Is there such a thing as a family finance job?

Ok all, I am 34 Finance BS, will finish MBA at Ross in fall 2012, working on CFA and FRM. Looking for a job in finance that is 40ish hours a week. Love spending time with the fam (got 3) and only looking to break 6 figures. I know you all are young and overflowing with man juice (I was a Marine for 15 years, I know how it is), but someone out there has to have some idea of a decent finance gig where strip joints and buckets of powder aren't the norm. Anyone?

Comments (57)

Jun 22, 2011

big 4.

Sad to see you dont care what work you're doing. You might wanna do some homework before you choose one, having a job you hate after 15 years as a marine is going to make you look stupid.

Jun 22, 2011

sorry, double post

Jun 22, 2011
trazer985:

big 4.

Are you retarded?
Miserable hours and next to no pay was not what the op was looking for.
To the OP, from what I've heard, corporate finance at a fortune 500 company is probably your best bet.

Jun 22, 2011
reddog23:
trazer985:

big 4.

Are you retarded?
Miserable hours and next to no pay was not what the op was looking for.
To the OP, from what I've heard, corporate finance at a fortune 500 company is probably your best bet.

I am pretty sure trazer's right. M&A/TAS at a big 4 has relatively decent hours (maybe not 40, but 50-55 is not unreasonable) and you can easily make 6 figures (all in) in a couple of years.

Jun 22, 2011

corporate finance / business development is definitely the way to go as far as the criteria you've listed

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Jun 22, 2011

Yeah, corporate finance at an F500 (or any other firm) is your best bet by far as far as good pay and work/life balance. Big 4 makes no sense...that's for people who did accounting and you'd be a lot lower than everyone your age (whereas an F500 will give you something a little higher up).

Other than finance, if you got good people skills, marketing (specifically the analytics part) can be good. Logistics might also be a good fit (it's not like a lot of people major in logistics). Insurance can be good as far as hours. Mortgage and/or real estate brokerage as well. Asset management can be good too, but you gotta have really good people skills to build up your client list (as a marine, maybe there's military focused retail AM shops you can look at).

Jun 22, 2011

MD in PWM. My MD works 4 days/wk, less than 40 hrs/wk, and made 875k last year. but, he worked very hard to get where he is today. Now I know everyone will say PWM sucks... You won't make anything close to what you could get in IB but it's pretty easy work and the higher up you are, the less you work and the more you make.

Jun 23, 2011
turtles:

MD in PWM. My MD works 4 days/wk, less than 40 hrs/wk, and made 875k last year. but, he worked very hard to get where he is today. Now I know everyone will say PWM sucks... You won't make anything close to what you could get in IB but it's pretty easy work and the higher up you are, the less you work and the more you make.

how much does he manage?

Jun 22, 2011
DurbanDiMangus:
turtles:

MD in PWM. My MD works 4 days/wk, less than 40 hrs/wk, and made 875k last year. but, he worked very hard to get where he is today. Now I know everyone will say PWM sucks... You won't make anything close to what you could get in IB but it's pretty easy work and the higher up you are, the less you work and the more you make.

how much does he manage?

UHNW clients at a BB. He manages a lot

Jun 22, 2011

F500 corp finance

If I had asked people what they wanted, they would have said faster horses - Henry Ford

Jun 22, 2011

please do not do big 4...esp at age 34.

If you can break into pwm or private banking at a BB and have rich family friend connections, this can be a good gig. I've seen people make 70k - 80k all in out of undergrad, don't know how it is structured for MBAs. Not quite sure about the hours but from what I've seen heard was 10-14 hour days, I'm sure that decrease after a few years as pay/bonus goes up.

Corporate finance is good too.

With your background I'd recommend looking into public finance consulting (not ibanking) in defense municipalities, aerospace, infrastructure, public power, or healthcare. you have a solid background for a public finn gig and you shouldn't have trouble landing one. the hours/benefits/culture/lifestyle are amazing and it wouldn't be hard to break 100k all in after a year or two. One firm that comes to mind is the PFM group, probably the best in the space.

