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Comments (39)

Mar 7, 2011 - 4:53pm

crap

How about the VPs? or are they just less miserable....

Get busy living
Mar 7, 2011 - 4:57pm
UFOinsider:
crap

How about the VPs? or are they just less miserable....

Marginally but still pretty miserable. MDs hate the jobs too. They sit around all day and wonder how they never got into KKR , Carlyle, or TPG. Everyone is miserable. The only ones with hope are analysts since they know they will be in PE in less than two years, and will come back and destroy associates through MDs that were mean to them with their fire breathe and laser eyes.

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Mar 7, 2011 - 8:01pm

These threads always make me feel naive for considering that I might be a "lifer!"

fdba Emory Blaine and BBA or otherwise trying to find the perfect pseudonym.
Mar 8, 2011 - 9:58am
DidNotSleepLastNight:
I am so ready to leave this job. and I just started!

Faustus:
These threads always make me feel naive for considering that I might be a "lifer!"

I'm applying to Bschool and seriously rethinking things. Knowing this ahead of time, I'm thinking of going into S&T instead of IBD. It just doesn't seem worth it.

Your thoughts?

Get busy living
Mar 8, 2011 - 12:45pm
UFOinsider:
DidNotSleepLastNight:
I am so ready to leave this job. and I just started!

Faustus:
These threads always make me feel naive for considering that I might be a "lifer!"

I'm applying to Bschool and seriously rethinking things. Knowing this ahead of time, I'm thinking of going into S&T instead of IBD. It just doesn't seem worth it.

Your thoughts?

Be careful about S&T out of an MBA program. I am not sure how heavily they recruit and I had a few friends who were trying to do trading out of Wharton and are now considering other options. I am not saying its impossible or even difficult for everyone, but definitely so some research on MBA placement in S&T

Mar 8, 2011 - 9:32pm
UFOinsider:
DidNotSleepLastNight:
I am so ready to leave this job. and I just started!

Faustus:
These threads always make me feel naive for considering that I might be a "lifer!"

I'm applying to Bschool and seriously rethinking things. Knowing this ahead of time, I'm thinking of going into S&T instead of IBD. It just doesn't seem worth it.

Your thoughts?

I am still in school but signed with a firm to begin in July – I've liked every sales guy I've met, so that might be an option too if you are looking in other places. What I meant by saying I feel naive, is that I don't see PE as this great escape from banking, at the higher levels the jobs as very different: one is a sales job and the other is as an investor, so assuming I like the overall environment of banking – which I have a feeling I will (naive part perhaps) – and I am more of a sales guy – which I am not sure of yet – then I can imagine myself staying with it, even going back to b school and returning to banking as an associate. Who knows, again, I will report back after sleeping for 40 hours a week for two years and tell you what I think!

fdba Emory Blaine and BBA or otherwise trying to find the perfect pseudonym.
Mar 7, 2011 - 10:58pm

I have never been a banker but having worked with hundreds of them (as the client) I would generalize as follows:

Analyst - miserable hours and tedious mind-numbing work including spreading comps, formatting and re-formatting pitch books that clients barely read, working with idiot staffers/data room providers/printers/etc., basically just being everyone's bitch and having to kiss ass all day

Associate - you spent two years in b-school only to come back and do essentially the same work as analysts, sure you have more responsibility and an analyst to help with some of the grunt work but you are still updating working group lists, tweaking models, being at the beck and call of your client at all hours sending research reports, updating data rooms and helping coordinate meetings. More pay but still a lot of admin BS and having to manage up and down

VP - Working on a greater number of details but not that involved in any of them, coordinating work flow, answering to the MD.

MD - kissing ass and prospecting for business and dreaming up ways to extract fees from clients, pitching clients as to why your bank is so much better than the others.

It all sounds pretty miserable to me but if you enjoy client servicing and coordinating transaction work it really is pretty easy work (a lot of hours yes) for a decent living. I would rather allocate capital and try to earn a return.

Mar 8, 2011 - 12:23am
lifesgreatmystery:
IBD stops being appealing after you graduate from college really

Us S&T guys look at people in IBD with a combination of pity and curiosity. From an economic perspective, unless you have a huge interest in what you actually do on the job (though by accounts here I don't see how you could), then it is a very dumb business area to go into if you just want to make money. I think there are better things out there.

