I've been seeing lots of articles being written on millennials as job hoppers with writers praising and condemning frequent job changes.
I consider myself to be on the aggressive side in regards to not putting up with a job that is not a good fit but would still stick it out for a year+ (can end up being a bit longer due to timing of bonus payout) but have been surprised by a few career moves of the first / second year analysts at my shop. Just this past year I have seen two IBD analysts who were in their first BB job for 6 - 12 months prior to changing shops and then hopping again in BB group was a sweat shop, up-tiering, break into IBD-didn't like lifestyle-quit IBD). I can agree with those wanting to make an external move to switch into a different group (i.e. PWM/commercial banking -> IBD) as their program will likely make them wait 12-24 months before being allowed to move internally and thats too much time to lose not being in the industry you wanted out of undergrad.
Monkey's I'm curious to know what are some of the most radical / shortest tenure moves you have seen and how long are you willing to stay in a job / with a company you do not think is the right fit. I believe that one short stint (even if under a year) can easily be explained away, especially when it fits in with your career story and strategy, but am not sure about multiple short-stints. Would you want to hire an analyst or associate who has had 2 jobs for 1 year each and you were the third firm they were interviewing for? Or how about a 2 year job stint followed by two one year stints interviewing for their 4th job with your firm?
How much of a shift are you seeing in this latest batch of grads (i.e. 2014 - 2015) in regards to early quitting as opposed to 2010-2013 grads?
B2Banker, I think the answers you will get here are going to be very different than what you will hear should you survey those outside of finance. In finance, it is entirely acceptable to start off at a "no-name" boutique, leave after a year for a larger bank, and then leave that larger bank after a year for a non-IB role. That's what I did, and I know many who have done the same. In finance, that's just "making moves", not "job hopping". When I tell people that I have had three jobs since graduating college, those who do not work in finance are shocked, but those in finance view it as something completely normal. When I was interviewing for post-IB roles, not a single interviewer brought up the fact that I had only spent a year at each of the banks that I worked at.
Maybe someone with some more work experience can comment how that changes once one moves past junior roles.
I've had 6 gigs in 9 years and find push back whenever I venture to larger organizations.
HR people are the most myopic cockroaches on planet earth but it isn't really a talking point when i'm connecting with smaller / more risk taking organizations.
SB for that guy. What he wrote is correct to my observations: there are a number of businesses out there where "job hopping" is expected. Finance is one of them, as is consulting where saying you want to leave is frequently met by your director calling up some people he knows to find a job for you.
Thanks Sil and @Attack_Chihuaha" +SB.
Sil Completely agree. There are plenty of kids who have their heart set on IBD but for whatever reason were not able to make it happen out of school and are looking to switch ASAP. That move completely makes sense to me, why wait it out for a couple of years in an industry (as some others suggest) they don't want to be in before applying for IBD. The opportunity cost would be huge, just think all your peers have finished their analyst programs and are already in PE / B-school whereas you are just breaking in.
Hypothetical for you. I recall that you're in Corp Dev, lets say that a year into your job you feel that you do not like things on the client side. Either caliber of work is lower than what you are used to seeing, want more execution experience (i.e. evaluating lots of transaction but not closing on anything), want to go back to banking...How would you feel about making a move in being at this place for a year, think there would be resistance? From my perspective the story would make logical sense had you encountered any of the issues I've mentioned.
I really feel that we do not have enough discussions on WSO in regards to this topic and am hoping to get a robust conversation going on this.
As for me, I've been in corporate banking as an analyst & associate. Started at a BB for 2 years, got recruited to join a build out at a smaller bank, build out was not going well and promises not being kept so left in just under 1year, at a new shop for a year now but not loving it and know its not a long term fit. I don't think my move potentially fits in as well as Boutique (1yr) --> MM IBD (1yr) --> MM PE / BB IBD / Corp Dev, can see people asking me why last 2 jobs were only 1year if I look to do this at another bank or another part of banking (IBD, capital markets), etc though would have a very logical explanation for the change.
Would really love to hear from geoffblades SSits IlliniProgrammer and CompBanker , really hoping to get a good dialogue going here from various experience levels and those of us making hiring decisions.
Thanks guys.
To be sure, sticking it out at any job for 18-30 months sends a positive signal. It means the firm had the opportunity to fire you or lay you off, but chose not to. The problem is that having Goldman Sachs on your resume doesn't really count if you only worked there two months. And if there's a long string of working at places that like to hire someone for several years but only sticking it out for a few months, that looks bad. Is this guy employable? Is this guy a job-hopper? Is he going to quit a few months after we train him?