Jun 22, 2011
oldmansacks:

please do not do big 4...esp at age 34.

If you can break into pwm or private banking at a BB and have rich family friend connections, this can be a good gig. I've seen people make 70k - 80k all in out of undergrad, don't know how it is structured for MBAs. Not quite sure about the hours but from what I've seen heard was 10-14 hour days, I'm sure that decrease after a few years as pay/bonus goes up.

Corporate finance is good too.

With your background I'd recommend looking into public finance consulting (not ibanking) in defense municipalities, aerospace, infrastructure, public power, or healthcare. you have a solid background for a public finn gig and you shouldn't have trouble landing one. the hours/benefits/culture/lifestyle are amazing and it wouldn't be hard to break 100k all in after a year or two. One firm that comes to mind is the PFM group, probably the best in the space.

Why not Big 4? I am just curious.

Jun 22, 2011
JMu:
oldmansacks:

please do not do big 4...esp at age 34.

If you can break into pwm or private banking at a BB and have rich family friend connections, this can be a good gig. I've seen people make 70k - 80k all in out of undergrad, don't know how it is structured for MBAs. Not quite sure about the hours but from what I've seen heard was 10-14 hour days, I'm sure that decrease after a few years as pay/bonus goes up.

Corporate finance is good too.

With your background I'd recommend looking into public finance consulting (not ibanking) in defense municipalities, aerospace, infrastructure, public power, or healthcare. you have a solid background for a public finn gig and you shouldn't have trouble landing one. the hours/benefits/culture/lifestyle are amazing and it wouldn't be hard to break 100k all in after a year or two. One firm that comes to mind is the PFM group, probably the best in the space.

Why not Big 4? I am just curious.

people are hopping out of big 4 in their late 20s early 30s for better pay/lifestyle. It's great for the first few years. But 34 + MBA, I'd never do big 4 or even consulting/banking.

Jun 23, 2011

Investment Consulting also fits into your criteria. Look into: Aon Hewitt, Mercer, Wilshire, Russell, and Cambridge Associates. You will get to work with institutional clientele and some of the top portfolio managers on the buy side. It's a great job if you are family oriented and value time away from the office.

The job can get busy at times because you are servicing clients after all; however it's not the type of work where your colleagues are putting in the extra hours so that they can make more money. Compensation is pretty stable due to the fee structure (generally retainer based and not asset based) which dis-incentivizes the type of competitive behavior that keep people in the office at all hours of the day. So everyone else in the office will tend to share your mentality.

Jun 23, 2011
FatTail:

Investment Consulting also fits into your criteria. Look into: Aon Hewitt, Mercer, Wilshire, Russell, and Cambridge Associates. You will get to work with institutional clientele and some of the top portfolio managers on the buy side. It's a great job if you are family oriented and value time away from the office.

The job can get busy at times because you are servicing clients after all; however it's not the type of work where your colleagues are putting in the extra hours so that they can make more money. Compensation is pretty stable due to the fee structure (generally retainer based and not asset based) which dis-incentivizes the type of competitive behavior that keep people in the office at all hours of the day. So everyone else in the office will tend to share your mentality.

What type of hours/pay are we talking?

Jun 23, 2011

Go F500. With your military experience and a solid MBA, you should be able to come in at a very decent level.

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Jun 23, 2011

F500 corp fin/bus dev would fit your criteria -> especially, if you are looking to stay in the midwest area,

BUT

if you are getting the FRM and cfa, why not look into risk jobs at a bank/hf...they might be a little more then 40 hours, but definitely not 80...and your earning potential will be pretty high. (not to mention, you've spent a lot of time and effort on those certifications, and they would be virtually wasted in F500)

Was your undergrad degree pretty quantitative?

Jun 23, 2011

There is nothing wrong with F500, but I don't think I have ever seen anyone with the CFA+MBA+FRM combo - there are only a few jobs that would value all three, and I think AM MO or execution trading is deffinitely one of those areas.

