Is IB still considered a high paying job?
Given that my friends 2 years out of university working in data science are clearing 200K in cash (maximizing cash over equity) and analyst salary is 85/90/95 with first year associates making 150k (all in about 230ish)..
Is IB still considered a high paying job when you're working until 11pm on a good day, 2am per the norm, 6 days a week, and always on standby like a fireman?
What are some interesting exit ops? As a lot of us feel we have clearly joined the industry too late
The real question is: what do YOU consider as a high paying job?
All in $230? More like $300.
ok intern
230 not insane at GS lol
My understanding is that tech pay levels off after a few years and IB pay surpasses it after. So while tech has a higher floor, it also has a lower ceiling.
The typical ceiling is ~350-400k TC (though considerably more in recent years due to stock appreciation...). Seems high enough for most people, but yes it is true - unless you're Director you won't make past that usually
This is one thing I have never understood about Tech comp. Are Techies counting their capital gains in their TC? or are they getting capital gains on top of this? Also, I assume that there is some lock up periods to their options.
If you think for a second that an associate makes 230 all in you're out of your mind
Not far off at a lot of MMs - don't know if you saw EB associate comp data and think that street is closer to 2x that amount, but $230k isn't absurd.
First off not sure how many data scientists are making $200k right out of college. There aren’t that many other high paying jobs out there for an undergraduate degree aside from software engineering (requires actual hard skills). So naturally for people without any hard skills that don't want to go through grad school (law/med) its the best career path in terms of absolute compensation for the vast majority of people. Last but not least $90k coming right out of undergrad is a lot of money, don’t let WSO blind you, a lot of people would be more than happy to be making that and many industries pay less.
Also an associate at most BBs/EBs are clearing near $300k (esp at the EBs) so not sure where your figures are coming from
Friend was a Data scientist. Masters in stats. Think his intro base was 80k-90k starting ( in a western city think phoenix, salt lake, Denver) Don't know if there was bonus or not.
Associate 1 in the US made $150k base + $150k bonus + $50k sign-on = $350k and that's 3 years ago. Now banks increased base from what i hear to $175k, so new all-in comps should be ~$400k.
I know two data scientists and I doubt they make $200k.
Associates often make more than 230 but your comment is absurd. Why would you include the sign on bonus (50k) with a bonus you get a year and a half after starting?
A full year one associate will make 150 base + bonus from like 90-150. Everybody loves to point to the upside outliers like EBs but in reality an average yr. 1 total comp will fall between 250-300.
That being said, the upside is way higher in banking from VP+ along with the varied exits.
Mate I had a stint in the US and I made exactly what I wrote: $150 base + $150 bonus + $50 sign-on. What is your problem?
Do you get a signing bonus if you go A2A?
Depends on the bank, some do and some don't
data scientists do NOT make 200k on average. I know multiple masters educated data scientists and they make maybe six figures. Granted, if you go to MIT and dual major in CS and applied math, sure, maybe you can make six figures right off the bat. That is definitely not the norm. IB is still a very highly paid area. Even if data scientists were making 200k on average, IB would still be highly paid. Just because some people get paid a lot too, doesn't mean IB isn't well compensated.
depends where they work. most DS/A folks at the 100+ reputable established tech companies + pre-exit companies will absolutely be making $200k all-in at the junior to mid-level.
At the elite level, Facebook entry level hires make around 120K+10k+15k+40k stock = $185k and top EB entry level hires can also make around 95k+10k+80k = 185k. At a mediocre level, entry level software engineers make around $120k all in and entry level investment bankers make around $135k all in. I’d say investment banking is still a lucrative first jot. Definitely no longer the most lucrative/prestigious job as was the case in times past.
I won't say much other than your comp for entry level SWE at FB is totally dated and off
Not them, but can you provide updated info?
Keep in mind the way SWE calculate their comp is extremely inaccurate. I've seen people spit out the number $200K, but it includes shit like sign-on, relocation, and other one time payments. Stock grants also have to be refreshed, but no one talks about that. I have some older buddies who make less three years out than they did their first year out of undergrad because of their weak refreshers. This is coming from someone from a big-ish CS school.
Levels.fyi shows all-in for Facebook entry level SWE at 180k. I put down 185k according to direct info from one of my friends (Top 5 CS UG -> FB). I don't know if I was "totally dated and off" with my 3% deviance but apologies if I missed the mark.
To call 120k mediocre for entry level software engineering is ignorant at best. Having graduated from Michigan with a cs degree, 90%+ are not making over 120, without significant unplanned equity appreciation (assuming you even get equity at that stage outside of espp, 50%+ do not). The median was 100k cash comp.
Thanks for this insight. That was my best estimate from what I've seen from friends in tech. I'll defer to your judgment on this one. Still, it seems like IB can be considered a high-paying job.
What companies do you friends work at?
Troll post but I'll bite...
