Which SWFs is the best?
Any thoughts on SWFs (Investment team) as a place to work? Please also state which SWFs. Appreciate comments on the following:
1) Politics and progression
2) Salary and benefits
3) Work scope and performances
4) How hard to get in and process?
5) Exit opportunities and how are various SWFs regarded
6) Which SWFs do you think is good?
Thanks!
bump, I'd be very interested to hear anyone's comments on this. It's a little-explored subject
Working at SWF (Originally Posted: 07/17/2014)
Hi everyone, been on here for a while and finally decided to post.
I know this is investment banking forum but I hoped some people might have experience with SWFs. It seems like I will receive an offer from one of the Middle Eastern SWFs in their London office (personal connections thanks to networking). I have graduated from the Uni couple of weeks ago.
I just wanted to ask if anyone have any knowledge on what is like to work at SWFs in the West? What is work like, pay, etc? As far as I am aware there not much to be said about exit opp as it seems SWF itself is an exit pop. Anything else you guys could add like advice etc.
by the way, if this is not the forum to ask, anyone can recommend the more appropriate one?
thanks
If the SWF offer is from either CICC or Temasek I'd take it!
SWF vs. BB IBD (Originally Posted: 09/12/2011)
Hi, I have a full time offer from both a BB IBD and am close to getting a SWF offer in Asia, wondering which one to choose. Personally, I heard that the pay at SWF at entry level is lower compared to IBD, and the exit opps to bb IBD/ BB PE is almost non-existent. However, given that I am more interested in doing PE and BB IBD to me is also kind of spring board to a BB PE in the future, I am currently leaning towards the BB IBD offer. Could anyone share some of your opinion? Thanks a lot!!
What position? Investment analyst or something comparable? Anyway, interested in this as well.
is sovereign wealth fund worth it? (Originally Posted: 09/28/2008)
I'm a non-US citizen, and had several final interviews with BB firms. but after a few faliures, i've gotten a job at a local IB in my country. all of sudden, i got an offer from my country's sovereign wealth fund. but it's investment strategy team, which means research dept. should i accept the offer? my ultimate goal is still Banking/PE/HF is SWF experience or name value worth it?
The title of this thread got me really excited.
SWFs for business school (Originally Posted: 06/09/2014)
All,
I posted this in the banking forum but maybe this is a better place. Does anyone know if working at a sovereign wealth fund (e.g. ADIA, GIC, Temasek, KIA) would look good for business school applications? How would it compare to PE or banking? Thanks
Singapore?
bump
Sovereign Wealth Funds (Originally Posted: 05/18/2010)
To the experienced monkeys:
When looking at buyside opps, have you come across SWFs (ADIA, GIC, KIA, CIC, QIA, OIF, NSRF etc.)? Recently at lot of these funds have been making fairly large investments on their own and I was wondering if you thought this would continue (i.e. QIA bought Harrods, ADIA $7.5B investment into Citi etc.)
Since they are quasi-government orgs, is the comp lower?
Any info would be great.
Looks really bad.
SWFs for business school? (Originally Posted: 06/09/2014)
All,
Does anyone know if working at a sovereign wealth fund (e.g. ADIA, GIC, Temasek, KIA) would look good for business school applications? How would it compare to PE or banking? Thanks!
Bump. Any opinions on this?
Sovereign Wealth Fund (Originally Posted: 03/01/2016)
What are the exit opportunities for an entry level position in the Real Estate group at one of the more active, established SWFs (ADIA, GIC, KIA, etc.)? I would eventually like to exit to a large REPE.
SWF to B-School Chances (Originally Posted: 04/19/2015)
Hi Guys,
Have looked through the forums for some insight on the topic, but couldn't find too much that would clarify some queries i have.
As the title suggests, i have been at my current employer (a SWF) in a direct investments role for close to a year post-graduation (from undergrad), and have always considered a stint in B-school to shift into general management/consulting roles post-mba.
Am generally open to M7 schools and also European MBAs - supposing all other factors besides work experience do not preclude my candidacy, how should i best position myself for B-school apps? Did a quick check from linkedin filtering for my firm, turns out that my firm seems more active as a post-mba recruiter than as a pre-mba feeder.
On that note, i guess the larger question would be how work experience at SWFs is perceived by adcoms? Am also open to moving onto a development finance organisation (e.g. ADB, IFC) before applying to B-school if that should help, as i'm also interested in the area.
Any insight would be most appreciated, thanks guys!
Disclosure: Am an international candidate who has not studied in the US
Excellent, I would think, all other things being equal. SWFs are such an important part of the global economy today and still little known, that I think you would be a very interesting candidate. You do have to tell your story well though, so people understand what you've done and the organization in which you've worked.
bump
Working at SWFs (Originally Posted: 07/17/2014)
Hi everyone, been on here for a while and finally decided to post.
I know this is investment banking forum but I hoped some people might have experience with SWFs. It seems like I will receive an offer from one of the Middle Eastern SWFs in their London office (personal connections thanks to networking). I have graduated from the Uni couple of weeks ago.
