Can international students get hired?
Hey guys...so I'm an international student and I'm in my senior year of college (non-target school). I have done one IB internship so far, and I'm just about to start another. However, I know that sponsorships are really hard to get, and my mentor (who's the manager of the company where I do my second internship) told me that Citibank IBD does not give any sponsorships (he's busy so we didn't talk more about this on the phone; he had to go). So, being an international student who's not a citizen, either do I have a green card, can I really get hired by BBs or elite boutiques?? Thank you in advance for your explanations.
PS: if you are a supremacist, please don't answer this question, thank you.
bump :)
He's wrong about Citi. All the big banks sponsor, however, there is no doubt that you have more of an uphill climb as an international student. It's a bit of a gamble for them as winning the Visa lottery is never guaranteed and if they lose it, they lose that spot and the group/bank is out a resource. So with that, they tend to offer less internationals than they may otherwise (because you have to be "better" as an international) because of the risk associated with it. It's even tougher at EBs, but many of them do sponsor.
Thank you so much for your explanation. Yes I know that being an international student I need to be better, in order to be considered. I feel much better now after reading what you said.. may I ask another question? My mentor just emailed me this morning and what he said was basically like "I can't turn you into a 3.9 junior at Wharton; try for IBD when you are in a top business program." Since I'm graduating this June/July, can I apply for summer analyst positions this Fall? Or do I have to wait for opportunities when I'm in a graduate school/business school program? Thanks a lot !
You won't be able to apply for summer analyst programs this fall (if I'm reading this correctly, you're asking if you could apply for 2018 summer analyst programs). Those classes will be primarily people graduating in 2019, along with a few 2018 grads that are doing MSF programs - they would not look at someone who finished their undergrad in 2017.
You will likely need to wait until you're in grad school or get a job outside of banking and try to lateral into an analyst program (I have seen some people do this from capital markets or consulting jobs).
I don't know if your mentor works at Citi or not, but he is definitely wrong about the sponsorship part. The bank does sponsor international students, as I have seen it happen this year as well as the past few years. I think it may vary according to what school you're in, as MS specifically doesn't sponsor in my school, despite the fact that my school is a target school. That being said, you're right in that it is an uphill battle for F-1 kids, as the banks must place a lot of faith in you to bet on that 30-40% H1b lottery chance (does get better if you are on STEM extension but don't think banks really care to look that deeply). You will essentially have to be on the top of the list to get that few sponsorship spots allocated to the year's class, and considering the already competitive nature of the IBD recruiting process, its no easy job.
Thank you so much for your explanation. This is truly helpful. Yes I understand the difficulty of what I want to do, but I'll just try to break in in the future, when I'm in the grad school. Meanwhile I will try to get as much experience as I can. Thanks again
Feeling helpless as an international student trying to get into sales and trading (Originally Posted: 12/11/2015)
Hi everyone, I am an international student studying STEM at a university in NYC. I tried to make it into sales and trading but without success.
After interviewing with 4 BB banks in previous two months, I felt sad that I never made it to the second round. I don't know what I can do now and I am pessimistic about my future. I really like the markets and I think sales and trading is the place where I want to go, but I don't know how to leverage my background and convince the recruiters that I can do this job better than other kids.
Anyone with a similar background has some suggestions for me? I am so desperate to hear any insight about getting into sales and trading now.
bump
If you're getting the interviews and then getting rejected, it's probably not your background and more likely either your level of knowledge or persona that's causing them to say no.
I don't know. Maybe you are right, but they will never give you feedback in terms of how you can improve yourself for it. The weird thing is that I know people who have similar background get SA offers last year, and I believe I can do as well as they do.
Regarding the level of knowledge, what do you expect from a junior student applying for an SA program? I follow the macroeconomics and markets everyday and had a finance internship last summer. I don't know what I can do to make step further.
As for persona, I was being humble and nice during the internship. Nevertheless, I know there are tons of mean and judgmental people working on the streets. And I don't think it is fair to reject one's application because you "think his persona" doesn't fit well. You never know until you try it. If BBs only reserve the positions for "people with certain persona", then they are too narrowly minded and it sucks.
Some of my favorites:
This has got to be a troll. Try not to catch VD from a mean and judgemental street worker buddy.
Very rarely will you get feedback in an interview situation. Even if you did, you can probably file it under a BS answer. What you have to know is that if a company uses its time on you, whether that's a phone call, an OCR interview, an onsite superday, they are actively considering you as a candidate. Note that this isn't like a proficiency test or recorded video interview where it takes no effort on their behalf - if they're spending energy on you, you're in consideration.
I can't tell you what they expect and even if I could, it doesn't matter if you meet all the prerequisites and the interviewer doesn't like you. Here's the harsh reality: not all the standards are the same and you will see people less qualified than you and on your level get the slot over you. When I applied to S&T positions, I didn't even get first round interviews with many banks, while my friends at target schools and under diversity programs got offers in October with completely behavioral rounds, but couldn't tell you the difference between equities and fixed income. So if you think it was helpless for you, know that many people don't even get the shot that you get. That's life and if this is the game you want to play, these are the rules you have to accept.
If your persona doesn't fit, you're getting rejected. Is that fair? That's debatable. But why would you hire the guy who you didn't like over the one you did... even if the unlikeable guy was more knowledgeable? Anyone can increase their knowledge level, but it's damn near impossible (and very fake) to change your personality.
BBs are narrow minded. You should know this. You got the interview because you're in NYC and/or go to a target school. You think Joe McScrub, finance major at the University of Wyoming is interviewing with MS IED? If this really bothers you, there are other industries such as tech or quant trading where the playing field is more level. But even then, you need to 1) get along with them and 2) still go to a strong school and study a particular major. Even the most "meritocratic" industries have levels of subjectivity.
Moral of the story: finance/recruiting/life is unfair, and you can either make peace with it and stay, leave, or let it torment you forever.
