9/23/09

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Comments (73)

9/23/09

For UCLA: Grad or Undergrad?
Maybe it does even matter.

I believe USC is in the lower end of Semi-targets, but UCLA undergrad is not a target. UCLA Grad (Anderson School of Business), I am not sure.

Financial Modeling
9/23/09

Trojans11, I am not sure where Zouzou got his information but I couldn't disagree more. I am a former analyst that has transitioned to the buyside and have a few banking contacts in LA. In my opinion, the answer to your question hinges on geography.

Within Southern California, I would say that both UCLA and USC are target schools. And when you think about it from the Director/VP/Associate's perspective (the guy that actually has to go travel to the school) it makes sense logistically to recruit nearby. If you wanted to go to SF, I would say they're both semi-targets. If you had your sights set on banking in New York or Chicago, neither are targets (best bet would be to intern your junior summer in LA or SF and then ask to transfer).

I wouldn't profess to know what MBA recruiting looks like in these economic times...

9/23/09

Just look at your career center website. Do you have banks recruiting at your school? If you do, then you are a target.

USC & UCLA are both targets for LA office bank, not so much for SF. Almost none for NY

9/23/09

Goodwill, I don't disagree with you. I should have clarified that I was speaking about the schools' status at the national level in which case both schools don't have high status. But locally, and less so outside of southern california, the schools are highly respected and local recruiting does happen a lot.

9/23/09

I have friends that go to UCLA, and from what they've said and what their friends say, UCLA doesn't sound like a great place to go if you want to do business. Yes, they have a bizecon major that is respected within the school since people know it's hard to get into, but they tell me that the only companies/banks that hire there are from LA (some from SF), and that these offices are a lot smaller compared to the NE/Chicago, so you have to be at the absolute best in one of the most competitive majors at the school to break in (less positions, less people getting hired). My friend is a pretty smart guy, but he couldn't land much because recruiting wasn't the absolute best there. The fact that they don't have a hard business degree is even more hurtful in this environment.

I'd imagine that USC is slightly the same, maybe a bit better because of the business major, and I'm sure either place would be good if you are extremely smart and hardworking and would be one of the best, but if you're not at the top, it'll be a huge dogfight, especially since those schools are tough anyways.

I don't know much about this industry btw compared to others, so take what I say with a grain of salt.

Pretty women make us BUY beer. Ugly women make us DRINK beer.

9/23/09

UCLA is pretty well respected for the MBA. For LA and SF I would say it is a target

9/24/09

i went to usc, i can speak with respect to usc undergrad only. usc undergrad is a regional target. pretty much what everybody has already said. also, investment banks may come to recruit, give on-campus presentations and interview, but that doesnt always mean they will make offers.

off the top of my head, i knew 6 people who got offers from a variety ibanks, 2 of them with gs. not exactly spectacular and this was a couple yrs ago. pm me if you want specifics.

from what i know, ucla biz econ is also a regional target. not the same for ucla econ. biz econ majors have higher gpa's than econ majors, bc you have to transfer into the program and it gets competitive. minimmum gpa for transfer is like 3.5, though i could be wrong.

trojans11, i'm assuming you go to usc? if so, i will leave you with a word of advice: network.

man made the money, money never made the man

2/7/10

What are the advantages of working in New York as an analyst compared to Los Angeles or San Francisco?

2/9/10

Not really much of a difference, it depends on the bank. Most here would say NY > SF > LA

2/9/10

For California based jobs in investment/asset management, how reputable are the UCLA and USC MBA programs?

2/9/10

They're great. In California, I mean.

11/20/10

Okay I can answer this now- about UCLA atleast. Yes, it is a target. You can get anywhere you want, especially in California. GPA 3.5+, Econ/Bus Econ/ Intl Econ (it doesn't matter much), good ECs, will get you interviews anywhere. You can also leverage your summer internship to any other city you want. For full time, its generally for positions in SF/LA, and its slightly harder to get to NY for full time, but definitely possible if you go through the accelerated process in the summer.

PM me for details/specifics.

4/29/12

I went to CMC but had friends go to both of those schools.

CMC, SC and LA all place well on the west

2/1/11

Both USC and UCLA are somehow heavily represented in Citi London i.e atleast one from USC/UCLA in most teams.

4/29/12

No one in recruiting cares about scholarships. You got your education paid for, awesome. You have less debt. There is no recruiting bump for one scholarship vs the other.

I'd view the schools as fairly equal in terms of job ops, but I am old and didn't go to school in CA, although I've hired people from both UCLA and USC. They are both solid programs.

4/29/12

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4/29/12
vuw957:

Being lame pays the bills, champ.

