Is my American Dream Over?
Hello You Great Folks,
I have spent the entire last decade working on my profile in a developing country and setting myself up to work on Wall Street. Now that I have an admit from a Top 20 US BSchool, I see that the H1B Visa has become a big issue and it is causing me lot of nervousness. I really love American people , culture and way of living and opportunities in America-hence my desire to move to the US. . I will be investing a lifetime of my savings to make this move. Here are some of my questions.
- How hard is it for an international to get into IB in the current environment?
- Are BB Banks still sponsoring internationals? Which ones are not sponsoring?
- What are some of the tips you can share so that I can work on to make myself a strong candidate?
Thanks Guys.
The first thing you need to do is use the search bar. The rest should be self-explanatory.
My Dear friend-the answers I am looking for are not available unfortunately since there is some noise around the H1B visa everyday. Internationals like myself who want to pursue MBA in the US are very anxious as we are committing a lifetime of savings and effort into this. Sitting here, it is hard to gauge what is going on in the USA. So, perspectives from internationals and domestic students who are on the ground might be very helpful.
Retake the GMAT and get into an MBA business schools">M7 school or NYU or Cornell. That's your best bet.
Thanks man!
You were just admitted, so your dream isn't over - it is just starting.
Generally speaking, for internationals the job chances in the US dramatically increase with a visa or GC. As a student, you are eligible for both CPT and OPT, depending on which major you have. STEM has up to 3 years OPT (open work permit with a few exceptions like gov jobs). During these stints an employer can get to know you and see how/if they'll sponsor you for other visa or the GC.
During/afterwards you could either apply for US jobs and get sponsored for the H1b (difficult + lottery), marry a US citizen (K, relatively quick, 12-18 months), start abroad with a company (at home) and then get transferred (L, relatively easy) or find a business that has something like an E visa (treaty trader/investor, or executive manager visa). In rare cases you would qualify for NIW/O visa, if you are extraordinary. I will skip all the religious, humanitarian, asylum or other gov visas. There are some grey areas in the US immigration system which can be used (especially for treaty nations) but it depends on what exactly the goal would be.
The other visa would be the Diversity Lottery Visa (Green Card Lottery), you can participate if you are from countries where low amount of immigration comes from and with a lot of luck you might win a green card! The odds are really, really low though and I wouldn't want to build a future on this path, I know too many who have been trying for 15+ years. Plus the lottery is always at risk of getting canned (next DV lottery starts this October!).
The easiest way should be the marriage route because many steps can be skipped, most likely to succeed after that could be L/E (internal transfer). If you don't want to get married you could get a good job in your country (BB equivalent) and have them transfer you internally to a location where they have an office. You can still apply for jobs at BB in the US, but chances are depending on a variety of aspects.
Thank you my friend Gumball-really appreciate it. Would you mind answering a couple of follow up questions I have?
Very generally speaking, an international candidate faces complex complications when applying/studying in the US: - different requirements to apply/enroll; missing documents, translations, other requirements for getting into the school. Among other reasons also a different "academic culture" in their home country. - cost; living and studying in the US is a very costly adventure, no matter how you look at it. When educating just one child within a family includes spending >100K $US the situation could be very difficult (while facing the issue that a degree in the home country might be entirely free or almost free, like in some European countries). - potential lack of ROI; after getting your education an international needs to secure CPT/OPT/H1b/GC-EAD - this is an incredibly difficult journey and only the absolute best and the luckiest candidates will make it. In the worst case, the international has to go back to the home country even after all the trouble, effort and costs that were incurred.
I know UBS and Citi are not very friendly towards internationals. Many of the EBs would consider internationals, namely banks like Evercore, Moelis, and Lazard.
Thanks Man-really appreciate it. Any insights into other BBs?
