Is the general public retarded or am I?

Mr. Cheese:

For $20 bucks I know a guy down on Lincoln and west that can get you an authentic birth certificate from any country. Premium prices for USA and Switzerland though

gop85:

You're saying BECAUSE he's president he must have been born in the US. You have it backwards. People want to see a birth certificate because he needs to be a citizen to legally be president.

lol as opposed to illegally being the president of the United States?

txjustin:

I personally think he was born here. I don't see why it's so hard for him to show is original long form BC?

Because I hope we don't have that giant of a beef curtain flapping vagina for a president that he would start showing all of his personal business to have some jimbob in buttfucksville go to bed a happier man.

I'm sure he had to present his BC before registering for the swearing in and whatnot.

txjustin:

UFO, what do you align yourself with politically?

Do you think the CIA didn't check up on this guy before he ran? C'mon dude, the whole point of something grassroots like the tea party is that people are supposed to be thinking for themselves, not signing up for some mindless fanaticism.....

CaptK:

I don't believe he was born elsewhere (well really, I choose not to even engage in the argument, since it's irrelevant - he's already president). However, gop85 is right on and your argument is kind of ridiculous. Are you really saying that because he is president, therefore he must have been born in the United States? As though it is totally, physically impossible for a person to be elected if they are not a natural born citizen? That's like me saying that because a person is rich, they must have won the lottery. Obviously that is ridiculous, since it is logically possible to become rich without winning the lottery.

The whole point of the "birther" argument is that they claim in reality he was not born in the United States, and thus was elected illegally, serves in violation of the Constitution, and should be removed from office.

You need a course in basic logic.

I agree with your arguments, but I also find it ridiculous that for arguably the most powerful man in the world, they didn't do a background check to make sure he fit all of the criteria to become president...

PTS:

The entire argument is based off the fact that he has yet to prove he was born here. IMO he is the one feeding the movement by not just publishing his birth certificate and spending millions on lawyers to defend him from having to show it (making people believe he doesnt have it)

Why are people not arguing that he isn't 35 yet? It could be a Benjamin Button type deal, you never know

PTS:

The entire argument is based off the fact that he has yet to prove he was born here. IMO he is the one feeding the movement by not just publishing his birth certificate and spending millions on lawyers to defend him from having to show it (making people believe he doesnt have it)

Nobama88:

OP, you are an idiot.

The argument for the birther movement is pretty simple.

President wont show his birth certificate. President spends millions to keep from showing it. Governor of Hawaii was pretty gunhoe about making it his duty to dig up the President's birth certificate, but after a few months he announced that he would not be showing the President's birth certificate.

Why the hell wont the President just show his birth certificate? That is what I am really lost about. If I had money, I would bet he is a citizen. Just do not undertand why the hell he wont show it. Maybe its to fuel the fire and help make a better case for the tea party extremism.

Can you show me a reputable source that shows he has spent millions to keep this issue hidden? I've looked but couldn't find one.

ModusOperandi:

And why does he have to address every ridiculous claim (e.g. he is a terrorist, he is a Muslim, he hired people to blow the BP rig, etc)? Once he addresses this claim, another crazy one will come up.

This is also preposterous, as is the person above who said "not every president has to show their birth certificate." First of all, there are no other presidents who would not have met the requirements to be president as they were all born to two American citizens and grew up in American territory. It was never potentially an issue for other presidents.

Second, there is a big difference between attacks like "he's a socialist," or "he's a terrorist" (which they were saying about Bush as well, btw), and the elusive facts surrounding the mystery regarding his place of birth which would technically disqualify him from legally serving as POTUS if proven not to meet certain standards as stated by law.

Edmundo Braverman:

Just to clear up something the OPs wrong about: no one born abroad can be President, even if both their parents are American citizens and they are therefore automatically an American citizen. The only reason McCain got a pass on the Panama thing was that the Canal Zone was a U.S. territory when he was born there.

Incidentally, I think it's a pretty stupid rule and the U.S. shouldn't be doing anything more than they already are to narrow the talent pool for that particular office. When George W. Bush is the best you can do for eight fucking years, it's time to cast a wider net.

And I'd probably vote for Arnold.

You sure? I'm pretty sure if you have two Americans that went on vacation to Canada (one of whom is pregnant) and she had a baby while on vacation for whatever reason, the kid would still be eligible. I could be wrong though.

txjustin:

Seems to me the OP is the retard.