Does it though?

4/29/12
vuw957:

Really wouldn't get brownie points for having "full ride" on a resume? Further info: I'll be working part-time at USC in a local residential RE brokerage (which is why Id be graduating w/ no debt), is having unrelated job exp. a bonus over having nothing at all, if I was to attend UCLA? Or leave it off the resume? Thanks.

Correct - after college/for recruiting people really don't care how you got there or paid for it. They care about your performance while there. Some specific schools have a random ultra-prestigious scholarship, but it's highly likely that the people interviewing you will have no idea about it, and, thus, don't care. You get no brownie points.

Working as a RE broker will definitely help your resume because it is real work experience and can allow you to craft a much more interesting story/learn better skills than some retail job. Plus, you will learn some RE basics, if you want to work in other areas of RE.

4/29/12
TechBanking:

Working as a RE broker will definitely help your resume because it is real work experience and can allow you to craft a much more interesting story/learn better skills than some retail job. Plus, you will learn some RE basics, if you want to work in other areas of RE.

Meh.

It'll look good to have a job, but residential real estate is to real estate what being a retail banker is to being an investment banker. It's not the same thing and it's not even remotely the same level.

4/29/12
CRE:

"TechBanking" wrote:Working as a RE broker will definitely help your resume because it is real work experience and can allow you to craft a much more interesting story/learn better skills than some retail job. Plus, you will learn some RE basics, if you want to work in other areas of RE.

Meh.

It'll look good to have a job, but residential real estate is to real estate what being a retail banker is to being an investment banker. It's not the same thing and it's not even remotely the same level.

This is accurate as well. I'm not saying it is anywhere close to being the same, but it shows some level of interest and is a lot better than working at the Gap.

4/29/12

And PWM is technically retail banking - those losers....in all seriousness though yes it is different.

4/29/12

you sound lame, you probably wouldn't fit in at USC

4/29/12

Both solid options. Both have campus recruiting opportunities but (from last year) UCLA has a couple more banks come on campus. I believe it was Moelis and 1BB that doesn't recruit from usc but does from ucla. Usc guys still probably place at those places but not through on campus opportunities.

I wouldn't use the info above to influence your decision. I would visit the schools and pick the one I like best. They will both give you plenty of opportunity to place.

4/29/12

All I ever hear about from California people is the "USC Alumni Network" and how balls to the wall awesome it is. Perhaps a CA native can speak more about it, but that would be one of the deciding factors if I was in the situation.

4/29/12

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4/29/12

Ironically going to one of those shops listed, 2 interns from USC, 0 from UCLA.

4/29/12

The UC system is facing a budget crisis. Personally, my decision would be USC purely because I would choose private over public any day. As far as OCR, the difference is negligible. Go to the school that you like best (i.e. sports, stereotypes, girls, location, etc.). Best of luck!

4/29/12

After working in investment banking for 5 years in LA/SF, I have actually met a lot more USC alumni than UCLA who work in the industry. Surprisingly, even in San Francisco there are a lot more investment bankers/PE investors from USC than UCLA whom I have worked with.

4/29/12
Matt-Donegan:

"vuw957" wrote:
Being lame pays the bills, champ.

Does it though?

If I wanted to be an exciting person and enjoy the best years of my 20s, I wouldn't be going into investment banking. Evidently, I come from a poor household hence the financial aid allowing me to attend either school at low cost. Having experienced homelessness, being rich and lame isn't a bad deal.

MoelisOrBust:

UCLA has stronger recruiting than USC. Off the top of my head, Deutsche Bank, Moelis, Jefferies, Rothschild, PWP, Deloitte/KPMG CorpFin all have OCR at UCLA, but not at USC.

Also, from what I've observed, most LA/SF offices have more UCLA alums than USC does. This has always surprised me, considering USC is the one with an undergrad business school

masterg:

After working in investment banking for 5 years in LA/SF, I have actually met a lot more USC alumni than UCLA who work in the industry. Surprisingly, even in San Francisco there are a lot more investment bankers/PE investors from USC than UCLA whom I have worked with.

Conflicting perspectives?

4/29/12

I would say it's pretty even between the two. At both schools, you'll have to join the right clubs or business fraternities. It'll be extremely cutthroat.

http://www.wallstreetoasis.com/forums/ibd-placemen...
The budget crisis argument is too simplistic to use to justify USC over UCLA. From what I know as a CA native... USC is massively bloated with students, and the Trojan network is highly overrated unless you are in a fraternity that can provide those connections. In terms of academics, USC has an upper hand given that it is a richer private institution. In terms of location, UCLA is hard to beat.