Thank you for your reply, Lebron. It's very insightful and I do agree with lots of your points. I know that they spend energy on me and I appreciate that. I know the director or vice president or associate who interviewed me can make several hundred or thousand dollars per hour, and it really means something for them to take time to review my candidacy. I also know that the "persona" thing can be kind of tricky. However, if I don't try and I give up because the interviewers don't like me, then I think people who have similar personality as I do may never get a chance to make it into sales and trading, for they will be forever underrepresented in the industry. Therefore, I will keep trying hard to get into it, and if I succeed and become a recruiter several years later, I will give a hand to the kids who have similar personalities as I do.
From your description I know that you are a knowledgable guy in the industries, and I feel sorry to know that the BBs spend time moving with other less talented people's applications. I do think some BB banks are narrow minded though in their firm-wide presentation sessions they always claim the opposite. I think it's crazy for them to recruit someone who does not know the difference between equities and fixed income. And a reason while I think I deserve an SA offer is that I can alway provide them with something about the markets if I am asked to, such as oil price, debt market, equities and stocks, currencies, etc.
I guess what I can do now is to keep applying for other banks, and to see if I have chances to get an offer in other regional offices of the major BBs. I know quant can be a good option but I don't want to pursue a master degree for it now. I want to try something new after my undergraduate studies and I think quant prefers candidates from MFE program or even PHD students.
Btw, sometimes I think the Dodd-frank act is a piece of shit. It not only cuts the revenues of the BBs, but it also cuts the positions for many kids who are so passionate about finance.
If it's something you want, don't give up. That's rule #1.
But, there's a reason why a certain personality type is underrepresented. I don't know what kind of person you are. But just as I can say it takes a specific type of person to be a used car salesman, S&T is no different. You may find it's not for you when you get there. And the last sentence in your first paragraph sums it up - people like and help those who are similar to them. Make an effort to connect with your interviewer.
Never drink the kool-aid. Of course the BBs will say they're focused on diversity and want "sharp individuals with a passion for the markets and the ability to work under pressure". What are they going to say: "We like to hire kids from HYP and if you're a underrepresented minority, but not Indian or Asian, we'll check you out too"?
You can be the sharpest tool in the shed but you also have to know how the game is being played. Also, don't overestimate the industry knowledge thing, anyone can regurgitate stats or headlines. I promise you if a trader wants to know the price of Tesla, he isn't going to ask the intern, he can just search Bloomberg in half the time (which you'd have to do anyways). You aren't trading or selling to clients in an S&T intern slot. It's just a glorified shadowing position, so you can assume your fit with the interviewers is more important than your knowledge. They just talk with you about the markets to make sure you didn't just randomly click "submit application".
Apply everywhere. This should be a given, beggars can't be choosers. And if you really like trading, look into quant/prop trading. The shops I've interacted with have great cultures, are laid back but are also very sharp and hardworking. Quant trading doesn't mean quant at a bank, undergrad STEM kids are actively recruited by the firms for entry-level trading/developer roles.
4 interviews? lols
IB Recruiting for International Students from Non-Target Schools (Originally Posted: 09/20/2017)
Any other international kids from non-target struggling to even get a first round for IB? :( 3.98 GPA, Sophomore Finance Internship in Acquisition Finance, huge network
Yep, it's been very tough for us internationals this year. 3.9 GPA, sophmore IBD internship, a few first rounds and 1 superday but no offers. Are you considering doing London recruiting?
Firms that accept international students (Originally Posted: 08/27/2015)
.
I'm curious about this as well. I'm a US citizen but I got my MBA overseas.
interested as well.
IMS Health and Opera Solutions hire internationals too
Where to find internships as international student? (Originally Posted: 02/05/2018)
Hi guys,
I'm a newly arrived master student in my first year of study and I want to know which forums the US employers in the finance industry usually post their internship opportunities? Is there an integrated forum specializing posting internship information?
Thank you so much in advance!
I'm an international student myself and have had summer internships, and am in the process of another intern search right now for summer '18. The search process is exactly the same as anybody else with the exception at a certain point you are going to tell the company of your status. If you already have a SSN then there will be no additional paperwork. If you dont have a SSN yet then I HIGHLY advice you to get a part time job on campus because they will be much more sympathetic with helping you get your SSN.
Not to say that the company offering you the internship won't (it's not a super difficult process, they just have to write a letter/fill out a form), but I have lost internships because they weren't willing to go through the process.
TL:DR Get a SSN from a campus job and then apply anywhere you want for internships, no questions asked.
Hi Ricky,
Thank you very much for your advice. Apart from the career office from school, what other resources do you often use during the internship searching? Many thanks!
With the current climate it's hard to even get internships when you're not a citizen/have a green card. If you go to an average school and apply online, it's 200% chance that you won't hear back. The best way is to find companies that you're interested in working for and cold email the team members and go from there.
Thank you! I'll try from that!
Employment for International Students (Originally Posted: 04/22/2011)
Is it better now than say 2 years ago? Will it be improved in the foreseeable future? I know there are still H1B caps but have they been increasing?
Is there much opportunity for summer internships, or are they rarer than fulltime positions?
I'm a Canadian planning to attend Duke. Does anyone know of how international students fair in banking if they return to their home country?
Thank you!
Not international, but I have several friends who were.
You are definitely in a better spot being Canadian versus from SE asia or Latin America. Most banks have branches on Bay Street, and Duke will put you on par with Ivey, Queens, etc.
However, international students definitely have a rough time. I saw a lot of really qualified guys shot down; the banks won't say it, but it probably was due to the hassle of getting a visa, especially for a intern.
Basically, you will be at a small disadvantage, but, if you're a rockstar, you'll be fine.
