Goldman VS. JPM
Hey guys,
I need help deciding between internship offers at Goldman Sachs and J.P. Morgan.. They are both in the same division (Operations Division). I am aware of Goldman's "prestige" but I'm also taking both firm's culture into consideration. I don't have much familiarity about finance firms as this is the first time I will be working in this industry so I'm looking to those who have more experience.
Thanks!
in b4 high school kids start telling you you're stupid for not doing Goldman
Is this for New York?
I'm going to assume this is New York, and since you included "Exit Ops," I'm only guessing here, but do you see yourself leveraging this experience to try and break into IBD or S&T next summer/in the future? If so, as crazy as this sounds, I might actually go with JP Morgan due to the midtown location.
I knew someone who did their summer internship at Barclays (which is in midtown, near times square), managed to network with some people at Morgan Stanley (only a couple minutes walk from the offices of Barclays) and he did some interviews with them during his summer internship and walked away with an offer from Morgan Stanley before the summer was over.
Admittedly, that is only one data point, but if you are considering networking or interviewing with other firms, it could be something worth considering.
Yes, they are both based in NY. The thing is, I am not exactly sure what division is best fit for me. I applied to operations mainly because I felt like I needed to start somewhere. Perhaps in the future I might pursue Asset Management simply because I have a bit of a sales background and is something I liked in the past. Don't you think that by choosing Goldman I'd have more "doors open" for me? I appreciate the advice.
they both suck... PJC ftw
Are you really just going to accept an ops internship this early into the season? Why not shop around a bit.
True but I guess I am afraid of losing these opportunities otherwise?
prestige of goldman ops?
That's what I was thinking but I'm not 100% sure
Listen, I'm not sure what exit ops you are looking for but you won't have a ton from Ops either way. I will say I know people who went from BO jobs at JPM to GS and have said the culture for the BO is much better at GS. And it is a better name. But the culture certainly isn't for everyone and if you aren't outgoing and type A you won't like it, even in Ops. I sometimes find the Ops people to be worse because they all want to move somewhere within the firm and tend to be a little cut throat because of that.
Yes, this is my main issue with Ops: limited exit opportunities. That is why I am also taking into consideration what I may want to do in the future. As far as being extroverted, I don't have issues with that. I am just taking into consideration whether or not I will like the culture of people and I have been told that the people in the ops department at GS are "treated equally." This is just an internship so I plan on doing it and if I don't like it, I will mingle my way into another division.
Just keep in mind that its not like you're going to be getting FO exposure at all in BO. I know it sounds like a possibility now but it is very very difficult. As someone whose done FO at a BB and has friends that have done BO they can more than attest to that.
One of my friends accepted BO this early and still regrets it to this day. Not saying you can't do it at all, but there is a ton of time here left and you still have plenty of time to snag a FO position.
GS! During the summer work hard and apply for internal mobility to Finance/Risk etc or something like that.
GS vs. JPM: Decision (Originally Posted: 03/09/2010)
I was wondering if anybody had some feedback on a summer internship with JP Morgan Mid-Corporate Banking (under Commercial Banking) and GS Bank Debt Portfolio Group (under Finance).
Would one of them impair "exit" opportunities for full-time recruiting? Which one would be a better trampoline to a career in i-banking later on -- if interests change? If a full-time offer is made by either of them, which one would offer better opportunities for B-School etc? Anybody has any experience with the two -- or at least the divisions as a whole (finance vs. commercial banking)?
Any feedback is very much appreciated!
1) What sort of "exit" opps are you looking for? 2) If you're interested in ibanking, I would recommend going with JPM, as midcorp banking is more similar to IB than the offer at GS.
3) Can't comment on bschool, as I haven't gone, nor have I ever been part of an ad-com 4) PM if you want info on JPM's midcorp or GS's finance divisions
definitely go with GS -- BDPG falls under LevFin, which is considered part of IB. IMO that's the best option...
Thanks for your input. As a clarification, BDPG falls under both Finance (credit risk) and IBD (financing Group).
