Hi all,
It seems to me that this topic comes up more and more in the recent weeks.
1 What are the circumstances under which firms rescind their offers to 1st year IBD analysts (Class of '12)? I imagine firms don't downsize their 1st year classes too much as they're always needed, but who knows right now where everything seems to fall apart (will start in London i.e. big exposure to Europe)?
2 Are different groups (product vs. industry, if available even within these subgroups) affected more/less likely?
3 If you had the coice between starting early and starting in July - both with full-scale Analyst introduction - would you sacrifice 3 months of free time for having more job security and starting early? I figure that starting as early as possible might be a dominant strategy regarding job security in this economy.
There's a good article on M&I on this topic, however I think that the current state of the economy could change their bottom line of "always start late".
Thanks for your input!
Also interested. If shit hits the fan how fucked are the large European banks? My assumption is that things would get ugly.
I'm also interested in this...could anyone comment on how likely it is for banks/asset managers in Asia to rescind their offers to first year analysts?
thanks!
I went to undergrad at a semi-target with pretty heavy recruiting for IBD from BB. I graduated in 2009 so many of my classmates and the guys above me were graduating at the height of the credit crisis. The only guys I know who had offers rescinded were Bear and Lehman people.
Bulge-bracket banks typically don't rescind offers because: 1.) It is extremely bad PR and groups of lawsuits 2.) They can simply not pay you a bonus 3.) There is always work analysts
However, BB banks can and often will: 1.) Offer (and suggest to) you to take an one-year paid hiatus (you are paid half to defer work for a year) 2.) Not provide work sponsorship if you are an international student (which pretty much means you are being laid off)
Just because you don't get rescinded doesn't mean you are safe. A lot of analysts and associates have been laid off a few short months into their full-time work. After all, it isn't extremely negative PR and grounds for lawsuits anymore after you have started working. Nonetheless, to ensure your offer doesn't get rescinded and that you don't get laid off early in your career, make sure you work hard and do the small things that make a huge difference. Things such as: 1.) Sign your offer letter ASAP (since they want people who are committed to the bank). If you wait until the last few days to sign, it is pretty much assumed that you are interviewing elsewhere and shopping your offer. If there is a pecking order, the people who wait months and sign their offers last will be the first to get cut. 2.) Keep up your relationships during your final year of school. So continue networking and keeping in touch with the members of your group 3.) Don't make dumb mistakes. If you get arrested or bad grades, it might provide your bank with an excuse to lay you off. Just make sure you don't get caught for something you wouldn't want your bank to know
Job offer from BB rescinded (kinda)! What to do now? (Doing masters in finance next yr) (Originally Posted: 03/21/2011)
So this is for a friend of mine at a target school who's doing a one year master's program next year. He had a job at a BB lined up, but when he told them he got accepted to a top master's program, they basically told him that they don't have room for him to join the following year, so he's going to have to find another job if he wants to do the master's program. Since he really wants to do the one year master's, he's been searching for another job. He's interested in IBD, S&T, and HF's.
Banks don't defer job offers. They're not schools. Choose between the job and the masters program.
Why doesn't he just find another job like he found the first one? Or better yet, why not just take the offer he already has (i.e. screw the grad degree), and not worry at all about this?
Well the problem is that it's past recruiting season so he can't possibly find a job in the same fashion (ie: through career services).
He was the one who reneged on the offer. It truly bugles my mind me how some kids jump through dozens of hoops to get into banking, yet don't realize the implications of their pre-FT decisions.
Do you even realize how much money does it take to hire one kid? A recruiter told me that the price-tag is around $5,000
Your friend is about to miss one of the hottest M&A seasons, foregone $120k+ all-in comps, and drop at least $65k on useless degree.
$120K all in comp is very conservative as well... This kid is an absolute moron for trying to go to grad school... I'm gonna laugh when he drops money on it and can't get into the industry again. Have fun using your degree to keep you and your shattered dreams warm at night...
I'm really enjoying the thought of someone's mind being "bugled".
if it's front office at a BB i don't think his MS in Finance will be any real value add. i would choose the BB in a heartbeat.
The point of a MSF is to re-brand yourself so you are more competitive for BBs.
What type of job does he have lined up (is it FO? BO?). And is this the type of job he's aiming for after the grad degree? And what is the Master's for? Why does he want to do it instead of just starting work right away?
i did the same thing 2 yrs ago, was in msfe program, applied to a hf trading desk prior to starting the program, got the offer, dropped the program like a bad habit, never looked back
What foolishness is this kid thinking. You're going to learn more in the 2 years at a BB IB than a one year Master's program. This is not a smart choice in any way.