Please don't disseminate inaccurate information: 1) Don't worry about the quota, due to the recession it hasn't been even close to filling in the past few years. Also, some banks might ship you off to London or Hong Kong for a year, if you happen to be the unlucky one who doesn't get the visa and reapply for you for next year (I know cases).
2)YOU DO NOT NEED A WORK VISA AS AN INTERN. As an intern you apply for employment authorization on your own (OPT or CPT). The bank will not be involved with that. The only firms that will not hire international interns are the ones that do not sponsor for visas for full time: why would you take an intern if he/she won't make the transition into a full time position?
3)Most BBs sponsor for visas for full time for all front office roles. GS sponsors the back office as well. As someone in the thread mentioned BAML does not sponsor back office roles, nor does JPM.
Don't worry about it. All the legit banks recruit international students and if you are good enough they will find a way to get you in.
Front office/middle office should not be a problem. I am in F**king operations and BoA wont sponsor my Visa.
International Student Applying for FT after Graduation in US (Originally Posted: 03/11/2012)
Hey guys, I have a question about international students applying for FT after graduation.
This is my last semester in US. I have been networking a lot with different consulting firms but the firms seem to be reluctant to do any off season hiring in Spring. There are two options I can see now for myself, which are pretty bad.
Option 1: Find a job in US first so that I can stay in US until Fall semester (OPT issues) at which time I can apply to FT positions through my school.
Option 2: Return to Singapore to find FT jobs.
My question is which option is better for me. I know that Option 1 would definitely give me more opportunities because I am doing it through the school and many firms come to school to hire for FT positions. However, I do not know much about Option 2. Would applying outside campus be much harder than applying through campus?
Please feel free to give me your opinions and and other options that you can think of.
yeah... applying outside campus is harder than applying through campus.... i'd say option 1... do option 1 but also apply for opportunities in your own country...
The call is yours. No one can decide what is better for you, especially when you are looking for jobs with a close-minded attitude.
If your priority is to get a job right after grad and do OPT , you don't have to start with a consulting firm. There are plenty of F-500 companies that are recruiting for entry level positions in different field and they will sponsor you for the H1B1 visa after you complete your OPT.
Staying for an extra semester, just to go through OCR is not worth it either because you have no guarantee that you will get a consulting offer or a job offer.
By the way, if you find a job now, you won't be able to switch jobs next fall. No employers will want to hire you when they know that you will only be able to work for less than 10 months because whatever time you spend at your first job will get deducted from your OPT period.
You are making your life more complicated than it has to be.
Thanks for the comment and the new perspective about employers looking at the remaining OPT period before making their hiring decision.
I do not think that I am being closed minded simply because of the fact that I am open to working outside US. In fact, I am trying to cast a wide net so that I can apply to opportunities within US as well as apply to opportunities in Asia effectively.
The only issue I can see not being able to attend the interviews in Singapore due to OPT restrictions. This is pertinent for me now since I am trying to coordinate an interview with Deloitte back in Singapore and am deciding if I should return back to Singapore before and after my graduation.
Get OPT, and look for a company to sponsor you for H1B while there. It will be exceptionally hard to transfer back to the US for FT position once you are out of the country.
Option 1 is far better because you'll be testing yourself.
My experience: I was also an international student. Graduated May 2010 with interviews but no offers yet. I applied for OPT serveral months before graduation, and started OPT approx. mid-July 2010. Got an offer for full time position with a bank in September. Started working using OPT status, and got an H-1B application put in + approved Spring 2011.
Listen to his advice OP.
Take a couple of days , consider your options and make a decision.
Hey KPP,
I am actually in the midst of applying for OPT too and am deciding on the starting date of OPT. I was thinking of starting on July 1. How did you decide on your start date?
Good to hear. It's tougher having the work visa hurdle but I like to believe that it builds character to do this on your own. You can go back home whenever you want, so why not see if you can win the struggle here first?
I was wondering if you guys can give me some feedback on my resume
http://www.razume.com/documents/24856
Thanks!
you went to brown and you got this shitty exp
wtf???
I was not able to find a good position with my electrical engineering degree at Brown so I went to grad school and I did not know about consulting until my senior year so it was too late to apply for FT in Spring. Most of my friends who got into Bain and BCG were in finance/ economics.
International Student who got a Job in the US - H1B / B1 Question (Originally Posted: 01/19/2013)
Hello,
I received an offer to join a MBB in the US. They will sponsor me to get the H1B Visa. However, I dont want to start in October and as a result miss the training. I have read there is a B1 Visa which would enable me to do the traning but not sure they will do it for me.
Did anyone ever live this situation?
Thanks!
Interested in potential responses. Btw were you target? How hard was it getting a sponsor?
Target yep As soos as you do the internship then you should be sponsored quite easily (For H1B) Now i have no clue about B1
International Student looking for I-Banking (Originally Posted: 03/14/2008)
I know the market has been heading towards a downward spiral and landing a job in I-Banking is becoming all the more tougher. My question is based on the following criteria:
I haven't heard back from the local boutiques I've applied and I need an internship pretty badly for this summer.
How can I make a convincing argument that being an international student isn't a problem? Or is it? Is there no way around it? How much tougher is it to get in with such a status?
There are only two options:
1.) Either the bank doesn't sponsor H1b, in which case there is no point to even talk to them and to try to make an argument that coming from an international background is a valuable asset. (You could, however, always ask them to forward your resume to their respective European/Asian office if you are interested in working there. It doesn't hurt to ask that question and could help you get an easy interview.)
2.) Tha bank does sponsor H1b - good for you, you are at least at par with a native-born because obviously, if the bank sponsors, they're interested in hiring a diverse group of people and this can only be to your benefit. Talk about diversity, how you can see things from a different perspective, how you could leverage your international experience in the future and work for their foreign office, how it helps you to be a more flexible person, how you can adapt to new situations quicker because you come from a diverse background.