I just wanted to ask if anyone have any knowledge on what is like to work at SWFs in the West? What is work like, pay, etc? As far as I am aware there not much to be said about exit opp as it seems SWF itself is an exit pop. Anything else you guys could add like advice etc.
by the way, if this is not the forum to ask, anyone can recommend the more appropriate one?
thanks
investment analyst
Thanks for the reply! Yea i would most probably concur with the different angle i would be approaching B-school apps from, just seems slightly unnerving at this juncture not to chance upon too many candidates who have made a jump to an mba, even though the IFC seems like a viable link bridge given their 2 year investment analyst programme. Just curious, is an mba within your future plans as well?
My bad, I got it mixed up with CIC (China Investment Corp) :">
if it is in fact singapore, how much are they offering? i'm singaporean myself and quite curious to know. thanks.
Is SWF a sovereign wealth fund? For some reason, and maybe this is generational, I always think of it as an acronym for a personals ad. http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=SWF
Back to seriousness, what are you really doing at the fund, and why would you be interested in leaving to go to World Bank type organization when you are getting really good exposure for the moment?
GIC is relatively benign (enlightened despot and all) and plays with the big boys. good luck getting a job there though.
realistically this is going to depend on your country of origin/where you have connections.
Does SWFs (especially SIngapore), have a very high preference for SIngapore nationals? I would assume so right?
Sure it will look good. Vs. PE or banking will probably depend on your responsibilities etc.
Most SWFs like to co-invest with PE funds, which almost makes a SWF look like a FoF. Some exceptions (such as Temasek) do exist but this almost seems to be the norm. Obv, it translates to lower comp and limited career growth / learning opportunities.
Having said that, a lot of SWFs are now increasingly investing in the direct route, especially after the credit crisis. Some of them are co-investing just to learn the tricks of the trade from PE funds and/or expand to emerging markets.
bump
Hi Betsy,
Thanks for your response! Yes, SWF does refer to a sovereign wealth fund haha.
In my current role i primarily conduct financial analysis of investment targets within specified sector focuses, anywhere between a minority to controlling stake - the usual due diligence, asset monitoring and financial modelling applies, but for private enterprises.
Part of why i am interested in development finance organisations would be the different nature of work involved, given that projects are likely more infrastructure-oriented, and the need to scale up basic facilities for developing countries. The opportunity to be based overseas appeals greatly to me as well, especially in a whole slew of developing markets.
On the larger picture, I would like to transition out of finance within 2 - 4 years, with b-school as the stepping stone. Can definitely foresee myself staying at my current employer, but would be willing to pursue opportunities in development finance organisations both out of interest and for the added push to differentiate myself if necessary.
From your experience, have you ever encountered candidates from SWF backgrounds, and if so, how were their profiles generally perceived by adcoms to your knowledge? Would love to get your opinion on this should you have any insight. Thanks Betsy!
Personally, I'd take the single white female
It looks amazing to be honest. I know people who were at GIC/Temasek and ended up at H/S/W. A government job with private sector chops - what's not to like ?
this is the best job in the market. Grab it with both hands and run into the sunset.
I've dealt with a few SWFs from different parts of the world and have ex-colleagues at SWFs currently.
SWFs are active in my sector internationally. I'll compare them mostly to the buyside (PE/HFs/IM). It is very hard to generalise as the term covers many different kinds of institution (Norway's Oil Fund to China's foreign currency reserves, and from the Saudi Arabian Monetary Agency to Canada's CPPIB). Some countries have more than one entity that would fall under "a" definition of Sovereign Wealth Fund.
Big Picture Big picture way to think about SWFs as a whole is that they are similar to Institutional Investors (i.e. Endowments & Pension funds) but with different liability structures due to politics. So generally speaking the pay, culture, performance orientation, and entry/exit ops are closer to those than to investment banks, private equity firms & hedge funds or large investment managers like Wellington/PIMCO... There are enough exceptions to make this not very meaningful though, as some have groups that are active investors, or are set up like holding companies/conglomerates that are more autonomous, while others are closer to a large family office.
Short version: You are the client.
The following is a generalisation. Do NOT take this as definitive for every SWF as they differ MORE among one another than the bulge bracket banks do between themselves.
1) Politics and progression - Differs from institution to institution. Generally matters less at the junior levels, more as your seniority increases. At the very top level it's entirely political. - At the more senior management levels (senior MDs, group heads, CIO, etc...) factors like your nationality become important. If you aren't a national, it is tougher to get on committees (in some cases impossible) and you could be replaced by a up an coming national for promotions. - Many SWFs are young, so you still see a lot of international talent at relatively senior roles. However, if you look at the older SWFs globally (e.g. Kuwait Investment Authority, Canada's CDPQ etc...) you will find that nationals make up an increasingly larger % of the the key decision making roles as time passes by through internal development and external hiring and will set the general strategy. You see this trend even in emerging markets. - Some deals will happen for political, strategic or other reasons that aren't related to making higher returns. You need to be comfortable with this idea, but to be honest, these are similar to many deals large corporations do for empire building, ego or during boom times. - Some SWFs have similar cultures closer to large institutional fund managers than to stodgy pension funds.