That's fine that you think I'm a retard for thinking the birther argument is kind of absurd. But I really don't see much validity in their claims is all I'm saying

TheKing:

1.) Obama hasn't spent millions stopping the release of his birth certificate

2.) Do you really think Hillary would not have known if he wasn't a citizen? She was willing to do just about anything to stop him from winning the nomination

3.) People (idiots) believe he's a foreigner / secret muslim / sleeper cell terrorist because they want simple explanations and an easy villain to point to as the source of their problems. Also, because of all of the dog whistle type language used by the far right. Whenever someone like Boehner or whoever else is asked if Obama is a Christian, the answer is never "yes he is," it's always "I take him at his word." Shit like that.

The best part, though, is when you realize how frenzied people that HATE Obama are. They simultaneously complain that he went to an anti-American Church, is a secret muslim (already contradictory), is foreign born, wants to destroy our country and have the terrorists win (despite fighting two wars overseas, conducting bombing runs in Yemen and Pakistan, and still using Gitmo.) These people need to get put on a boat and have it blown up.

There will always be rhetoric about every president. President Bush received some of the sickest and, I think you would agree, most unjustified personal attacks of any political leader in recent history. Obama is now getting a taste of that as well. I think we, sadly, expect that during this age of electronic media.

What I don't understand is how you are able to confuse ad-hominem character attacks by vicious zealots (which both sides are equally guilty of), and certain questionable facts about the man which are not, in and of themselves, character attacks but could lead people to believe that he is of bad character.

Example: "Obama is a terrorist" - clearly a character attack and fringe statement by those that have a deep-seeded hatred for him. Compare with: "Obama is associated with an anti-American church" - this is not a character attack, but, is instead, a truth concerning the nature of Reverend Wright's church of which Obama was associated with. However, the Left likes to file this kind of statement away under "crazy zealot hatred" because it is an inconvenient truth that may say something about his character. The issue regarding his place of birth is similarly a legitimate concern concerning the very questionable and, on his part, secretive nature of his background and citizenship. This has nothing to do with character assassination or "hatred" and is very much a question for those who wish to respect the integrity of the laws of the United States regarding eligibility to serve in certain political offices. Obviously, those who hate Obama and resort to attacks would be quicker to point this inconvenient fact out than others (as they will use every tool at their disposal to de-legitimize him,) however that, in and of itself, does not disqualify this from being a legitimate issue that should concern you as much as it concerns me and as much as it concerns those who hate him.

n

TheKing:

Rebel. This is not just ad hominem attacks like some on the far left made about Bush. This isn't just a fringe issue when the following has been polled (and grown over time): (note that the text in parentheses is my own commentary)

** 63 percent of Republicans believe Obama is a socialist (despite cutting taxes and extending the Bush tax cuts)

** 68 percent believe gay couples shouldn’t receive any state or federal benefits (small government at work!)

** 73 percent don’t want to allow openly gay men and women to teach in public schools (more small government at work)

** 76 percent believe marriages aren’t equal partnerships and that men are the heads of households

** 53 percent believe former Alaska Gov. Sarah Palin is more qualified to be president than Obama (despite the fact that she quit halfway through her term as governor and Obama is ACTUALLY the President and has been for two years)

** 39 percent believe Obama should be impeached (for what, exactly?)

** 36 percent believe Obama was not born in the United States (36% is far from the far right fringe)

** 24 percent believe Obama wants "the terrorists to win” (Somehow they think this despite wars in Iraq, Afghanistan, increased bombing runs TARGETING TERRORISTS in Pakistan and Yemen, keeping Gitmo open, etc. If he wants the terrorists to win, I'm pretty sure he's doing a shitty job)

** 23 percent believe that their state should secede from the United States (no comment)

But, yeah, just like the views people held on Bush. Just a few ad hominem attacks.

Source please. Not doubting, just curious of the source.

txjustin:

McCain isn't the President.

TheKing:

I also get a huge kick out of guys like Glenn Beck calling Obama a racist with a "deep seeded hatred of white people" while Rush Limbaugh constantly claims that Obama is "really half-black, more of a white guy. Who even considers Obama black?" It's just laughable.

The only reason the birther issue stays anywhere near the forefront is because of the ridiculous checklist any Republican candidate needs to go through to win a primary. They are all beholden to a base that is filled with fuckign lunatics. If you have any moderate view points (social or otherwise) you are a RINO. Great.

Now you have entered the realm of fringe ad-hominem attacks on an entire people that share a common political philosophy. Thank you.