All BBs sponsor H1b and don't differentiate/discriminate based on nationality. In fact, I asked a GS recruiter if it could be a disadvantage for me that I am foreign, and he looked at me and said that he thought it was illegal to discrimate based on nationality. Well in fact it isn't illegal and companies do it a lot. Not BB though.
I'd say about a half of MM does sponsor, and from that half, there are many that need to see something really valuable in you to justify the couple thousand $$ they'd have to pay for your H1b application. All in all, I'd say int'l have a lot higher chance at BB than at MM.
As a F1 student myself, I think the F1 status is by no means a bigger problem compared to a non-target background.
My future employer (a top boutique) sponsors H1b Visa, and promises they will try other ways even if my H1b case were declined. btw they never asked my immigration status until I accepted the offer.
and T73 was spot on: "Talk about diversity, how you can see things from a different perspective, how you could leverage your international experience in the future and work for their foreign office, how it helps you to be a more flexible person, how you can adapt to new situations quicker because you come from a diverse background."
Also, keep in mind it depends on market conditions a lot. Last year, both BofA and Wachovia were sponsoring. This year, they didn't. By the time you start interviewing this fall, the markets might be better than they are right now, but it seems like everyone's bets are inclining towards even tougher times ahead of us...
If I were you, I'd try applying in Europe/Asia. But coming from a non-target, you'll have to do more than just apply through the web sites. Try calling MM's offices directly and see if you can talk to highe people there. If they enjoy talking to you for 5-10 minutes, chances are they will give a good consideration to your resume as well. If it doesn't work out, go for Fortune 500 company or Big 4 valuation, work there for 3-4 years, get your MBA from a target school and try again.
Good luck!
On International Student Opportunities (Originally Posted: 09/16/2014)
Hello Everyone, This is my first post here. I am a senior in high school in India and am extremely passionate about corporate finance (i-banking is on mind) I want to go to college in the USA and major in finance. However, affordability is a big factor for me. I have an excellent high school GPA and great SAT scores and have no problems most International students have regarding communication as I have lived in the USA for a while. The best schools that I can afford would be Kelley at IU (my first choice) McComb's at Austin or Kenan Flagler at UNC. I like IU as I believe I have what it takes to get into their reputed workshop that seems to place quite well at BBs and as I want to continue in the US, this is a key factor for me. What would be the best option ? IU would cost me the least as I could get a decent scholarship. The others don't give aid to International Students. I already have a well rounded resume and my own start up. I am highly driven. All I need is advise on the right path to take. Thanks for your time.
I have the same question too! I do believe that IU Kelley is your best bet and looks like that's really something you want also. I heard great things about the IBW there. However, i'm looking for someone to help me with my question regarding International Opportunities too. Good Luck!
Sponsorship can be difficult, but Kelley definitely offers a great career services/recruitment program for its students.
Kelley is a great option, however getting into the IBW is very, very difficult. The competition is steep and I will say, from experience, that majority of those in the workshop are non-international students. There are less than 5 in the entire network (IBW/IMW). Do not go to Kelley simply for the workshop.
I would advise against going to any of the schools if affordability is a factor. I would rather advise to go a school in Canada where you can get employment pass or a school in Singapore. I am a IU grad from India as well. PM me if you wanna talk more.
International Student Ask for Advice (Originally Posted: 10/01/2014)
Just got rejections by 2 boutiques in NYC. Not feeling good, and I've been wondering how should I do to break into IB as an international student from non-target school.
Here is my brief background info,
Earned BS in Economics in China, got MS in Finance in U.S. from a non-target b school (not many alumni in IB). Had summer internship at Citi in China. And I am now working as a FT financial analyst at a small IR firm. But I want to be an I banker so badly.
I really got hard time to find IB contacts and don't know how to reach to them. Also, during interview with boutiques, I thought I did nothing wrong and positioned myself very well, but still got rejected by them. Do you have some ideas about their rejection reason?
I know there are tons of stories on WSO about how a non-target get a FT offer at BB or MM. So I am looking for advice on how an international student like me to get an offer from IB.
Rejection reason - your written english is good, but not great.
You also have to understand that while people don't necessarily mean to be racist, everyone is more comfortable with what they know. I-banking = long hours and one of the informal questions you are supposed to ask yourself as the person hiring is whether you feel good chemistry to pull those long hours with a candidate. Or, phrased differently, would you want this person sitting next to you on an 8 hour flight. It's another hurdle you will have to overcome.
What to do from here: how can you leverage your immigrant status? There have to be professional and social groups that you could network with. Networking is the best route to get an interview, crushing the interview and getting the job is going to all be up to you.
I know tons of Chinese people in technical areas like Quant, Risk, and Structured Products where superior technical/math skills trump "soft"/language skills. Math is more like the native language there. Also met two IBD Chinese analysts, but they went to college here and have almost zero accent.
As some of the people above said, work on cancelling out your accent. It is hard but totally worth it.
Advice for an international student (Originally Posted: 12/24/2014)
Hey Guys, this might seem like no-brainer to you, however are there any targets who don’t care about the sat/act, at least if you’re an international student and only look at your country specific exams? If yes, how much do they cost? The European target schools for IB in London usually cost no more than 2400 USD for an academic year, with some of them actually being for free. What would you guys recommend? Starting my career in London/FFM and trying to get into an American school for my MBA?
Not sure which European targets don't cost more than $2400 for an academic year? Are you looking exclusively at German/Swiss/Dutch schools?
RSM as well as maastricht (which is getting more and more target),
RSM as well as maastricht (which is getting more and more target),
where do you get your infos that Rsm and Maastricht become more and more targeted ? (I will start the MSc. Finance at RSM in September, so that would be great news for me)
IB as an international student? (Originally Posted: 07/31/2016)
How difficult is it to break into IB as an international student from a target school (think Duke, Amherst, brown)?
Dude, stop creating these type of threads. We get it you want assurance. Whatever school you go to you'll have a shot at IB.