Don't make such ridiculous claims when databases like levels.fyi exist... just search "data scientist" and while there are SOME examples of people with 0 years experience clearing 200k (just barely) they're not "clearing it in cash" lmfao... almost every base is ~130-160k with the rest as sign on / RSUs. A vast majority of the data points on there (just search by companies, amazon, apple, google, facebook, etc.) clearing $250k all have 4-6 years of experience.
Per everyone's comments... an average associate 2/3 (4-5 years experience) is likely clearing 300k in comp. And those are kids ACTUALLY clearing that in cash... no 4 year vesting RSUs.
bait post, and yes
interesting thanks for the comments - im at a top bb and senior associates arent clearing 300k. the data scientist in reference are two friends at start-ups and not facebook (2 years out of college) so sample size is 2
How are you at a top BB and senior associates are not clearing 300K? Maybe not ASO1 but ASO3 surely you surpass 300K scale.
Maybe if you are GS with GS discount you won't clear, but normal BB should clear it (not too sure honestly as I'm in EB)
Even at GS, the discount shouldn't be that severe for ASO3's. $200k base + >50% bonus.
People often "anchor up" to a data point such as a top bucket associate or a top paying EB.
Sure ASO2/3 at average "street" paying firms get to *around* 300k.
ASO1s 150 + 95-125 bonus is more common. Pour through the salary pages on this website or talk to non-top bucket folks.
AO1 probably isn’t clearing $300 at a BB unless they are very, very good and the group had a great year. AO2 and AO3 are definitely getting there with the higher base.
friend at a MM made AO1 all in comp is going to be around 225K based on what he says. Let assume some pay bump for BB's probably 250k for AO1.
Have a buddy who is getting VP promote this year and hes thinking of quitting - he hasnt made 300k once during his time as an associate (upper-mid BB). Hes middle-lower of the pack but still getting that VP promote
This seems fishy to me. Not saying your buddy is wrong. but he has to be close to 300K. What product group?
premier group - it really made me depressed and want to start looking elsewhere. but dont see a reason for him to lie..?
Might of been a weaker bank...
Perhaps he's closer to 300K. Either way with the VP promote, he should be clearing 300K.
Objectively, yes.
Regardless of other high paying fields that exist, IB is still firmly an exceptionally high paying job at almost every step of the career journey.
Established tech cos are great for WLB to Annual Comp ratio + for super stars who don't plateau, very solid upside at the higher levels (G/FB equiv to L7 / L8). Pre-exit tech cos are great for potential equity upside + career growth opportunities but also have downside of lower realized Annual Comp. Neither have the predictability (plateauing risk / non-lockstep promo, stock price volatility affecting annual comp, etc) of IB over the ~12-15 years it takes to reach MD or some other senior role in a buyside exit that is more difficult to pull w/o banking exp (Partner in GE/PE/SM HF, PM in MMHF, etc) where you're looking st $1-3m a year floor.
Consulting can potentially compete but comp is lower on the path to MD equivalent (Partner) even though ascension speed is a bit faster. Ditto BigLaw, plus law school debt and the elongated track to Partner (more and more common to spend a chunk of time as non-equity / income partner with a comp ceiling of 500-600k).
Specialist Physician / Surgeon is a minimum 10-12+ year track from undergrad + hella loans. By the equiv age in banking you're making 4-5x+ more minimum vs the newly attending doc. Career longevity is A1 however and docs cum business owners or highly revered hospital specialists can haul in cash after a few years.
Corporate Management track by that age would see you at around a similar comp to a newly attending doc (low-end primary care, high end specialist / surgeon) as a Director but unless you're part of the crazy startup world or maybe PE PortCo world, you're looking at a long slog before the juicy comp opens up at VP / C-Suite.
Other fields like RE / VC have lower cash comp but solid upside in the form of promote / carry, though it'll be at least by your mid 30s before you start seeing significant checks from that by which point you'd be under-earning vs IB.
S&T also has lower cash comp until it meets rough parity at MD which can take a while as more and more people stay at the VP level for prolonged periods of time before anything opens up.
Arts / Sports / Entertainment / Creative biz (agents, managers, biz managers, producers, studio execs, TV execs, art dealers, auction house execs, etc) and the specialists within them (instagram influencers, streamers, athletes, artists, musicians, models, TV presenters, fashion designers, authors, lead actors, pro gamers, pro gamblers, directors, online vid content creators etc) have the upside but odds of success are massively stacked against you. Much the same with e.g. Sales or Recruiting.
Quant Finance is hella technically selective / niche. Physical Commods Trading is hella niche / not a linear path to a book.
Entrepreneurship could be all over the place.
Outside of the above, you're not coming anywhere near banking compensation. Most people across all ages, don't even sniff $100k a year. All of the above fields where outsized cash is successfully coming through represent 1% at most of the working age population. You would be insane to think that banking "doesn't pay well" when most folks are just trying to hit 6 figs, maybe at best $200k in their lifetime (even as college educated workers).
Ur asking a bunch of people in IB lol
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