I hear a lot that the only way that non-target can break in IB in ldn is by doing a master, as your application does not even get seen. is this true? if yes should i just apply for BO/MO until I do a master?
thank you.
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Currently interning at a lower tier BB and half of the intern class is from non-targets, with only 4 people from LSE/Oxbridge.
Pretty sure your definition of target (and complete lack of mentioning semi-targets) is what's wrong here.
There is absolutely 0 chance that your class is mostly non-targets.
You can apply for both. Nothing is stopping you other than your fear of rejection or if they restrict the amount of applications you can make. Of all the internships I applied for, Barclays had the strictest rule where you could only apply for one division.
Would suggest applying for Risk positions (esp Credit Risk). Almost everyone in a BB Front office role will be from a target or semi-target. Very rarely will you see people from non-target backgrounds at a BB SA role. Make sure you do MO, then apply for a masters at LSE/LBS
You’ll be surprised at the level of ‘real’ competition. If you’re good and have a very solid CV, target vs non target is a real non starter in most cases. A lot of target university students apply for internships purely because it’s good to have on your CV and don’t actually know what they want to do. If you can show a story of development/focus in your CV, you’ll be in the run. Obviously I’m making an assumption that when you say “non target”, you’re still attending a top 20 university for bulge brackets, top 30 for elsewhere and will have at least a high 2:1.
The problem more so is your competition is a lot of European students, who almost all have masters. Unless your masters/phd is in some advanced quantitative topic that is directly useful in the job, a masters degree does not make you automatically more able to do a job. HR and hiring managers know this.
I can’t stress this enough, the ability to network and be an intelligent, forward thinking, rounded and personable individual far outweighs your ability to do a process slightly more aptly at the start of your career. Obviously if you’re interested and involved you should excel at the start anyway.
Don’t forget, working at a company that isn’t as prestigious still provides a huge amount of opportunities, and remuneration can still be competitive. Personally, I’d rather go to a smaller pond of goldfish and aim to be a big name, than try and be a shark in a tank of piranhas. Again, if you’re good there’s literally nothing stopping you from jumping ship to wherever you want to go.
As soon as you’re in the industry, you’ll realise that even firms that apparently have no name on WSO are still recognised and known by HR/MD’s. WSO has an obsession with elitism and being better than someone else. The real world does not care as much.
Disclaimers: I’m a UK national with non-target undergrad and quasi-non-target masters. I think my masters probably helped me get through to HR but certainly had no bearing with the two global heads I interviewed with. I occasionally get the piss taken out of me for having an advanced degree, all in good jest. I do work in S&T which is less elite focussed as opposed to IB.
Thanks for this thoughtfull reply. I am not so focused on BB or big name my big emphasis is on culture as through networking I realised there can be a lot of dickhead in this world. Also as an international I need a place that would sponsor my visa and that obviously leave me with the big places everyone wants.
Wht bothers me, is when networking, they all go you have good experience, and this and that and you shouldnt have a problem getting interviews but it is completly another case when applying. Mind you people saying that all went to oxbridge
I go to a very shit uni ( it is deffo not top 30, we talking non -russel), I dont think anyone here even know who is GS, but my grades even at A level are aligned to all the applicants. just a matter of being unlucky and born poor.
It is not so much the knowledge I want to gain from the master but the ability to be actually considered a decent candidate by bank and be screened like others and wouldnot attend a master tbh if it is not a target. Like I have seen many of my friends CV and dont think I fall too far from them, though they got interviews.
Thing is I am also diversity, so the few times I got recommended by organisation I was able to land interviews and even good offers. So that is why I feel like the master will work for me.
People are really reaching on the definition of non-target here.. Realistically, true non-targets have essentially 0 chance of getting shortlisted for FO jobs in London. That's just plain reality. Networking doesn't help as much here as it does in the US where non-targets regularly break into banking.
I'd focus on applying to MO/BO positions OP and try to see if you can network with some of the folks in the FO divisions once you're in. Maybe throw in a couple of hail mary apps for FO here and there but it would be kind of a waste of time to solely focus on those. Also apply to other interesting internship programs in other industries along side your applications to banks.
Go to move honestly though is to aim for the big4, get the ACA and try to maneuver into banking (lots of firms hire big4 ACA newly qualifieds). Maybe try to lateral into the FDD or Valuations group post-qual (even better if you can get straight into one out of uni).
Alternatively, get good grades and aim for a target masters program and recruit from there.
It's a good point. I'd rather break it down to three subsets.
1) Targets: Uni's where recruiters actively host visiting days. Probably limited to Oxbridge/Wawrick/LSE, and a literal couple of others. 2) 0% chance non-targets: places like Hull, Bournemouth (though good for MO/BO JPM), Bradford, Brighton etc 3) Decent enough, with a chance if individual suits: Manchester, Birmingham, Kent, Reading etc. (some limited to the business schools of the uni more so than a generic uni-wide)
For IB, 3) is probably a bit more like the top half of the list (not the list of 4 I provided) only if doing IB.
This list is retarded - I am not surprised you went to non-target.
Completely agree - I thought on WSO we can be honest about this kind of thing.
I would rather off myself than do Audits at KPMG for 3 yrs, but it is not a bad plan B for sure.
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