Also, there's no in point creating these threads if you're not already admitted at one of the schools mentioned so stop wasting your time worrying. Not to mention that there are plenty of threads with the same questions as yours.
Possibilities for international students (Originally Posted: 12/04/2016)
Hey guys, do you guys think that it will make sense to study in the US? Trump will restrict the immigration even more, and it's already extremely difficult for international to get recruited, especially because they are not allowed in OCR (don't know if its true). Also my testing scores are subpar and I would probably end up at stern with massive debt or a 2nd tier school like uiuc or washington and lee. So my question basically is if I have a better chance to break into IB if a decide for a target school in Europe (RSM, Bocconi, HSG) or a subpar college in the US.
I'm an international that lived in the US for 5 years and worked there for one year. I also have many international friends that worked (or still work) in the US. Firstly whatever you heard about OCR isn't true. Yes, international students can participate in OCR. The only thing is that most companies are not willing to sponsor international visas, and the ones that do sponsor are typically very competitive.
The short answer to your question is no, I don't think it makes sense to study in the US unless you are authorized to work there. Most of my international friends agree with this. It has little to do with Trump, its mainly because H1B visas are so difficult to get (lottery system).
Feel free to message me if you have more targeted/specific questions.
Thank you! My last question is about a 2nd tier school such as uiuc and the chances of getting an IB gig from there, despite being an international? I guess very slim, right? Also it's probably not well known in Europe. And even a school like Maastricht would place better?
Alright lets set things straight. I am an International and did my masters in engineering at one of H/S/W )(ie., their respective engineering counterparts) and ended up taking their business school courses because of the flexibility in my degree and am currently in one of the BB as a Quant. I wouldnt say getting jobs is easy and this is from one coming from a good school. But for MBAs, all I can say is that unless you can get into one of the top ten, I would say getting jobs for Internationals, would be difficult. Because after you graduate, the company has to sponsor your work Visa and most of the MBAs ask for green card sponsorship since they end up working in the companies for a long time. So its a long term commitment. And also the pay has to be good since you do an MBA, you end up in a good position in the firm. So for such an investment, IB firms do finish their hiring from tier 1 schools. In general, the job market for Internationals, is not that great unless you have contacts in your current firm in the US or end up doing your MBA from a tier 1 school. This has been the case before the whole restriction stuff coming up in the news. So do weigh your options carefully or just wait out a year. ¯_(ツ)_/¯
International student, non-target, seeking IB roles (Originally Posted: 12/15/2017)
Hi WSO,
Getting straight to the scenario... I'm an international student at a non-target school, 3.8 GPA in BS Finance, student-athlete, worked for a boutique bank last summer. Having trouble getting interviews and those I have had generally don't go any further once firms find out I would need a working visa.
Any suggestions on how to overcome this obstacle? I have been networking with alumni regularly and applying to banks of all sizes.
Any advice would be great, and thanks to all the bankers who post their success stories on here.
Hi husky01, the silence is deafening, sorry about that.... Any of the threads below helpful?
Maybe one of our professional members will share their wisdom: The Pope AcesEdge bhans2112
Fingers crossed that one of those helps you.
International Students - Which bank is best (Originally Posted: 09/28/2006)
What bank is best for international students?
I think your question is too broad. International from where? Look at it this way, if you're South American, perhaps a LATAM group (think JPM, CS, ML) will be best suited to you.
i.e. if you are in germany...Deutsche Bank if you are in france Societe Generale
etc
Another International student thread: some questions. (Originally Posted: 04/24/2007)
Has anyone ever lost their job because of not being able to get a h1, especially in a BB? Any predictions of whats going to happen this year? All freshly graduated foreign kids are fuc*ed, so a BB cannot just get rid of ALL of them, can it?
Another question is that most of our OPTs are going to end before bonus time, and even if a re-location (to london say) is made, how is that going to affect our bonuses (July)? Some people have their OPTs in March...which is quite a few months from July
i was wondering about the same things. my opt ends in jan since i graduated in the winter. for those of you who filed for h1b under premium processing, guess we'll know if we got lucky or not by the end of this week.
I am keeping my fingers crossed. The problem is last year people went to London, and those people were supposed to be back in October, but they might not get H1 and might have to stay there. They can't keep pushing people into London, hell doesn't London hire its own people? So I see people being pushed into Toronto, Mumbai, HK, Tokyo. Or getting fired.
Yeah, I got a lot of friends in this position, and I think I saw in all my offer letters that obtaining a visa was a condition of employment. I do not think firms can send everyone to London.
or whatever.
Yes, your employment is subject to our ability to get the work visa. We'll work with you, to an extent, to find an alternative. However, sometimes practicality dictates that we resign ourselves to the necessity of having to release you. It's unfortunate, but it is what it is.
My program manager just called me last week and told me that I have been relocated to London for the entire two-year program including training. I would recommend calling your employer's HR to ask if they are considering such an option. In my case it came totally out of the blue.
Is it BB in NYC? Did you already know you did not get the lottery?
Are they going to pay you the London wage or the NY one in that case?
Oconnor - Wages, bonuses, and everything else are now determined by the London office. I technically no longer have any relation to the firms' NYC program.
ghosht - Yes, it is a major BB in NYC. I knew that I did not get the lottery because I did not enter it, due to my late graduation.
krafty-are you EU/EEA citizen?
thanks
Yeah, Just found out I'm getting relocated too
where are you getting relocated? are you BB NY too?
sol - Yes, I am. I don't need a visa to work in the UK.
Well at least you get paid beter in London with the whole 2:1 thing going on... Seriously though, what a joke. They complain about Wall St. losing its edge, hmm I wonder why...
I believe its a little law called Sarbanes-Oxley...
was anyone notified of the lottery results yet?
Oconnor - Unfortunately, the compensation package does not make up entirely for the price difference between London and NYC. Base pay is only 20% higher.
