groups. From there lateral to a BB or go MBA.

Array
 

I've heard that a lot, and far too often, can you tell me about specific boutiques? I've been very curious and also dont really find many in the way of boutique healthcare ones....I heard G.S. is welcome and dont really know how to network into said boutiques given that they dont recruit on my campus (hence my need to transfer to a recruiting school)

 

I’m not a healthcare person so can’t give you any names but but you should do some research into deals. Look for the non-GS companies that show up as secondary advisors and/or those that complete smaller deals. Get to know the space, you have the educational background now figure out where IB fits in with transactions.

Being in NYC networking is easy enough as you can meet people for coffee. Email alumni from your school or people with some sort of connection/similarity to you (fellow pre-med majors?) do a search on WSO for better threads on how to network.

Array
 

Clarifying for OP from his scattered responses, since his initial post is awful:

  • OP is 21 years old and 3 years into a pre-med major/path

  • OP attends a non-target on a full ride

  • OP is (I think) wondering if he should do a second 4-year degree in finance or econ, which would have him graduating at 25.

OP, I appreciate the creativity but definitely don't do this. Study finance on the side, look towards the CFA, and recruit for healthcare divisions and banks. I know multiple healthcare bankers who come from a science background like yourself.

Another option is to join a pharma company or similar and try then to pivot towards financey roles.

You've dismissed the MBA but that's another good option. Congrats on the full ride.

 

As someone who figured out his senior year that I wanted to go into banking, you can definitely make the switch. I too was premed and decided to tack on a finance degree to my biology degree. It took me an extra 3 semesters but I came out with two degrees. No one has really asked about when I started college and it hasn't been a hindrance when finding job opportunities.

 

hello, well age 25 sounds okay. And with a finance/econom. degree - where are you from? A friend of mine also started at a similar age, but well he (like me) lives in Austria and did after a language study one in Business Economics. If you really want, you can achieve everything - maybe start with gaining work experience? (internships ...)

 

I made a career change at 30, so you're light years ahead of me. Just make sure you have a good story as to why you are making the change - you will be asked this a LOT.

Most important: believe little to none of what the naysayers will tell you. It'll be a grind, but if you want to make it happen, it will.

 

Hey, just came across this thread...hope my input is still relevant. I'm a former tax accountant like yourself...I found that making the switch was tough without getting an MBA. A CFA might do the trick, but not nearly as easily as with an MBA, based on all the feedback I received about changing careers (which you are trying to do). If school is not an option, I'd say to pursue the CFA, and pursue a MM sell-side shop...and try to move over to a BB after a couple of years. Those places have turnover (not tons like in IB, but have enough to clear space for someone in MM to move up) and you could re-brand yourself that way. After a couple of years there, you could try to jump to the buy side. Not an easy jump, or an easy path, but very doable.

Going straight to the buy side is also a possibility but given the career change, you're going to have trouble getting anywhere with any sort of name recognition (if that's your goal). You obviously have investing ideas so put them together into one-page write ups and send your best one or two ideas to places you're inetersted in. Even if they don't land you interviews, they'll help you sharpen the process of identifying the key points to your thesis and key drivers/valuation.

Just my 2 cents.

 

I normally don't tell people this, but since you have absolutely no finance background, CFA level 1 might not be the worst idea in the world. It will help you not sound like an idiot in interviews and might help a bit with that poor GPA.

Starting with healthcare boutiques is probably a good way to go. There some real nichey biotech/med device banks, if you think you have the chops for that kind of stuff.

"For I am a sinner in the hands of an angry God. Bloody Mary full of vodka, blessed are you among cocktails. Pray for me now and at the hour of my death, which I hope is soon. Amen."
 

Meh, are people seriously suggesting that this guy spends a couple hundred hours preparing for the CFA (maybe more since he's a non-business background) to get a certification that very few bankers actually care about? Sure, it'll show dedication. But even at your current salary and personal view of self-worth, is spending hundreds of hours and hundreds of dollars worth a tiny (pretty much zero) chance at an IB position?

Better game plan - prepare for GMAT (less prep, more innate skill). If you do well on it, try to find some big corporation to work at (even if the pay is shit) and apply for MBA when you're 27.

 

Self worth? I'm being a realist. I'm trying to figure out how to ADD value to my resume.

And a MBA? Great, but not so great idea:

Even if I kill it on the GMAT (It's possible), I'm still looking at having a toilet GPA at a nontarget, and little work experience, even with 2 years of corporate work. Compared to the typical target school applicant, my application might as well be toilet paper for the adcom, and my application fee will be their lunch money.

And MBA at a nontarget? I'll be back at square one, but with a MBA and down nearly $150 large. I'm honestly not seeing an advantage with getting an MBA, especially if it's from a nontarget.

 

Haha you think investment banks will appreciate your resume more than b-school adcoms will? I'm just trying to save you time bro. Take the GMAT - if you get a 740 or higher, you can go into the process as a splitter. Since you're old, they'll value GMAT over GPA. Some big corp experience and you're set to apply to a top 20 MBA program. If you don't get the gmat score, you may as well scrap these aspirations and consider a different path, and you'll have found this out at a much lower cost.

But by all means, waste hundreds of hours with the CFA. I've never seen anyone with your credentials squeeze into IB, CFA or not (exception was an ex-military guy). The route I'm promoting has actually worked previously - but who knows, I'd love to see you pioneer your own path and prove me wrong.

 
Sav:

Haha you think investment banks will appreciate your resume more than b-school adcoms will? I'm just trying to save you time bro. Take the GMAT - if you get a 740 or higher, you can go into the process as a splitter. Since you're old, they'll value GMAT over GPA. Some big corp experience and you're set to apply to a top 20 MBA program. If you don't get the gmat score, you may as well scrap these aspirations and consider a different path, and you'll have found this out at a much lower cost.