By "exit" opps I really meant the mobility from one division to other similar divisions within banking.
Choosing between GS and JPMorgan interns (Originally Posted: 11/29/2014)
Hi everyone,
I am new to the forum. I have got summer associate internship offers from JPM quant research (particularly Model Risk and Development group) and Goldman Sachs Strats(Derivatives Analysis group). I am having a hard time deciding between the two. I was interviewed by the MDs of both groups so I am in touch with both of them and have talked to both over phone after getting the offers. I am an Aero/Astro PhD and work on numerical methods for PDEs. But I have worked a good deal on machine learning, statistical modeling etc as well. The two divisions seem to focus on these two different areas. Since I am not from a Finance background, both offers sound interesting and I am not sure which will be better in the end. I'm also not very sure if I would be continuing in finance or not but definitely want to explore that option.
Can anyone shed some light on the kind of work involved in these 2 domains, the quality of the groups, growth potential etc.? The deadline for one of the offers is Tuesday. It'd be great if I can get more insight before that! Thanks in advance
Congrats on both of your offers! What LOB is the JPM offer in (CIB, CF, AM... etc)? From a quick glance, model risk sounds less sexy than derivatives analysis. I worked on a building one of JPM's models from a business side, and while it was interesting work, it left more to be desired.
If JPM's position is looking at the underlying risks baked into the models, long-term career ops will most likely be model development in a large FI, not a bad gig by any stretch of the imagination.
GS's strats are well known across the Street for being the best at what they do. The derivatives start group does some really intellectually stimulating work and has great ops beyond the position (think HF or Prop trading).
With regards to culture, they are both top notch. Throughout my personal experience, I found GS's culture to be a peg higher than JPM, but as a wise VP told me who had worked at several BB's across the Street, the culture is more or less the same across all them.
I'm sure that someone on this forum could give you more color on the actual groups themselves. Best of luck in your decisions!
High Pay/Better opportunities: JPM/GS? (Originally Posted: 03/28/2011)
So the question is essentially in the subject; which companies in your opinion provides the best mix of work life balance/promotion opportunities/pay?
USPS delivery man......seriously
Oh theres choices......id say GS longterm because there are better exit opportunities. while your're there....JPM
GS vs JPM (Originally Posted: 02/04/2010)
Hi,
I'm trying to pick between GS TMT and JP Morgan TMT for a summer associate position. Where should I go based on strength of the franchise, where that's headed, training, deal flow, exit opps, and ease of converting to full-time?
Muchos Gracias !
GS TMT hands down.
Seconded GS.
I don't know who AnonymousDude is, but I know 1styearbanker is an analyst at BAML. The fact that you have summer associate offers at GS and JPM is fantastic... but remember that you're getting advice from an analyst and a random voice on the internet. The analyst track and associate track are completely different, that's the only remotely legitimate advice I can give to this dilemma.
There are no exit opps for Associates. You either get an offer and are placed on the track to be a lifetime banker, or you don't. GS and JPM are equivalents. Either one is a kick-ass place to be.
Then I guess I have to introduce myself. Just as the OP, I'm an MBA candidate at a top-tier Bschool. I worked for one of those firms before attending school and it's highly likely that I'll will work for one or the other over the summer. If the OP were asking about Lev. Finance, I'd have advised to go JPM; however, GS TMT > JPM TMT on the margin. But, you're right, in the grand scheme of things, both firms are equally great and congratulations to the OP are in order.
meet the people in each team and determine who you like working with more
JPM more prestigious than Goldman... (Originally Posted: 10/09/2008)
I hate to admit it... really hate to admit it, but I believe that it's true - and will be more true going forward. This is awful news for me, as JPMorgan is one of the worst places in the world to work, so one would have to sacrafice job satisfaction for prestige.
'Tis a sad, sad day indeed.
What is your rationale for saying this? I still feel like Goldman is more prestigious than JPM, and it seems to be harder to get in there as well.
as a corollary to this, i think jamie dimon has established himself as the boss of all bosses
What is with this obsession with prestige? It seems to be a major discussion of yours.