I hear EU countries are not exactly that easy to just stroll into and work. Am I missing something about all these people getting transferred to London?
If they aren't US citizens they are likely citizens of somewhere else and if it is some EU country then I don't think it is a problem to work in London. Even if it isn't they may have more extra visas to give out this year...
oconnor - how late was your 'late graduation'? Does anyone know if the lottery results are out, or when they're scheduled to be released?
they ran the lottery on april 12. supposedly that's when premium processing started...so i guess we're supposed to know the results today.
Yes, I know of at least two people who had to cancel or lose offers because of visa issues. One went back home, applied again, this time got successfully sponsored. Another went home and stayed there.
are you talking about IB or PE (since you work in PE). In IB its unlikely to happen (or so I hope), because they have so many international offices.
Anyone get feedback about the visa yet, or any updates as to what the BBs are doing this time around?
I'm afraid it's IB...
They do have international offices, but not all of them need people, and many recruit locally, which tend to be cheaper.
So I guess Lehman is kinda screwing theirn analysts....fcuk. any other updates? anyone get the visa?
Marry a fat American chick. (Assuming you can't get any better).
Better than that, pay a chick to marry you for a few $K.
BB that hires International students (Originally Posted: 07/05/2007)
Can anyone list out the BB firms that hire and/or sopnsors H1-b for international students? thanks.
For a FT? All of them. There is always a decent percentage of internationals in an analyst class.
I hear this year has been pretty tough for internationals given that H1 visas were exhausted on day one. Many top tier IB, MC and tech firms that used to recruit internationals till last year, are posting jobs only for US Citizens and permanent residents for the class of 2008.
Recruiting for International Students (Originally Posted: 07/08/2009)
What do you think the full-time recruiting will be like for international students this fall? I know from friends that it was harder for internationals last year due to new H1-B caps under the TARP program. Is it likely to get better this year? Also, do you guys think international students have a better chance on S&T or banking side, all else equal?
It should at least be a little better since several firms have repaid TARP (which was the main governing force in the hiring restrictions). How much better the hiring market for IB in general will be is still TBD, but I think the outlook id definitely better this year than last both in terms of banks repaying TARP, and a generally better economic position (not good, but better, for the most part) - as always, however, time will ultimately tell.
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Shouldn't be too bad for internships (although I heard BofA doesn't even take intl interns?) but no idea for FT recruitment.
Wasn't there some Senator/Congressman trying to curb intl employment/reduce H1's given out?
Summer internship--any chance for international students? (Originally Posted: 08/26/2010)
I am from University of Hong Kong and I am having an exchange program in McGill University for the moment.
Next year I would be a junior and be desperate for internship. With a major in accounting, an internship experience this summer as a junior consultant in a brand consulting firm and CGPA of 3.5+, is there any chance for me to get an internship in Wall Street? Or better yet, which company has internship programs for international students?
Thanks a lot for the help.
"is there any chance for me to get an internship in Wall Street?"
Uh, yes.
You need to be more concrete and give us more information if you want a useful answer.
Depends on what kind of internship. IBD I'm guessing?
Tough, given that you have no finance experience and a non-American style education. I'm guessing a HK accounting major is a 4-year program to obtain a BSc+MSc Accounting+CA, and you do no liberal arts, limited math/financial modeling, and it's very streamlined to the specific major you're doing (like all HK education from what I know). If you're just getting a BSc Accounting then I'd assume it's a 3-year program like most HK/British undergrad programs, in which case what year are you? Also, if you're an accounting major, why are you doing brand consulting, and why do you even want to work on Wall Street? What are your career plans?
What are your other stats (extracurriculars, etc.)? I think you would be better off trying to work in HK or maybe even Canada. This is coming from a Canadian-born Hong Kong Chinese studying at a US school.
Seeking advice (international student) (Originally Posted: 12/09/2010)
I'm a sophomore at Cornell doing operations research and engineering, 3.4-5 GPA by recruiting if I maintain grades, with solid ECs. My concern is that even with most of TARP repaid, banks will have a bias against internationals due to the extra hassle of paperwork? Are there some banks that take internationals while others do not? How do I overcome this? Does an international candidate need to be substantially better than a domestic one, and how do you differentiate.
I've done a search and read all the older threads on this but they're a little dated. Thank you ahead of time for your responses.
Most bulge brackets hire internationals. Random ones like Wells Fargo don't. Big MMs/Elite boutiques do. All other shops its a toss up.
Once you get an interview, you're on an equal footing as everyone else. The only bias an interviewer might have is your accent depending on how difficult it is to understand you since they need bankers to form coherent sentences. Also, by no means should you put "English" as one of your languages on your resume, that's a dead give away that you're international/fobby.
send me a PM
I have friends who are international and they had no trouble, seems like an even field.
Placement for international student (Originally Posted: 02/11/2011)
I was quite relaxed about the chances of me being placed providing I get into the top programs I wanted to go to for a MSF or MSC in Management, but a thread and some comments here have really got me concerned.
I have a good background (3.5GPA UG from Oxford, Masters in Economic Law from a top law school, Work Experience) and felt I would be more than competitive when looking for a job in the US or Canada following graduation.
I'm applying to Duke MMS, UIUC, Vanderbilt, Villanova, Columbia Financial Economics, Claremont, UWO (Ivey), Imperial MSC in Management, Rochester and Wake Forest.
My question is, judging from the consensus here, there is little chance of me being placed with a 2nd tier MSF?
Anyone have any input??
Those programs provide an opportunity to rebrand yourself. If you went to a no name college in the middle of Iowa and wanted to break into Wall Street, going to Duke might help your cause by providing some OCR and an alumni network.
With your background, I don’t think you’re in need of rebranding. Network a bit, get a few more years of experience and pursue an MBA.
get more experience and get an mba. honestly, going to these schools is a step down from your current position.
