Where does an investment bank like MS get the capital to underwrite bought deals? Do they raise cash using repos or is it through another method? hard to think they’d have that much cash on hand.
Also, when they buy shares in an IPO, are they able to make a profit right away by selling on the secondary market? I remember seeing a rule against flipping, but I’m not sure. From what I understand, if it’s a bought deal, they’ll buy the whole thing then resell it to institutionals for a profit. if it’s a best effort, then fees are fixed, though I’m curious to hear what are the drivers determining the amount.
should it be done by income? yes. is there a logical way to do it by income? no. I do think that widespread "first gen" recruiting should become a thing and is easy implementable(GS has done it).
bump
When did GS start first gen recruiting? Lol I guess I missed out on that
Bruh. This is like the 5th post within the span of a week.
Cry me a fucking river.
u prob know that cuz wso is ur life and u have nothing better to do
Wso is my life? Keep projecting.
All you literally have to do is click the Top or Recent section and you'll see it flooded with the same "diversity recruiting" critic posts.
Its getting a little tiresome ok?
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I love seeing people bitch about this who are clearly just bitter they didn’t succeed. Is diversity recruiting perfect? No. But obviously it’s accomplishing the goals of the banks or they wouldn’t keep doing it, year after year.
"obviously it's accomplishing the goals of the banks or they wouldn't keep doing it, year after year."
I think the point of having this discussion is to challenge the goals of the banks. How well you can meet a goal doesn't mean much if the goal is wrong. Are they misguided?
If the goal is simply to get as many women and minorities into banking as possible -> is that the wrong approach, and why?
Also, starting your comment with "I love seeing people bitch about this who are clearly just bitter they didn't succeed" ironically makes you seem like the bitter one. There was nothing inflammatory in OP's post.
What goals do banks accomplish by holding "diverse" candidates from Phillip Exeter with lawyer daddies and making it harder for children of Asian immigrants who grew up with financial struggles? Currently these "goals" have nothing to do with ethics and everything to do with public image and marketing by advertising how "diverse" their employees are without mentioning that most of the are from international/boarding school with elite background who would have lived a very comfortable life regardless of their IB recruiting results. This is what we are asking banks to fix.
If you have a lawyer daddy you have a greater chance of bringing in business. Why do asian immigrants deserve extra help?
Yeah, the goal of the banks is to look better in the public image, they clearly don't care about actually helping people who grew up disadvantaged.
if u don’t like the content then don’t respond. posts that don’t get traction die and u won’t see them on trending/recent. getting triggered by similar posts is just going to cause them to circulate more. I honestly didn’t see those previous posts and ur decision to respond to this post just means u don’t know how these websites work.
didn’t succeed lmao I go to a good school and am first gen so I had 0 connections going into the process. ur prob just a commie
Yup. Basically how I feel. Rich white/blonde chicks get the best offers at my target. It’s laughable. These offers should be given to actual URM women.
If it can help you feel any better, in Europe the situation is even worse
is diversity recruiting even a thing in continental europe
It starts to be, but by Europe i mean also Brits, despite their "nice" Brexit, they are Europeans
For those interested, there's a book that details one person's HBS experience called Ahead of the Curve. In it, the author discusses the "tactics" that some of his classmates employed to minimize their (reported) income / assets to maximize financial aid. The lengths that people went to were extreme (to save $5-$10k a semester), but I imagine that "income-based diversity" would create a totally different animal.
I think First Generation College Student diversity is much more feasible and its highly correlated with income anyway.
so is race tho
For as much as recruits bitch about diversity programs letting sub-par talent get offers, I’ve never heard of any bankers complaining of sub-par performance of diversity hires on the desk?
Yes you have. There have been numerous instances of people mentioning diversity hires not being able to cut it and so leaving themselves after a year or two, or simply being low performers on the team. Check the other thread for many mentions of this
I have a friend who works at MS who said that the interns that get cut are normally the women/minorities so idk how true your statement is.