Mar 8, 2011 - 3:23am
awm55:
lifesgreatmystery:
IBD stops being appealing after you graduate from college really

Us S&T guys look at people in IBD with a combination of pity and curiosity. From an economic perspective, unless you have a huge interest in what you actually do on the job (though by accounts here I don't see how you could), then it is a very dumb business area to go into if you just want to make money. I think there are better things out there.

*Goes to megafund
*laughs at you while regulations at BBs kills off S&T
*pities you

Mar 8, 2011 - 4:24am
awm55:
lifesgreatmystery:
IBD stops being appealing after you graduate from college really

Us S&T guys look at people in IBD with a combination of pity and curiosity. From an economic perspective, unless you have a huge interest in what you actually do on the job (though by accounts here I don't see how you could), then it is a very dumb business area to go into if you just want to make money. I think there are better things out there.


well we have the megafunds, the fundamental hedge funds, the knowledge that our work kinda adds some value somewhere and isnt rent seeking behaviour and didnt cause the great financial crisis, its not great but hey.

I mean id also rather do trading, but when I look at the uncultured wild raw animals that go into trading, I dno I think I prefer a more sophisticated work environment.

Mar 8, 2011 - 7:59am

At one point I thought I could suck it up for 2 years for the exit ops, but it just wasn't worth the life-sucking nature of the job to me.

"You stop being an asshole when it sucks to be you." -IlliniProgrammer "Your grammar made me wish I'd been aborted." -happypantsmcgee
Mar 8, 2011 - 9:56am
D M:
At one point I thought I could suck it up for 2 years for the exit ops, but it just wasn't worth the life-sucking nature of the job to me.

What did you do instead?
Get busy living
Mar 8, 2011 - 10:11am
UFOinsider:
D M:
At one point I thought I could suck it up for 2 years for the exit ops, but it just wasn't worth the life-sucking nature of the job to me.

What did you do instead?

Sorry, that implied I'm out of college I guess, I'm actually still in school. I've pretty much narrowed my search down to Asset Management (mainly PB), Equity Research, and possibly some sort of corporate leadership program. I just know that's not what I want to do for 2 years (I'm 23 now, will be graduating college at 25, so age kind of plays a small role in this decision).

"You stop being an asshole when it sucks to be you." -IlliniProgrammer "Your grammar made me wish I'd been aborted." -happypantsmcgee
Mar 8, 2011 - 6:17pm

yeah not the unis, just the kind of people lol, theres alot of uncultured raw animals still at the above unis :p

going to a good university doesnt make you sophisticated...

the other part was also that most international guys went into IB, whilst all the english head to S&T and I get along alot better with the international guys.

Mar 8, 2011 - 6:21pm
leveredarb:
yeah not the unis, just the kind of people lol, theres alot of uncultured raw animals still at the above unis :p

going to a good university doesnt make you sophisticated...

the other part was also that most international guys went into IB, whilst all the english head to S&T and I get along alot better with the international guys.

They do exist. But it is heavily desk dependent. The FICC floor is like a library in comparison to the Equities floor (normally, though this is by no means a rule) so the guys in FICC tend to be more cerebral. That fits my personality better and I get along great with the people I work with.

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Mar 8, 2011 - 7:12pm

If you stick out a promotion to associate before you head off to b-school can you land a VP job straight out of MBA?

Mar 8, 2011 - 9:53pm

The whole "S&T is uncultured" and "Banking is refined" thing is sort of true if you are speaking in generalizations... but it's also just a product of the fact that bankers have to act refined, discrete, etc, because it's a client oriented job.

The reality is that in IBD it actually DOES matter what suit you're wearing, and if your shoes are shined properly, and if you went to the right prep school and all that "refined" stuff... because that's half of how you get CEOs and other people you are going to work for (generally all people who appreciate fine suits and were likely your classmates at prep school) choose who to work with...

Mar 9, 2011 - 12:12am

um.. there are lots of jobs where it matters what suit you're wearing and if your shoes are shined properly

and the fact that you can shine your shoes properly doesn't make banking "refined"... it just means you're not retarded

Mar 9, 2011 - 12:15am
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