Tips for breaking in as an international student / networking for internationals? (Originally Posted: 09/30/2011)
Hi,
I am international student and I want to work in London in S&T or equity research. Does anyone here either foreign students or regulars have any tips that would apply specifically to international students? Should I specifically target people with similar background for networking? Do foreign professionals get approached less by native students for networking purposes?
Thanks.
I don't know how about London, but in the US it is a huge hurdle if you don't have at least a green card. In terms of networking - you have no advantage or disadvantage unless you do not speak English well. It's irrelevant where do you come from, but can help you in terms of having an interesting story. You should target people you want to work with no matter what is their background. If they are from your country - well, maybe there will be a connection, but maybe not.
International Student Recruitment (Originally Posted: 12/11/2012)
Do you aware the biggest student recruitment organization in USA?
Shit... do I aware -- I don't know.. I'z never asked
I do aware not!
Please let us do aware
Intead: I work with the Association of Global Universities (AGU), a student recruitment and advising service affiliated with International Studies Abroad (ISA), one of the largest providers of study abroad in the United States and a recognized leader in international education since 1987.
Given our global infrastructure including offices and staff in over 50 cities around the world, AGU is in a unique position to assist students worldwide in their pursuit of short-term and full degree programs in the US and abroad. If you are interested in learning more, please visit our website and do not hesitate to contact me!
--Brittany
Search google for firms that sponsor in your area of interest.
Study Abroad - International Student (Originally Posted: 07/06/2013)
Hello everyone,
I recently discovered this website and I am amazed at how much information one can gain here and things to learn.
Now to the topic; I am an international student studying at a non-target private christian university in the Pacific Northwest. I am considering studying abroad in my senior year during Fall semester at the University of Zurich in Switzerland.
The analogy lies in the fact that I had already done an internship at a big bank in Europe and hope on getting a summer internship next year after my junior year. What are the chances of networking as an exchange student in Zurich, knowing that all major BB's are there. (and not in my US school) ?
Thanks in advance!
Big chance especially Credit Suisse and UBS.
Just make sure you look into the work permit situation first. Switzerland is really restrictive when it comes to giving out work permits to non-EU citizens. Not sure whether it is the same for internships though.
Another thing to keep in mind is that both UBS and CS have laid of a lot of people in the last few years, especially in IB and PB.
Lastly, many employers want you to speak one of the official languages (German, French or Italian) and if you dont, and you are not a super star, they will hold that against you and give the job to a Swiss or German or someone else who is fluent in one of the languages.
Beny23,
Yes I was initially thinking about those two. Although i am not sure how much networking you can do in Zurich as an exchange student.
Pelle01,
One of the reasons for me to choose Zurich is to improve my German (conversational level thus far). I do need to check out the permits since I am a non-EU international (ironically i am from Europe)
Appreciate the comments peeps
I have read a lot of BS on here, but this is just terrible advice. OP might actually think that this is true. Don't comment on something if you don't have any idea about what's going on in the country or with the companies!
Yes, Credit Suisse and UBS have big offices there. No, you won't get them easily. If you have been reading the news lately, you know that, especially UBS, has fired a huge amount of people (and I think they also sold a business unit). You should also read about the proposed policy changes when it comes to the Swiss bank account anonymity which are going to hurt both banks tremendously.
Your lack of German, which is the business language, won't help your search either. And getting a visa (assuming you also want to work in Switzerland after grad) will be hard. VERY HARD.
There is nothing wrong with studying abroad and improving your language. It will come in handy later. However, it is questionable if it gives you a better/any opportunity at a summer internship or full time offer.
Also, you should learn more about networking in Switzerland because it is very different from networking in the US/UK. Do you have any family connections in Switzerland?
I apologize if this sounds very harsh, but I just want you to have a better/realistic perspective.
Kinghongkong,
The main reasoning here lies in the fact that Uni Zurich has a greater exposure to BB's than my liberal arts school in USA (non-target). I am considering doing a MSc in Switzerland, thus this experience would come in handy :)
IB invernship advice for international student (Originally Posted: 12/29/2013)
Here's my story- I am an international student, currently a sophomore at stony brook university(non-target school). I am majoring in Business Management with a double concentration in Accounting and Financance, and a minor in computer science. I have a 3.07 gpa(3.87 major gpa). I DO fully intend to bring my gpa up to 3.5-3.7 before i graduate. I want to break into investment banking, but the odds are heavily stacked against me.
I first got introduced to I-banking through a friend who was talking about the financial collapse, and my interest grew ever since. I do a ton of research on my own, and I've taken a couple classes on finance and economics, and i am good at it! I am also reading the rosebaum book and plan to start brealey and myers after.(I know technical knowledge isn't of major importance, but since I am at a disadvantage being international with my weak gpa and a non target, i dont want to risk it- plus its really interesting to me so I don't really mind). I am capable of doing the work required of a banker, and am very eager to learn as well. I have no delusions about investment banking- i know the amount of work that is required of you, and that only excited me more believe it or not. Also, I do have a genuine interest and was attracted by the profession long before I knew who gekko was(although that wasn't a de-motivator by any respect)
Right now I am looking for a summer internship, and I need some advice on how to proceed. If anyone is/was in a similar situation and has broken into banking, please help me out, i'll be eternally grateful. I would like to know how you guys managed the Visa and networking issues. I would also love to hear from any present analysts and potential employers as well.
Thank You.
Simply put, top banks will hire you if you are an exceptional candidate even if you're an international student. There is no point in hiring you if you aren't pretty dam impressive when they could hire any number of people as or more qualified than you are without Visa issues. To put it lightly, you aren't currently in a position to be competitive for a solid IB internship given your profile. To become competitive, network as hard as you possibly can, seriously bring your grades up, and get involved in some solid EC's- if possible, transfer to a target (that will make your chances skyrocket). In your position, I would get my grades up enough to transfer and then do it, even if it means I have to do an extra year of college. That depends on a bunch of factors like financial position etc of course.