TheKing:

http://www.citybeat.com/cincinnati/blog-1173-gop-poll-is-revealing.html

Here's another poll with some fun information:

http://www.harrisinteractive.com/NewsRoom/HarrisPolls/tabid/447/ctl/Rea…

These are some of the results of The Harris Poll of 2,320 adults surveyed online between March 1 and 8, 2010 by Harris Interactive.

The actual percentages of adults who believe these things are true are as follows:

* He is a socialist (40%)
* He wants to take away Americans' right to own guns (38%)
* He is a Muslim (32%)
* He wants to turn over the sovereignty of the United States to a one world government (29%)
* He has done many things that are unconstitutional (29%)
* He resents America's heritage (27%)
* He does what Wall Street and the bankers tell him to do (27%)
* He was not born in the United States and so is not eligible to be president (25%)
* He is a domestic enemy that the U.S. Constitutions speaks of (25%)
* He is a racist (23%)
* He is anti-American (23%)
* He wants to use an economic collapse or terrorist attack as an excuse to take dictatorial powers (23%)
* He is doing many of the things that Hitler did (20%)
* He may be the Anti-Christ (14%)
* He wants the terrorists to win (13%)

What Republicans, Democrats and Independents think

There are – no surprise here – huge differences between what Republicans and Democrats believe. Majorities of Republicans believe that President Obama:

* Is a socialist (67%)
* Wants to take away Americans' right to own guns (61%)
* Is a Muslim (57%)
* Wants to turn over the sovereignty of the United States to a one world government (51%); and
* Has done many things that are unconstitutional (55%).

Also large numbers of Republicans also believe that President Obama:

* Resents America's heritage (47%)
* Does what Wall Street and the bankers tell him to do (40%)
* Was not born in the United States and so is not eligible to be president (45%)
* Is the "domestic enemy that the U.S. Constitution speaks of" (45%)
* Is a racist (42%)
* Want to use an economic collapse or terrorist attack as an excuse to take dictatorial powers (41%)
* Is doing many of the things that Hitler did (38%).

Even more remarkable perhaps, fully 24% of Republicans believe that "he may be the Anti-Christ" and 22% believe "he wants the terrorists to win."

You have completely missed the point, go back and reread my post. Again, nobody is talking about the nature of ad-hominem attacks and whether or not they are out of control. We are talking about Obama's background and the nature of his eligibility to become president which does not qualify as an ad-hominem attack, despite the fact that those who attack him may also point it out as well. If you respect the integrity of American law, this issue should concern you as much as it concerns me.

TheKing:

What do you know (from the Harris poll link). It turns out, that if you're an uneducated retard, you're way more likely to hold moronic views about Obama:

"Differences by education

These replies are also strongly correlated with education. The less education people have had the more likely they are to believe all of these statements. Consider these differences between those with no college education and those with post-graduate education:

* He is a socialist (45% and 20%)
* He wants to take away Americans' right to own guns (45% and 19%)
* He is a Muslim (43% and 9%)
* He was not born in the United States so is not eligible to be president (32% and 7%)
* He is a racist (28% and 9%)
* He is anti-American (27% and 9%)
* He is doing many of the things Hitler did (24% and 10%)."

Again, completely off point.

TheKing:

"No, no, you don't get it. I'm saying that he hasn't proven that he's eligible and that should bother you." - Rebelcross.

What the fuck planet do you live on?

Might I ask what the fuck you're talking about? Really, you're better than this. For somebody who talks such a big game for transparency and honesty in the media...

I really implore you to go back and actually read what's been written...and if you feel like you've made sense since then...well, then may you get help.

I need to learn this debate style, I really do. It would save me a lot of energy. Wait I'll start now:

Are you even a real person?

quote=TheKing]JK guys. Obama is actually a Kenyan-born Muslim smuggled into the US with forged documents who was groomed all his life to win the Presidency so he could...continue a bunch of policies started under Bush. Wait...what?[/quote] I made this point to a GOP diehard I know, and he said that the bailouts were part of Obama's plan all along. Like I said, partisan politics are the problem: people become loyal to a party, and not the country.

<span class=keyword_link><a href=/company/sac-capital target=_blank>SAC</a></span>:

He's actually an alien.

TheKing:

Rebelcross...are you the woman on this radio show?

I'd embed it, but the user on youtube won't allow it. Note that this is from a major show in DC.

I really don't see how you have in any way addressed anything relevant here or in any previous posts. Thanks for trying though. The debate becomes so boring when it turns into this...really, we all have better things to do if that's all that this is going to become.