interns not FT
Of course there has. Know plenty of analysts who’ve noticed a giant gap in intelligence between diversity hires and people who recruited later on-cycle SA
I'm a diversity recruit so I guess I'll give you my perspective: 1. Yeah the process is abused by most people and the fact that white women are considered a minority is the most laughable thing on this planet and pretty sad, but it is what it is 2. I feel really bad for white and indian guys bro, like I actually do, there are so many smart ones at my non-target who get fucked over because they need the diversity recruitment and cannot get it; so they have to compete with Ivy kids unfairly. 3. I am in a bunch of chats and I've spoken to many diversity hires. In general what I've noticed is that the white women that use the diversity hire are generally really unqualified, while the actual minority women do very well for themselves in general (Asian women are incredibly hard working and the Black women in these programs are hard working as well and are trying to break the mold, albeit they all hold liberal sentiments) 4. In general, I would say that the split goes this way in the diversity hire pool: 50% are average in the competition and would not get a shot without the program, 30% highly qualified (probably did not need it), 20% super unqualified (only redeeming quality is filling in the quota). 5. I got into a total of 6 interview processes in my recruitment cycle (4 through minority programs), but my resume was strong and I spoke very well. Got an EB interview through pure networking and no minority thing; had no connections nor alumni there. 6. These programs are abusive yeah no doubt about it, but we only make up about 10% of the pool and truth be told, I think without the programs we would not get a look, so yeah it is essentially an easy in, but it's less because we are under-qualified and more because we have no connections. 7. Are there white guys without connections? Yeah, but there are more hispanics and blacks without connections. 8. In my view, poor White guys and poor Asians should DEFINITELY be included in these programs. 9. This might piss off some of you guys, but as an immigrant and first gen, I am just happy to be considered for these programs. I am grateful they exist and understand the overall situation with the tension they have caused. I know my place is what I am trying to say. I was not supposed to get the job I did and am thankful.
^SB'd. This is accurate
It sucks not to be hired even though you might be the most qualified. However, diversity hiring is good for corporations and helps people who have been systemically discriminated against for decades.
The reality is it is so much easier to get a job in finance if you are white. The hiring people are usually white and are more likely to hire someone who looks and sounds similar to themselves.
Diversity recruiting is sometimes challenging in finance because most minorities do not pursue jobs in finance. For whatever reason, black people and women prefer law over finance.
I support diversity recruitment but only if the applicant is qualified. Hiring an unqualified person is not good for the company or employee.
To an extent. They're not going to see a poor white Southerner or a recent Eastern European immigrant as "similar to themselves."
How about an educated poor white southerner?
How in the world is that Marxism?
This is the kind of logical fallacy that happens from very wrong and dangerous kind of "Associative thinking" that often causes bigotry in all political spectrum.
The "right-wing" bigots think "support diversity" -> "left -wing " -> "some left wingers are socialists" -> "some socialists are Marxists" -> "therefore supporters of diversity must be Marxists".
The "left-wing" bigots think "support free-market and small government" -> "must be a right-winger" -> "some right wingers are racist" -> "so supporters of free-market and small government must be racists".
I mean WTF. It makes 0 sense. We all need to use our brains.
Yes, diversity hiring in itself has a good purpose. But is it being done well? NO FREAKING WAY. People setting up these programs are either doing for PR reasons or don't fully understand what kind of diversity is good and how to actually promote diversity.
This is a typical logical fallacy that arises from confusing correlation with causation. More causal factors are - education level, exposure to finance in earlier life (either through friends or family connections), etc... Race is merely "correlated".There is a point to this.
If you're a poor white kid who grew up in a trailer park in Appalachia (or the equivalent Northern Irish ghetto for the UK), you're really are fucked because you're hated by all sides.
Rich whites think you're some dumb hillbilly and won't relate to you, and everyone else thinks you're just another privileged white kid. And in the end, you're the one out of a job. No wonder why so many people try lie and claim Native American heritage.
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Bruh.....
"All these made up university terms like "institutional racism" and "white privilege."
You have to be severely autistic not to recognize institutional racism as an actual thing.
Sling all the MS you want, it still wouldn't cure your severe case of autism. You have to be incredibly retarded to believe that "Institutional Racism" is just some made up university word.
When you say "They are all baseless," you lose all credibility you might have had when you began your shitty argument.
"Someone please explain to me." No one is going to fucking explain anything to you. You have two hands right? why don't you use them to sign up for a class or two on the subject before you spout verbal diarrhea. You're also on the internet, where you can conduct further research for free.
People like you that tend to bitch and complain about diversity recruiting are the same ones that don't want to acknowledge the problem it aims to solve in the very first place. Selective outrage is what you retards know how to do. Only bitch and moan when it affects you directly. The hypocrisy is outstanding. You could care less about the hurdles minorities have to face to get a job in high finance. This is why I can't take you clowns seriously. You're bitching and moaning that for once, you actually have to compete with minorities. Get your balls up. What a homo.
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