Having a 3.5 won't matter when you graduate. You need it when you apply for internships. For someone in the US, it would still be hard to make it from Stony Brook -> IB with a 3.5.
There are a decent amount of banks that sponsor for visas. You're probably going to have a hell of a time getting someone to sponsor you though. There's a thread with a list of companies that sponsor, find it.
Technical knowledge is important, especially in your position.
As far as getting a job, you need to start networking. I'd bet against you networking into a BB/top boutique and I never gamble. But you still need to try and network with those people because they might connect you with someone else. You can try hitting smaller M&A shops for an internship, but there's almost zero chance they'll sponsor a work Visa.
You're in a bind. You have a low GPA (for IB recruiting), you go to a non-target, you haven't networked much if at all, and you need a Visa. Your best bet is getting as much work experience as possible. That means finding an internship with whoever will get you one, taking off-cycle (during spring/fall semesters) internships, and getting a 4.0 this semester and next semester.
Also, find the right forum to post in. Good luck.
First off, I'd bet against me too at this point :/ I know I have to get as much work exp as possible but I don't know where to start, or what to say. I'm okay with doing unpaid internships obviously(and I'm well aware nobody's gonna pay me anyways). My main question is, what do I say to employers if I get a hold of them, because chances are they'll hang up as soon as they hear I'm international. Should I tell them I'll volunteer to work or something along those lines? any suggestions?
International Student seeks IB analyst intern (Originally Posted: 09/14/2014)
My name is Daniel Madari and I am a business/finance undergrad (freshman) at University of Tampa.
I am looking for an IB analyst program/internship in New York next summer. Since I am an international student from Austria it makes it way harder to get in.
I would be very grateful if anyone can give me some advice in terms of different possibilities for me as an international student.
Thanks!
Hi Daniel, keep networking with large banks if you want to break in early/work at a bank in Austria. Otherwise, try to find boutiques you can work for in--they can be more receptive.
HELP! International Student recruitment tips for Full-Time opportunities (Originally Posted: 09/16/2014)
Hey guys, I am an International Student from an Non-Target school with a 3.1 GPA. I am looking for FT opportunities in Financial Services Industry (Anything from PE to ER to Wealth Management etc) I have had 4 internships focusing on Equity research.
If anyone has any tips for where I should apply, I would appreciate it. I have started applying through my school network and going to Info sessions but a lot of the companies coming on campus do not sponsor International students. Does anyone have any advice about how I can go about this situation?
Thank you
First thing you need to do is to bump your GPA. Alot of companies i know need a 3.2 min to even apply
@"hellocon" Hi again. Yes I have been working on that these past 2 semesters. Had a 3.75 gpa last semester and looking at 4.0 this semester. Which should push my GPA to 3.2-3.3 I have also applied to a lot of places, but haven't heard back from anyone yet. Any tips on what I should do now?
Internship for International Student (Originally Posted: 10/16/2014)
Hello everyone,
Let me first introduce myself. I am an international student from South Korea attending an Ivy League school. I am currently interested in career in IB, specifically outside of Korea since I've heard that the working conditions are very, very bad here.
Right now I am in Korea due to the mandatory national service and I plan to return for Spring semester. However, due to my family's financial conditions, I've recently changed my plans and decided to graduate a year earlier. Because I came back to Korea after finishing my 2nd year, I will be graduating in Dec 2015. Thus, I only have one summer left for internships before I graduate.
Now, the problem is, I heard that you get your summer internships through on campus recruiters who visit the school during the Fall semester. Because I'm in Korea, I cannot meet the recruiters.
How should I approach to spot an internship opportunity for the next summer, and it would be great if you guys can offer some tips on how to land a job in IB for a special case like me!
PMed
Advice for an international student...again (Originally Posted: 12/25/2014)
//since the last thread somehow got Invisible I'm doing it again.."
Hey Guys, this might seem like no-brainer to you, however are there any targets who don’t care about the sat/act, at least if you’re an international student and only look at your country specific exams? If yes, how much do they cost? The European target schools for IB in London usually cost no more than 2400 USD for an academic year, with some of them actually being for free. What would you guys recommend? Starting my career in London/FFM and trying to get into an American school for my MBA?
EU IB Target schools in London cost appr 30000 GBP per year - not aware of any for free
You are prob better off looking into the requirements for every university. FYI, targets in EU should be HEC/ESADE/IE/LSE/Warwick/Imperial/Oxford/Cambridge, You could use the FT Msc in Finance Pre experience as a proxy
EDIT: Forgot Bocconi!
People tend to forget HSG as well as RSM and other targets in the german/dutch part of europe since only a minority of their programs are teached in english as well as the fact that the people who study there usually want to stay in their home country, however the people who actually want to go to London, usually get recruited since they're the only german/dutch speaking students. And RSM as an example only costs like 2000 euros.
People tend to forget HSG as well as RSM and other targets in the german/dutch part of europe since only a minority of their programs are teached in english as well as the fact that the people who study there usually want to stay in their home country, however the people who actually want to go to London, usually get recruited since they're the only german/dutch speaking students. And RSM as an example only costs like 2000 euros.
Help with Job search for International Student (Originally Posted: 03/10/2015)
Hi, I am an International student at a Non-Target (3.2GPA) with 4 internships (3 international) on my resume. I have applied to loads of places but haven't heard back from most. Being an International Student has been the biggest reason of rejection. I just started applications again but could use an insight on where to begin. Does anyone know if a company still accepting Applications for Equity Research or Investment Banking or Wealth Management? Any help on the matter would be greatly appreciated.
Are you a junior or sophomore in college? From what I know, BBs, MMs, and EBs should be done. You might have to go through alumni connections/smaller boutiques and gear up for next year.
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