I know Goldman and JPM are pretty receptive. Depending on the office, CS also hires internationals. Not sure about BAML, MS, or DB.
i'm canadian and just got an SA offer with Citi NYC
Congrats! Is this for the Associate position? Also which Bschool did you go to and how hard is it for internationals to land an Associate gig with BB/EB in the current environment? Thanks.
People have said it already, but to summarize
Some BB and most boutiques don’t recruit international. Even those who do privately cap the number because H1B is getting tougher and it’s hard to keep sending people to Hong Kong or London when visa issues come up
Recruiting for banking is easy and hard. There is lesser interest in banking than consulting, but banks are also more selective in US from social for perspective. Most recruiting is done through a long courting and fit is a big issue - regardless of school. Internationals (Indian, Asian, South American, European, Russian - whatever) suffer here. There is no way around it. There is no way to fix it. Some get through but a good portion doesn’t. Some luck into consulting. Lot end up in Amazon or Microsoft or home country.
Combined with first bullet - with visa and fit, there is little reason to go after internationals you’ll find decent number of internationals in banks now. Think it was bit different say 5/10 years back and you’ll still find a good portion at upper level (MD and up) that are international so nothing says they can’t do well. They are in bulge brackets and boutiques. But doesn’t mean now they’ll suddenly go heavy w internationals you’ll probably annoy people with your question / comment style here
just from odds perspective you’ll have a hard time breaking in from UNC. Think there are 4-5 banks that do on campus? Most will go after domestic students first. You are out of luck with Wells Fargo. Boutiques don’t go. Probably too competitive at GS, JPM, MS. That leaves you with Citi, BAML, CS, DB, Barclays, UBS and RBC. Not sure how many comes on campus or how many hires from UNC for how many roles - and half of those places are struggling
you are old for MBA associate. I know maybe one person who did 10 years pre MBA? Domestic and international alike 4 - 5 years is the norm
So is your dream over? Idk - dreams aren’t supposed to realistic. But as someone said - if you wanted us to confirm that spending $250K will help, no one will put their money to it. Never met you or know nothing abt you so me or others can’t really say anything beyond above.
But put it this way - 2/3 of the associates don’t survive to make VP. So the payback has to be more than just doing banking. Doing other stuff isn’t that bad either.
Thank you Sir-really appreciate your detailed perspective! While I agree with most of the points that you made, I believe some of the points are open to debate.
Again-Thanks for your time and inputs.
So what else do you want? You’ve asked about these stuff for couple of months now and people told you what it is. You seem to be seeking confirmation bias but there is no skin in game for rest of us. If you want it, go ahead and try it and see what happens. Calling it a dream or whatever doesn’t change anything. EOD we all think we are special or it’ll be different for us, and maybe it’ll be - we don’t know that. Once you start school, ask second years how you can leverage your school network to get whatever you want vs try to fullproof it a year before recruiting cycle even begins.
Wolf,
Having just seen many of my classmates at a 15-20 B-School have a hard time landing a job after graduation, I would seriously consider Oddy's advice. Even when it seems like he's not being nice.
Fact is, you don't know what the markets are going to be like when you graduate in 2+ years.
Consider the risks first.
Thanks Steve-really appreciate it. I will certainly consider what you and everyone else said here.
I am being nice. By trying to stop wolfofnorthpartkstreet from wasting 250k of his parents money
"seems like".
I think you're doing the right thing.
I just graduated from a business school that is higher ranked than UNC and sends over 50 people to banks each year. In my class there were literally 0 people from India that successfully got banking jobs in the U.S. (and several tried).
Based on your posts on this site, I can already tell that you do not have the social skills to be one of the few MBA students from India who breaks into banking. As others have mentioned, there are other options for U.S. employment, the students in my class from India did fine in general management rotational programs at large F500 companies and tech (followed by consulting, which was more competitive).
Anyways, it sucks but it is what it is. You have plenty of responses confirming the same themes, so now decide if you want to take the risk. Just go into it with your eyes open and with realistic expectations.
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