Anyway, I agree with you that JPM is going to rise from this crisis significantly stronger.
I guess while we are on the subject of the changing landscape....Do you all think Morgan is going to get bought out? I do...
the financial industry as a whole has lost a lot of prestige, so it really doesn't matter a whole lot. And for the little that it does matter, goldman is still at the top.
re: MS - Well... I don't see Mitsu paying $25 for something that's selling at close to $10, so, yes, I see a Citigan Stanley in the very near future.
re: difficulty in getting in - there might be differences in obtaining the initial interviews (not sure about this) but my JPM interview was actually a good amount more difficult than my GS one...
My MDs are always talking in internal meetings about how JPM has picked up tons of market share.
Strange - my interviews were just the opposite. My JPM interviews were cake and the Goldman guys totally grilled me. I guess it probably just depends on the interviewers you get.
In regards to MS and Mitsubishi's investment @ $25, they keep saying it will go through but really, with the stock at 12 now and MS facing a potential credit downgrade...
Morgan put up 1000x better 3Q earnings than Goldman, and yet Morgan stock tanked and is in range for a takeover, while Goldman held strong. I see a severe drop in Goldman's stock price in the very near future. Up until a week ago, JPM was actually up in the past year 4% while Goldman was down (40%).
JPM might be in a better position for the coming year, but I still think long-term that Goldman will hold the prestige title. When JPM picked up Chase bank it kind of tainted it - Goldman still seems more old-school even though they are becoming a commercial bank too.
Hopefully you're right, but it's right now a bit of a worry whether Goldman will actually be able to survive this thing independent... the Wells rumors are looking more and more likely... then Goldman guys would be working alongside with gulp Wachovia bankers.
Yeah I just don't see how Mitsu would consider paying $25 or so for a firm that seems to be on its way to trading in the single digits.
I just have this feeling that Citi might purchase Morgan...
Insiders that I know at both firms have been hearing things recently... one of the reasons Citi may of walked from Wach instead of upping its bid is b/c of potential with Morgan.
Also another question...
What would be the rationale in buying Morgan Stanley? Isn't there a ton of overlap? If you look at the IBD business, the gap between the 2 firms is not worldly.
What synergies are there?
I can understand the Wachovia rationale (i.e. expand branch footprint), but I do not see the same logic with Morgan.
JPM vs GS West Coast (Originally Posted: 02/06/2009)
Guys--would appreciate some insight between the two firms for the summer.
GS Pro's 1. GS is GS 2. Strong TMT presence
Con's 1. Potentially low offer rate?? (can anybody counter this?) 2. Low job security...rumors of analysts getting the "1 yr" program, IBD -> HR placement, et al
JPM Pro's 1. Strong bank, if not strongest right now (correct me if I'm wrong) 2. Strong job security 3. No more FT recruiting, so SA is the only way in
Con's 1. Not sure how strong West Coast presence is
Things aren't so fun in GS right now. I'm not going to deny the low offer rate, but if you know you can do an outstanding job and work great with your team, then take that. If you already have your GS offer and have met some on the team and think you'll work well with them, then take it.
And I wouldn't be so sure that you'd find better job security at JPM. Everyone I know there is just as worried.
JPM's west coast practices are well below par. There's no better shop on the west coast than GS, although MS is very close.
Couple of my buddies told me that GS did in fact lower their offer rates. They're stuffed with qualified candidates right now.
agree w/NYstateofmind...that being said go with GS.
I've had the impression that JPM is pretty notorious for laying off ruthlessly. The first analyst layoff that I heard about was from JPM, which was spring 2008 and the analyst was a first year
agree on the offer rate point, they are well known for being stingy. that said if you don't know your offer status until November, you're well positioned to leverage your potential summer offer in the market
a buddy in TMT NY told me that two of the summers with offers turned them down to go to silverlake and bain cap
are people seeing more PE firms starting junior analyst (out of college) programs?
Is extremely small. Are you talking about LA or SF?
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