2) Salary and benefits - Differs widely. Some pay poorly, others pay very well especially on the benefits side. If they recruit experienced VPs from investment banks and investment managers, then expect pay/benefits to be good. If not, ask around. - At the senior levels can be as lucrative as any large corporation. - Don't expect carried interest or performance related bonuses in the same way as other buyside / PE / HFs, etc... - The hours and vacation time can be phenomenal at some SWFs. - Job security at the more established/boring SWFs is very good. - Do you like having Goldman VPs kissing your ass? You will be the client... for some this ego boost is worth all the money in the world. It's not for me though.
3) Work scope and performances - Depends on the actual SWF and the group you are in. - Most roles will be those of an LP type investor, e.g. asset allocation, fund manager selection, maybe co-investments. - Other roles are more direct investing and are structured more along the lines of a large investment manager. Some SWF manage certain strategies or asset classes internally. For other SWFs that are more like conglomerates your role will be similar to an internal M&A team at a large corporation. - Sometimes you will have a strategic transactions group for an SWF that works on big / special deals or on strategy. - Also, there are lots of portfolio management roles relating to looking after the companies / assets that are in the SWF. - Some SWFs have lean teams with lots of capital/deal-flow whereas others are more bureaucratic. Hard to generalise. - Despite the media rhetoric, SWFs generally actively AVOID having to make activist, hostile or even controlling investments. This is one of the reasons why they co-invest with other private sector investment managers/funds
4) How hard to get in and process? - Generally pretty difficult for non-national undergraduates with no relevant experience. Some do offer internships to people at undergrad and business school. - SWFs generally love bulge bracket sell side background in their target markets. Similarly they like reputable investment management backgrounds. - Recruiters and head-hunters are useful. - Networking & relationship matter a lot (not sure about cold calling, but referrals work).
5) Exit opportunities and how are various SWFs regarded - Some would argue that SWFs are the exit ops... - There aren't that many standard "exit ops" at the junior/mid level rather you lateral into another institutional investor with a similar strategy / market / asset class. - At the higher level you retire, go into other business or become an advisor to either the SWFs or to people trying to sell to / access SWFs. - Generally the more Western SWFs will be perceived as being more reputable for cultural reasons alone. However the older SWFs like KIA, GIC, Temasek, etc... are quite reputable. - The issue with exit opportunities is that you don't have the investing track record visibility that PE/HFs/IM has, nor do you have a book of clients apart from serving your current SWF. It makes you harder to place.
6) Which SWFs do you think is good? - Hard to say. - To work for, I would probably go for one of the mores established ones that also pays well. It would have to be a country that you would want to commit to living in for several years, so a lot of personal/lifestyle issues come into this. I would much prefer the private sector though, but it's a personal choice. - As investors, many of them don't disclose their portfolios / track records so it's difficult to assess. Some are also relatively new, so will have to give them a decade to assess performance.
Ethical considerations - Some people might have ethical considerations re legitimacy of certain SWFs... most people don't care as long as they're getting paid well, and seriously... look who's talking? (funny how that sentence could apply to nearly anyone)
For a quick overview on SWFs, check this out:
http://www.youtube.com/embed/0Y4oly7H3UE?rel=0
What role? That's the driving factor. Normally, I would say its good to have investment banking and / or private equity experience before doing it, but it doesn't look like there is a choice, and a lot depends on the role you play and the specific fund as its very hard to generalize.
investment analyst and yes I have no choice so was trying to understand where I am going lol
@wannabeaballer
SB for wit
For the OP, let's hear more about the context of the question. Just because you worked for Temasek doesn't mean you get into business school.
Are you considering joining a Sovereign Wealth Fund? What kind of job would you do? Do you expect to be an analyst? Perhaps that would be interesting to a business school, particularly if you had some influence on the direction of the portfolio on which you were working.
There's always much more to the story; tell us more so this community can give you some valid input.
I second Mack.
Is the BB IBD in Asia as well?
For the SWF, if it's something like Temasek and you get to join their direct PE group, then that would be a pretty attractive option and worth looking at. If it's a rotational and you have no control over which group you would wind up in, then BB IBD is a much safer bet.
With the BB IBD in Asia, you'll build up good experience and should be fairly marketable to PE opportunities, provided that you know mandarin, as majority of PE shops in Asia are run on China based deals these days. But from my understanding, PE exits are the not the same as in US - that is, they don't follow a formal process where during a certain time of year all the big and mid-sized shops go looking for newbie Associates. In Asia, the hiring is less organized and more on a as-needed basis. Also, a lot of people seem to stay in banking rather than move in Asia.
You should look up the thread 'Hong Kong Route' to get an idea. I know you may not be based in HK, but it does give some details on PE recruiting in Asia.
GIC is good...I have worked with a few former GIC guys and they generally are very smart and like to take alot of risk.
thanks for the advices. i think i should grab it. the only thing still bothering me is wherther i can go to the banking after buy-side research analyst maybe i should take an mba cource later
hungryman. i havent negotated the salary yet. i just heard from an insider in advance that i will get offered
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