But if a job is ruining your life or your health or your soul, your career is #3 or #4 on the list of life's priorities.
I'm a millennial and also a job hopper. Started out in accounting, worked a regional sized firm for about 4 years, did big 4 for one year, worked in a BO role for a year at a bank, now do ER at a boutique.
Coming out of college I knew I liked equity and markets, but never knew there was a actually a job such as ER. Everyone I knew who did "finance" was ether an accountant or a financial advisor, which is not a job I really wanted. So basically it became a work around for me, taking each job in succession. As I went along, I learned about the skills and positions that were needed/available in IB. All jobs I have stayed at a year plus, but it's also weighted against how long one should stay in a position.
I think most of the job hopping that is condemned is when people start to chase dollars or just "need a change". Also, frequent job changing will probably be the way of the future. People condemned cars in favor of horses at one point.
i once interviewed a guy who had spent no more than 3-5 months at a job for about 3 years or so. when i asked him why he said he has taken a year off from corporate america and went backpacking through the world (he was 34 when he left) and when he came back he said he had gotten "perspective" on the world and every company/team/employer he had worked with was too "capitalist" and only worried about making money. Right???? What a douche. He probably got used to hopping from one hostel/hippie commune to another and not working so he couldn't take the pressure of the real world when he came back. I only interviewed him because i saw his job hopping so I was curious what the fuck he was thinking. Needless to say we didn't hire him. after the first 2-3 times not sure what the other 5 were thinking of when they hired him but some mysteries are meant to not be solved.
Was this for a job in banking or some other finance field? A new job every 3-5 months is really out there, I've seen a few people who switch once a year for first 3-4 years of their career or so (the guys I've seen who have done this are on their third job now, not sure how the interview process for job #4 will go if it will mean 4th job in 4 years).
The extreme case aside, how would you feel about an applicant who is 2 years out of undergrad and has had 2 jobs already (both at 1 year each) or someone 3-4 years out with your firm being the 4th job they are applying for, would you give these applicants a chance if they can tell a clear story for each move (i.e. wanted IBD out of school but did not win any offers, took a job in PWM/Mid-Office/Ops, transitioned to a no-name Boutique a year later and left to MM IBD after a year, MM IBD turned out to be a sweatshop and comp off-market for hours worked, left after 8-10 months and joined a lower level BB, stayed at the BB for a little over a year and wants to transition to another group their bank is not very strong in but your bank is (or a move outside of banking to Corp Dev) - would you give a person like this a shot?
The big take away I am trying to get out of this for younger monkeys if its alright to change jobs after ~1 year at a firm if things are not working out. I know of a few junior bankers who have done their best to diligence a role prior to accepting but nonetheless the job ended up being a poor cultural fit, are these guys ok to move on after a year to find the right fit if their prior job tenures were also short (say a 1.5 year stint at Bank A and a 1 year stint at Bank B).
it was corporate finance (non banking - more strategy and operations type). A huge part of what I look for is personality. If you come across as genuine and I think you would be a culture fit, I would still give you a chance because EVERYTHING, i'll say it again, EVERYTHING else can be taught. This is why people suffer sometimes because the take the job even if they don't like the culture or the manager but because it pays well and then they have to leave when they can no longer take the misery.
I would give more leeway to the recent grad with two jobs as they are trying to figure it out. if you haven't figured it out by year 3 or 4 you are the problem not the employers because you should know your likes and dislikes by then so if you have 4 misses in a row you have bad judgement and I wan't nothing to do with you.
Lucky for me i am pretty good at reading people so i can tell if someone is genuinely interested and is enjoying the conversation and learning about the job and the company (i give them real examples from daily life and see how they react - body language never lies if you know what to look for) or if they are blowing smoke up my ass and they just want the prestige of my firm on their resume.
B2Banker if you are not happy just leave man - not worth the waiting around unless a pig bonus check is on the line. having said that, measure your choices carefully as you only get 1 or maybe, MAYBE, 2 of those in your whole career (unless you get an MBA - that adds one more reset button to your dildo - i mean toolkit). good luck.
Statistically speaking, job going doesn't hurt: http://www.forbes.com/sites/cameronkeng/2014/06/22/employees-that-stay-…
I know someone who was on his third job in real estate within 1 year of graduation. It helps that his family is connected, though.
Started with 12 analysts at a BB in AM, after 2 years it was just myself and another analyst left.
Sounds normal. Would be interested to know if any of them moved again since leaving your BB AM program.
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