Jun 23, 2011

Sounds like an operations role might suit you well. Ops gets slammed on this site but buy-side ops people have a pretty good work/hours/comp breakdown in my eyes.

Jun 23, 2011

Wow! I expected a lot more smart ass comments, so I appreciate all of the great input. I suppose a little more background would help narrow it down.
I started in Finance because my Grandfather tapped me as the next in line to manage the family's fund (@ $5mil) as he said I had good instincts. I was full time active in the Corps so I could only go Univ. of Phoenix for my undergrad. It was BS Finance and quant heavy, but not too strenuous. I immediately started my own analysis company (working evenings) to get some experience pounding the finance ground so to speak. Lost a bunch of clients trying to pull them out of real estate and stocks in 2007. Spent 2 years in Germany taking care of blown up Marines re-evaluating things. (I wondered if I blew out the clients because of mismanagement or just bad relations). Watched finance essentially crumble in 2008.
Moved to Sao Paulo Brazil with my wife and kids to spend time near family. Brazil is vicious on networking, R$100k+ jobs only go to those with connections. So I pulled a 100% scholarship at Ross and started CFA and FRM to punch my quant skills higher and use the societies as networking bases. CFA and GARP here all run the Brazilian "Big 4."
I have an entrepreneurial background plus the corps, and I am working a go around HR as here they look at my CV and cross their eyes and ask why (fill in the blank: marketing, finance, sales, etc...). So I am trying to boost my creds through certs and meeting people.
Any other advice based on the ol' sob story will be greatly appreciated. You all remind me of Marines: rude, crude, looking to kick ass or grab ass, and always willing to help. Thanks again!

Jun 23, 2011

wait, so you are trying to go back to Brazil after school?

That is a whole different beast....I dont' think many people on here will be able to give you too much relevant advice. Is U.S. MBA even highly valued there?

What did your analysis company do?
WHat do you see yourself doing?

what about mngmt consulting for a S.American office?
Ross is a powerhouse for consulting, they love interesting backgrounds and several languages (do you speak portuguese, spanish, or German?), and your hours would be more reasonable...though we're moving farther from the 40 hour work week.

I hate to say, but I think that you are being a little too picky for your situation: You have limited experience, are looking at a very specific geographical area, want to make 100k, and want to work 40hrs or less. If just one of those conditions was different, I would say you had a better shot, but as of right now, im not so sure.

Its hard enough to make $100k working 40 hours or less in US with OCR and where MBA is a feeder for many industries.

Jun 23, 2011

I am currently living in Brazil, I am doing the Executive MBA so I fly up once a month. I understand that the 40 hours a week is tough, but at least here in Brazil, they tend to see time off at work as a given. US MBA's are pretty highly valued, as long as you can get around HR. HR down here are plain idiots. I speak Portuguese, Spanish, and a little German. Working on Mandarin. I know I have a crazy background, but that's what happens when you join the Marines at 17. Trying to play catch-up now. I am still waiting for the handover of the family fund to see what kind of fees the family will pay for managing it. Looking to be with a multi-national to have the flexibility to move internationally later. I figure Brazil might be a slick entrance into an otherwise extremely hard business to break into. Goldman has great salaries down here (the best starting salaries) but their bonuses suck as they can't close many deals. I know I am up against some stiff competition, but that hasn't ever scared me.
I will definitely look into management consulting/corporate finance. I appreciate the input.

Jun 23, 2011

didnt realize you were doing the executive program - that also changes some things.

I am glad that you are focused, and not scared of the competition. You have a very interesting background, and some company will surely value that.

Jun 23, 2011

Yeah, kind of self built trap: I have tons of entrepreneurial and consulting experience, leadership, sales, finance and marketing. I have been working on a couple of start-ups here but the stability just isn't there for ensuring a stable financial future for the family. The trap is that most companies are extremely specialist focused, even though all of the chatter at C-Level is how execs need more cross-discipline experience and ground level leadership. Again, thanks for the help. I am working to refine my aims over the next year or so before I graduate. Will keep my ear to the ground, you all are a great source of info.