That said, he can always apply after he gets his Master's. He probably won't be able to get a job at the same firm. If he hasn't already renegged, tell him not to. He'll have a lot better options after 2 years of work experience. On top of THAT, S&T and HFs specifically don't generally give a shit if you have an MFin or MBA. Sure, you may get up-or-outed, but THEN is the time to go for a Master's program. Now he's spending, what, $50k on a Master's program which adds little to no value to his resume (from the limited information you have given us). Now not only will he have to pay for that, but if he doesn't get asked to stay on after his Master's program, he's got to pay the $100k+ for an MBA.
Obviously it's not as cut and dry as that, but still, learn from your friend's (massive) mistake.
Hilarious how these are always for a "friend". If your "friend" still has the option, go with the offer instead.
Hi all.
I don't want to get into too much detail, but let's all pretend he has a good reason to do the master's program.
He had a job with a BB's IBD, but he hated his summer there and would prefer to do more quantitative investing type work. If his goal was to just do IBD his whole life, of course he'd take the BB offer over doing the masters. But he really would prefer not to do IBD and there are other reasons for wanting to do the master's program that I'm going to leave out for the sake of anonymity.
I have a suspicion that your friend is you, and that this entire situation is theoretical.
Haha wow you guys are just not very intelligent.
ok sure... "friend", you mean you right?
Err yeah because I'm so ashamed of asking an online forum for advice for myself, especially since you all know exactly who I am. Not like I can hide behind a username or anything like that on WSO.
dukeofduke you and Brady Hoke can't be the same person because he is to afraid to leave MI..... or are you the same person...
Situational Overview:
LOL keep telling yourself that. Sure, fine, let's say it's me who I was talking about instead of a friend of mine - makes really no difference to me. In that case, let me tell you "I" did land an offer a year ago, "I" worked there this past summer, "I" got a return job offer, and it's for a top 3 bank (GS, MS, JPM) but "I'm" turning it down for one of the best Master's in Finance programs in the world because 1) "I'm" too fuckin' smart to waste my brain on doing IBD analyst work, and 2) personal reasons for wanting to stay in school. Booyaashaakaah, suck on it bitch, how does it feel to know you'll never match "me"?
That's the summary of the situation.
The reason for doing the masters might be a citizenship thing.
I never thought someone would out tool boutiquebank... kudos dukeofduke
Please, that guy doesn't know meaning of tool. I'm am the true powertool all tools aspire to be.
This is all very confusing... I'm still not quite sure what you're asking or what type of advice you're looking for. Instead of being a douche (too late for that I guess), why don't you try explaining the situation clearly and then ask some direct questions. Your question seems to be "how do I find another job?"... Well thats a fucking broad question.
Fair enough, I was looking for advice on what type of places to look into (ie: small hedge funds? S&T boutiques?) that might still be hiring for the summer, what means to go through (career services, alumni network, job postings on certain websites) for someone entering a master's program, and general career advice following a master's degree for someone with some IBD experience (I think he worked his freshman and sophomore summers in IBD for boutiques as well).
Two conflicting questions I was hoping you could address:
Under the assumption you and your friend are the same person: Why are you getting defensive about your friend's situation and why doesn't your friend post for himself?
Under the assumption you and your friend are separate people: Since this is an anonymous forum what motive would you have to lie in the first place?
Pretty sure you have those backwards....
hahahaha
Congratulations on insulting multiple people that are in positions/jobs you'd love to be in.
Your friend (I'm just going to assume you're not lying because I couldn't care less) made a mistake. He would've been a lot better position to find a job in the field (quant, I guess?) he wanted by doing 2 years at an IB. Everybody is telling you he made a mistake, if you don't think he made one, ignore those people.
I'm now going to assume he's starting this fall for his Master's program. Great, that means he has 2 or 3 months between when school ends and his program starts. Tell him to get a job at Starbucks or something. He made the decision to continue being a student, he might as well expect to get a student-type job. Nobody is going to hire him for 2-3 months for any work that has any value.
If they Master's program actually starts NEXT fall, than he's an even bigger idiot than I thought and made an even bigger mistake than I though.
And how the hell do you expect us to give you ideas for a job your friend when you give us no information other than he graduated from college, had a job lined up at a BB, and now doesn't?
They were meant to question the assumption directly above, not line up. My brains fried from studying so it I agree it sounded confusing regardless.
Masters in finance or Masters in computational finance? There is a big difference.
LOL you think I would want to be in the position of any of these 'tards? I'd rather stick my middle finger up their grandmas' rectums and take a big whiff of what comes out than switch places with these guys.
Screw getting advice from a forum full of non-target students and boutique bankers. I don't know what possessed me to try in the first place.
then do us a favor and go away
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