Go with whatever is cheaper. Just realize that it will be extremely tough either way.

4/29/12

This.

Recruiting at both schools is pretty even (from a high level). It will be a tough and competitive place to recruit from both schools. The USC Network you hear about really goes to those involved in Greek Life or other highly prevalent student organizations (so if you're into that I would suggest you go to USC, but it sounds like you're not, which is okay too). UCLA campus / location is hard to beat.

4/29/12

What about grad school? I'm actually a bit surprised to hear that USC network is better than UCLA.

4/29/12

A lot of people have provided their insight on this discussion, but I'll my own thoughts as someone who went to one of these two schools and has spent time in investment banking in both SF and LA.

I would agree that the difference in terms of opportunities is negligible. Both schools demonstrate quality placement at all the banks in LA. The only small difference I can think of is Moelis and Houli Rx taking more analysts from UCLA than USC -- that being said, it is a very small number since both of these firms spend a lot more of their recruiting efforts at other schools like Richard Ivy and UPenn relative to other LA shops. I know that recently CS has had a very strong record with bringing in analysts from UCLA (usually like 2-3 a year). At other shops, the number shifts slightly each year, but I wouldn't necessarily say there is a clear trend in the blend of UCLA and USC graduates in an analyst class favoring one side or the other. Some firms have a tendency to focus on filling their analysts classes with UCLA and USC alumni (e.g. BAML LA) while others cast a wider net and make a point to give east coast candidates a lot of consideration (e.g. MS LA).

Regarding SF, I think there is a similar trend at both campuses. Of the candidates that recruit and get analyst gigs, I would say roughly 25-40% of them end up going to SF. I disagree with one of the posts above that states there is a noticeably higher number of USC graduates in SF. I have seen a fair amount analysts from both schools in SF, primarily in Tech groups. For some reason, neither of the campuses have a lot of alumni that end up in SF Healthcare groups (maybe 1-2 total per year).

I agree that at both campuses it is extremely competitive to get your "foot in the door" and setting yourself up for summer analyst recruiting. Both campuses have a lot of students interested in IB but only a very small subset of them are the ones that end up getting all of the interviews. This is primarily due to certain organizations on campus having an established pathway for students to recruit. For instance at UCLA, where there is no proper undergraduate business program, the business society has an investment banking workshop that basically selects 20-25 students a year and tees these candidates up to all the SF and LA banks with private networking events. As you can imagine, once accelerated interviews and OCR comes around, the overwhelming majority of UCLA candidates who get interviews and internships are from this group. Similarly at USC, a lot of the success in recruiting comes from being connected with the right organizations. Both organizations have very strong DSP business fraternity chapters, which consistently have a handful of students who get IB internships every year. Given how competitive it is at both campuses just to get connected with the right circles that can make recruiting a reality, I would strongly recommend you are very proactive as an underclassmen about getting part-time internships. The typical pedigree of a UCLA or USC candidate for an IB internship now includes the standard PWM part-time intership for a quarter/semester or two and also one to two part-time (and possibly summer) internships at some of the smaller boutique banks in the LA area like a Siemer & Associates, Imperial Capital, McCafferty, etc. Obviously there are always exceptions to this where some candidates do get internships without the typical "undergrad banking" background, but I would say the overwhelming majority of candidates resumes I have seen all have a similar path to the one I outlined above.

Happy to answer any specific questions about the recruiting processes for these schools with LA and SF banks.

4/29/12

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4/29/12

Dude, you really need to work on adjusting the "I hate anything elitist and exclusive" mantra especially if those things are things you haven't experienced first-hand. You are going after banking / finance positions and you don't think there is an elitist and exclusive stereotype tied to that? Just saying, if you're going to be closed off to organizations or opportunities just because you think they are elitist or exclusive or feel like you are above those things because of your background, then good luck to you. Not only will there be someone else at your school who is equally as smart as you, but that someone else will also be a better fit in and outside the interview room having experienced and been open to a number of activities and opportunities that came their way during their college career.

Unfortunately, no one on this board can make this decision for you. The schools are pretty much even when it comes to recruiting. There are groups on both campuses that will help you recruit better than the average student there. If you truly don't care about prestige/campus life and hate anything with an elitist/exclusive feel, UCLA actually might be the best place for you. USC Greek Life can feel quite daunting and elitist to the outsider and it is a pretty dominance force on campus. While UCLA's Greek Life is also big and prevalent, the student body is so large that you can find your niche far away from such circles. Plus, UCLA is a public school and so it has this "underdog" feel to it, which I feel like you would much rather get behind.