Jun 24, 2011

Man, I agree that networking is importante here in Brazil... but it is just as anywhere else. I believe one problem here is that recruiting process is not so "formalized", like we do not have analysts classes and such but that is because the market is still small here...I agree with you that it is hard to find about job openings here with no contacts..

Our economy is doing great, it is not that hard to find R$100k + jobs here, especially in finance... 1st year IBD analysts in top banks (not Goldman) here are pulling between R$250k-R$300k (USD160k+)...

Hours will suck, but maybe you can apply to McKinsey/Bain/BCG or any other management consulting companies as your "unusual" background is highly regarded in those places.

Jun 23, 2011

Nutry,
Thanks for the great advice. I had considered MBB but in the states their hours seemed to be even more brutal than IB. I saw in another post that you work for MBB here in Sao Paulo. How do you like it? What are your hours like? I am headed to the States for a month but will look into interviewing with companies around October. Any tips?

Jun 24, 2011

Yes, in fact I am still working for a MBB company, but I am in the transition process to another job. What I can say to you is that here your experience can be really diverse. In my first engagement I worked about 60-65h a week, which seemed OK to me, especially because I had A LOT of flexibility to work from home or hit the gym in the mornings, and my project was in Sao Paulo, so no airports, delayed flights etc.
On the other hand, there were others that joined with me that worked until 2 A.M. every day (including most weekends) non stop in their first engagement. There is not a pattern: it really depends on the study and, especially, your manager in that study. One thing is a given: you will work less than Ibanking FOR SURE.
But I have some great news for you regarding the hours in the company I work for in LatAm. PM me with you are interested, as I cannot disclose it publicily since it is pretty new info.

Jun 27, 2011

front office roles in traditional AM. I work 40-50 on average

Jun 23, 2011
What-to-do-What-to-do:

front office roles in traditional AM. I work 40-50 on average

Can you give me and idea of who you work for? Is that the norm? What about when you move up?

Jun 28, 2011

I feel you should love what you are doing currently..you can move up in marine job also...why looking else where....

Jun 28, 2011

I work these hours in AM as well.

Jun 28, 2011

Depends entirely on firm/group culture.

Jun 23, 2011
buybuybuy:

Depends entirely on firm/group culture.

Can you PM me some examples or something? That's what I am looking for.

Jun 29, 2011

I also work in asset management. The hours are typically 40-50 hours a week. Admittedly, I am grateful to my firm and prefer to work 50, but no one would be upset if I didn't.

The atmosphere and lifestyle depends on the culture of the firm a great deal. I work at a boutique and would recommend it highly if you have certain lifestyle preferences. I am not sure of whether this would work for you as it seems you are an adventurous type, so AM may be boring for you.

For me, it is an ideal lifestyle, the pay is decent, I am able to live in a neat area and our firm is able to chose clients and only work with interesting people. However, the greatest benefit is all the partners have families of their own. If my daughter (I am a proud father) needs something, I can step out of work for an hour and be there for her. I am also home early enough to spend time with her and enjoy some time with my wife.

This is ideal as I am close enough to the action to be satisfied and professionally challenged, but does not require me to live my life out of a cubicle. At our firm, it seems analysts do the most of the important but boring work, the associates/directors do most of the client facing work and trading and the partners enjoy golfing with clients.

I may never have a war-chest of cash but no-one beyond the analyst level is hurting for money and I will never have to make the choice between professional interests and my family. That to me is worth it.

Jun 29, 2011

I'll make another plug for a corporate gig. With your experience and an MBA, you can look at Senior Manager / Director level spots. I'm at a Fortune 100, and our comp is comparable with competitors of similar size and industry (health care / pharma).

Senior Managers are at about $125k + 20% bonus
Directors are at about $150k + 30% bonus

40-50 hrs/wk, very limited travel (maybe 2-3 times per year for various corporate events).