But by all means, waste hundreds of hours with the CFA. I've never seen anyone with your credentials squeeze into IB, CFA or not (exception was an ex-military guy). The route I'm promoting has actually worked previously - but who knows, I'd love to see you pioneer your own path and prove me wrong.

Where the fuck is he going to get some "big corp experience" with the existing resume? Chances are about as likely as landing a boutique IB gig.

As for the "hundreds of hours" of studying on the CFA...it can be done in a 2-3 months while working full time. He needs to learn 50% of the material anyways to work in finance. Seems like he could kill 2 birds with 1 stone.

"For I am a sinner in the hands of an angry God. Bloody Mary full of vodka, blessed are you among cocktails. Pray for me now and at the hour of my death, which I hope is soon. Amen."
 
Most Helpful

Alternative to CFA is training yourself on BIWS (Breaking into Wallstreet) or other financial modeling courses. So that you can write on your resume that you're willing to put in the personal time to know the ins and outs of banking.

You can try (as others have mentioned) to seek out alumni in banking. Do a LinkedIn search. If you're from a non-target school, you might get some understandable sympathy from bankers from the same school - who know how hard it is to break into the field.

For the MBA... the thing is, these schools look for diversity. So yes, while they really like MBB/top tier consultants, and people from the cream of the crop finance firms, they won't take a class just full of them. They do like having people from a varied of backgrounds. And you coming from a bio/chem background could be interesting. It all falls on the QUALITY of your corporate experience. So if you can demonstrate leadership or high performance in your corporate role, then it's something that could work.

People have gotten in with shit gpa. You just need to be able to study hard for the GMAT and use that to counter the gpa issue. Another thing that bschools have suggested is taking extra extension courses in maths/finance/accounting/etc so that you can show that you're capable.

In addition to looking at boutiques (maybe ones that are healthcare centric like Cain Brothers or Leerink - though you should cast a wider net), also consider alternatives, like working in a corporate finance role or a Big 4 where you can build a similar set of experiences. That said, those places will also be tough to crack, but my point is, to cast a wide net and be open to looking at opportunities that will give you great experience.

 

OP, first off, CFA won't do shit for your resume at this point. Having done interviews for a long time now, CFA I adds nothing to a candidates resume, and certainly not enough to secure an offer. As someone above suggest, of you're going to prep for interviews, go learn basic accounting, Rosenbaum's book and look at technical guides. An interviewer won't give a shit about a CFA if you can't tell him what a DCF is and actually understand the mechanics of it. Further, CFA I is very common.

Start studying for GMATs and figure out how to best position yourself for MBA. Even if by an act of god you got into a boutique, you're still bound to a mediocre resume at beat. And if you ever decide you want to uptier to a MM/BB/elite boutique, you'll have to go back and get your MBA. Except at that time, you'll be older, haven't studied for your GMATs, and now pooled with the rest if the finance/business candidates and at a much worse position coming from a boutique. At least if you do well on GMATs, and either apply now, continue research then apply, or find an industry job then apply, you're much more differentiated. MBA will give you a chance to reset your resume. I know guys that went to non targets with science backgrounds, got into an top MBA and no one cares about undergrad at that point. Also keep on mind if you're interested in HC IB, well banks will definitely give you looks given your science background once you're in a decent MBA.

edit: apologies for the horrible spelling/grammar - was on my iphone and far too lazy to correct the mistakes.

 

This is why I love WSO.

Two people who work in the field fighting each other to HELP give advice someone who's in a pretty bad position. You guys are top class and you don't pull any punches. You guys are great.

To the OP, why not hedge your bets and do both. Recruit at a corporate finance place and study for the GMAT at the same time. If you get into a good MBA program go if not go get a job and work your way up. Seize the day. Do anything it takes. I wish you the best of luck.

 

I think you should aim for corporate, not IB. It would be a much, much better use of your time at this point, and at least you would have a real shot at getting in at a healthcare company unlike at an Ibank. Best of luck.

 

If you really want to do IBD you've got to bet on yourself and bet big. It's a risk, but if you really want it and you're willing to bet on yourself do/do not do the following.

  1. Figure out if you really want this
  2. Don't do the fucking CFA for IBD
  3. Get your ass into an MSF/MMS/MiM/MS in Commerce
  4. Borrow so you can leave your job
  5. Get an internship once you've been accepted / before then
  6. Get off the internet and meet the people you need to, pitch them and get the interviews
  7. Kill your MSF
  8. Interview and get the job
'Before you enter... be willing to pay the price'
 

MBA for sure. CFA won't do shit except waste time. Kill it on the GMAT, start volunteering ASAP, hire an admissions consultant, and you'll have a chance at a top 20. From there just fall into IBD. I think thats honestly going to be the easiest path.

@bepbep12 Do you really think an MSF is a good idea? Those programs don't place that well into IBD and he would be most likely starting as an analyst. Being a 26-27 year old analyst would suck especially if he had to go back to bschool to move up.

 
mrharveyspecter:

MBA for sure. CFA won't do shit except waste time. Kill it on the GMAT, start volunteering ASAP, hire an admissions consultant, and you'll have a chance at a top 20. From there just fall into IBD. I think thats honestly going to be the easiest path.

@BepBep12 Do you really think an MSF is a good idea? Those programs don't place that well into IBD and he would be most likely starting as an analyst. Being a 26-27 year old analyst would suck especially if he had to go back to bschool to move up.

I wouldn't recommend it if I didn't do it myself...

'Before you enter... be willing to pay the price'
 

Why not try doing further schooling in a less competitive environment, such as Australia or ahem, Canada? Another option, a more realistic one, is to find a good job in chemistry/biology and work up from there. Everyone has to pay their dues.

Peter
 

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