4/29/12

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4/29/12

No worries, best of luck to you. Congrats on making a decision, USC is a great school. Make sure you stay open to whatever comes your way and do your best to crush the academic side of things! 4 years will pass by quickly so don't be afraid to step back once in a while and just enjoy where you are in your life.

4/29/12

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4/29/12

Did you apply to Harvard or no

4/29/12

Hahahahaha projected GPAs....

patternfinder:

Of course, I would just buy in scales.

See my WSO Blog | my AMA

Financial Modeling
2/1/11

Banks that recruit at USC off the top of my head (in no particular order cos all you monkeys are obsessed with rankings):
Bulge brackets:
1. Goldman Sachs
2. Morgan Stanley
3. BAML
4. Credit Suisse
5. BarCap
6. Citi
7. UBS
8. JPM
9. Lazard (sometimes)
10. Wells Fargo

MM/Boutiques firms:
1. Jefferies
2. Piper Jaffray
3. Houlihan Lokey
4. Stifel Weisel
5. Guggenheim
6. Greenhill
7. Prudential Securities
8. Wedbush Securities
9. Macquarie

Hedge funds/PE:
1. Relational Investors
2. Summit Partners

Informal recruiting also for Centerview.

Somehow, DB and Moelis only recruits at UCLA, but USC kids get interviews through network

P.S. Feel free to build on this list if anyone knows anything more

4/29/12

None of them are optimal because they are on the West Coast. But if you want a ranking of those four schools, here you go:

  1. UCB (toxic school environment, however)
  2. UCLA
  3. USC
  4. UF
4/29/12

How would they place in West coast IB?

4/29/12

All three schools place really well in west coast. But seriously, you're going to a community college just to break into IBanking? Seriously? Like come on, finance is great and all but there's more to life and leaving UF to go to a community college where you aren't guaranteed a transfer to one of those schools to go do recruiting where you probably won't break in is not an optimal play. I would focus on getting a role in consulting or MM IB or F50 rotational program and get into BB/EB banking through an MBA.

4/29/12

Everyone else responding isn't from California, so you may as well not even pay attention.

If you could go to Haas, then do that. If you don't think you'd get in, then you'd be fine at either USC or UCLA. All the banks, big and small, interview at both schools in January. They are looking for interns for their LA and San Francisco offices. They don't take nearly as many interns as their offices in New York, obviously, but a few dozen kids get internships each year and it really isn't that hard to do. I say transfer, 100%.

As far as going to a community college, it isn't exactly ideal, but you're right that if you went there for one year and did well (and they are ridiculously easy, so you would), you'd easily get into UCLA and Berkeley, not necessarily USC though. Tons of people do pretty well at santa monica college and transfer to ucla junior year - you don't have to get a 4.0 or anything, but you probably will anyway.

4/29/12

Exactly what i was looking for. Thanks. And yeah, im trying to get the best possible position, but if i cant, atleast ill have a decent one in california.

4/29/12

Why don't you just finish UF, get a 3.8 or something, and then apply to a 1-year Masters in Finance program? I heard UVA has a good one, so does UCLA if you want to move to California. Maybe MIT/Sloan? Then you'll be well-positioned for an analyst role at a top ibank.

4/29/12

UF combined degree MSF program looks to have very good placement, it would be silly not to take that route if you are able to

4/29/12

UCB Econ > USC, UCLA for recruiting

4/29/12

USC has a strong alumni network and their Marshall school places well into Weat coast IBD. I've seen candidates to head to head with Stanford, Haas and Ivy kids. Not sure about actual placement but USC kiss def get interviews.

there's actually not as much difference between UCB Econ and Haas as ppl think, but Haas just serves as a better "leading indicator" and does a tremendous job prepping kids for IBD. But in theory there's no reason a bright Econ student can't do the same, as long as there's no chip on your shoulder. Econ is much easier to get into as well.

UCLA is a great school. Best candidates get good placements. Not as natural a feeder into IBD (unlike MBA program) but if you do well you should be able to get into a good bank, especially in the LA area.

4/29/12

As a student at one of the California schools who transferred, let me just say that coming from a CC and trying to get into IB from UCLA/UCB is really, really, really tough, and I'd say BB is probably impossible unless you have some super unique background (military or something). Haas it would be more doable because it is specifically targeted, but UCLA starts late and IB recruiting happens before you even have a GPA (for any UC school), and with CC on your resume, in my experience, anything IB related it is going to go in the trash. The CC thing isn't really an issue with other industries, I managed to get consulting interviews, Big 4 interviews pretty easily.....so just be warned, you would really be putting all your eggs in one basket for something that is a stretch.