Jun 29, 2011

S&T. Work mainly the market hours. No work on the weekends. Not going to get called in late on some deal. Great compensation if you can hack it.

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Jun 29, 2011

When I was an umpire I remember there was this PM who would come and watch his son's little league games. I always knew when he showed up because he brought a folding chair and sat away from the crowd by the goal line with a huge stack of paper that he'd read throughout the game. But I could always tell when his son was at bat or made a play because he was a loud motherfucker too and was always cheering.

Was really inspirational. 16 year-old me didn't write down his name/firm anywhere though since I didn't know that was what I wanted to do at the time.

tl;dr - if you want to be a family man you can, you just have to make an effort

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Jun 29, 2011
Stryfe:

Was really inspirational. 16 year-old me didn't write down his name/firm anywhere though since I didn't know that was what I wanted to do at the time.

Not trolling, but if you were 16, how did you deduce the fact that he was in fact a PM?

Jun 29, 2011

You are going to go to your son's soccer game when he is 45 years old? Even Kareem Abdul-Jabbar didn't last that long.

Jun 29, 2011

I think the rule of thumb is that the closer you are to the money, the more power you have to dictate your lifestyle. So, as a general rule, look to be on the buyside rather than the sellside. S&T is usually good, as the earlier poster said--trading more so than sales (salespeople often have to spend a lot of time travelling and taking clients out)--but not everyone has the personality to be a successful trader. There are plenty of hedge fund and PE roles with very reasonable hours--you just need to feel out the personality of the firm. I wouldn't recommend consulting (unless you have the skills/reputation to work for yourself), as then you're really at the mercy of the client.

Jun 29, 2011

By the time you're 45, regardless of the industry that you choose, you'll hopefully be high enough that your hours won't be insane. Clearly, this depends on industry -- if you're in a client facing role, your hours are going to be somewhat volatile, regardless of age/position.

It's not a bad idea to start off in a consulting/banking-type role, put in your time, then transition to something more family friendly -- e.g. corp strategy, corp dev, corp fin. Clearly, this is just one path you can take, as there are a variety of other finance-related paths (pwm, etc) that you can go down, but I don't have much guidance on those. My bosses (Directors/VPs at f500) clear 200K and ~350K, respectively, pretty easily, work 9-6pm, and have pretty flexible work arrangements (e.g. leave for games, work from home, take plenty of time off as needed for family-related stuff). Granted, unless you make SVP/EVP/C-suite, you're not going to be pulling down IBD MD money, but it's a trade-off, as is life.

Jun 29, 2011

Trading would be a good option, as someone above said. You'll be working before most people but will finish at/around the same time people in 9-5/6 jobs end. That being said, I don't think trading is a job you take because of the hours- takes a certain personality/skillset. I like the IB---> Corp Dev. sort of option (but keep in mind IB won't be a great move if you're trying to find the woman of your dreams in your first couple of years out of college).

Jun 29, 2011

being a family man is a lot less about how much time you have with your kids, but more what you do when you have time with them

It's all about bucks, kid. The rest is conversation. -Gordon Gekko

Jun 29, 2011

I agree with quality over quantity, and how you manage expectations down the road.

Jun 29, 2011

Ugh. This thread is too aspirational. Focus on a landing a great job before you plan your future kid's name.

Jun 29, 2011

AAM. That way your can retire by or before age 45.

"He that hath a beard is more than a youth, and he that hath no beard is less than a man." -- William Shakespeare, Much Ado About Nothing

Jun 29, 2011

Also, read any of Eddies posts on the topic.

"He that hath a beard is more than a youth, and he that hath no beard is less than a man." -- William Shakespeare, Much Ado About Nothing

Jun 29, 2011

Btw my user name is a guys as I have logged in as my hubby by misstake. But I can still see replies! Thanks, Saly

Jun 29, 2011

Do I just sound really naive or something? No replies... Yes I am new to this but gotta start somewhere. Any advice anyone?

Jun 29, 2011
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