4/29/12
UFC:

As a student at one of the California schools who transferred, let me just say that coming from a CC and trying to get into IB from UCLA/UCB is really, really, really tough, you would really be putting all your eggs in one basket for something that is a stretch.

Appreciate your reply. So what you are getting at, is due to UCLA's late start, I would be out because I'd only have CC coursework to show for internships. Good point. Would this be avoidable by starting UCLA in the summer before IB? Even if its just one online/late class...(I assume I'll have some sort of internship, so a FT schedule prob wouldn't be feasible).

Also, when formally applying to BB etc, wouldn't I be able to only list where I graduated and my GPA?

Also, more thoughts on UF MSF program? ( may make a sep thread on it. cant find much about it on WSO.)

4/29/12

I'm hoping to transfer to USC Marshall from 4-year non-Cali public university. Would it also be difficult to get into IB?

4/29/12

Marshall is a good school and I do know there are people that get into IB. I will say USC alumni are more tight knit and are willing to go to bat for fellow Trojans a little more than the alumni for my school, but USC is definitely more regional than UCLA/UCB. But Marshall is very expensive and once again, no guarantees. Probably easier to get higher grades at USC as well. If you work hard, network etc you should be ok.

If I was to do it all over, I may have went to USC if the price wasn't so high, especially since I'm not leaving LA anytime soon.

4/29/12

You wouldn't have a UC GPA from anywhere when recruiting happens in Fall.

Obviously once you have a GPA you can take off the CC, but at the same time, when you apply FT (which there are no actual postings for FT for the most part, usually filled with SA in August), you are going to have to have a SA position, and this is where the CC is going to come into play.

The other option is stay 3 years, but Econ/Biz Econ are very short majors (I only have a few classes left). Summer would work but you'll have to show your transcript and you'll have one or two classes on it at most.

4/29/12

UF MSF- just looked at C/O 2016 (which would be the most recent SA placements). They look good.

4/29/12

Echo UCB Econ > UCLA & USC

Highly doable for even top groups/firms with networking, great experience, and strong interviewing

4/29/12

Well, I'm torn. Every option looks good. USC/UCLA for the location + decent opportunties, UCB for the guaranteed amazing opportunities, or UF MSF just to keep it cheap but still place relatively well and stay close to home. Really don't know what to do.

4/29/12

I think you might have to decide what you value more ie home UF MSF or being at a very strong program with good recruiting ie UCB Econ. Nobody else can make that decision for you but personally I'd go with UCB Econ over all other choices you have unless finances is a major concern for you. You still have to be at or near the top of the class at all those schools to be considered for IB.

4/29/12

Florida is not a bad school. I've seen Florida kids at BBs and elite boutiques. Transferring to a Cal school won't be your golden ticket. You'll still have to do well to go work for a good bank. If you can make it from a Cal school, you can probably make it from Florida. Hustle a little bit and make it happen.

4/29/12

Check out USC's MSF program too, just started a year ago and has good class profile stats. Expect it will place very well in west coast IB! Personally I would seriously consider that option. Unlike UCB and UCLA's MFE programs they are not meant for absolute Quants, rather people trying to break into finance

4/29/12

Either go to WF or SunTrust as a UF undergrad or get in touch with MSF people (they generally get started as a junior). Program has very good connection across wall street and that's why they have great placements. But you need to be good and on radar early.

12/4/11

Junior at USC, we are a fucking target...

UBS, CS, MS, JPM, BAML, Barclays, Citi, WFC (All BB) and Houlihan are ALL doing OCR and came to visit campus for recruiting/networking events.

What else is needed to be a Target?

Plus USC is ranked higher than UCLA now for Undergrad, we have a top Undergrad B school and insane alumns in So-Cal....

So how can there be a question regarding USC being a target??????????

12/28/11
USCstudent26:

Junior at USC, we are a fucking target...

UBS, CS, MS, JPM, BAML, Barclays, Citi, WFC (All BB) and Houlihan are ALL doing OCR and came to visit campus for recruiting/networking events.

What else is needed to be a Target?

Plus USC is ranked higher than UCLA now for Undergrad, we have a top Undergrad B school and insane alumns in So-Cal....

So how can there be a question regarding USC being a target??????????

Ranking means nothing, UCLA has all those banks + GS, JPM, Moelis, and a few others

4/29/12

Also, how many firms should I apply to and how long should I wait until I decide that they won't' call me back?

4/29/12

All those schools are great for BBs in LA/SF. Also, I know a couple UCLA kids that got NY gigs. You'll be fine.

4/29/12

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