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Lazard (clear leader) JPM/ CS Sponsors (pretty equal)
I've always heard CS Sponsors is a really good group. But would it still be a good group to be in if no buyouts are occuring?
I would go for
That's ridiculous.
Lazard is clearly the best of those three.
I'd say JPM > CS Sponsors since JPM has a pretty clear brand advantage. I think WSO overblows the importance of groups within firms - many people who have gone through the PE application process say groups within firms are not as important as actual firm brand. But sponsors is a great group...
This is fundamentally a question of whether you are just looking at PE/HF exit opportunities or broader exits such as corporate development, or complete industry switches.
If the former, then Lazard is most likely the winner. If the latter, then CS and JPM are both ahead of Lazard.
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Obviously Lazard the best
going to lazard doesn't make ur chances better than if you're going to jpm.
..anyway, jpm lev fin, M&A or FIG would be my choice after Lazard restructuring.
keep in mind that a product group trumps an industry group.
I'm making it up as I go along.
wow there are so many lazard trolls on WSO... it's funny because all of my friends who interned at lazard over the summer rejected the full-time offer because they absolutely hated the culture. JPM or CS hands down >>>> lazard if you want to retain more than an ounce of happiness
According to Lazard, they gave offers to 85% of their summers this past year and 100% of those offered accepted
I call bullshit. My friend who interned there and is going back speaks very highly of it and says he would only take GS TMT over Lazard if given the choice.
how do i post a fucking thread it keeps saying that it is unpublished damn it! oh and BTW LAZARD > JPM > CS
xnslw3 -- can you PM or respond regarding Lazard culture? Would greatly appreciate more information. Thanks!
Lazard will work you to the bone, but out of those three, it is the clear leader
LAZ, BX, GS, MS generally have the best PE exit opps. Top groups at JPM/CS will place fine, but I wouldn't rank their firm as a whole quite as high as lazard
Just curious, which groups for JPM do you consider "top"?
The general consensus on this board seems to be that LAZ/BX/GHL are tied with GS/MS as the top banks as far as prestige/exit opps go. JPM and CS would be slightly lower.
Lol wow I can't believe people would choose Greenhill over GS/MS or even JPM.
WTF how is Lazard clearly ahead of JP? Blasphemous.
yeah maybe its a tie between LAZ and JPM but agreed I would not choose GHL over GS/MS/JPM. But I guess some people do, who knows.
What you have to understand about this site is that a lot of people like to talk out of their ass without knowing a damn thing.
Lazard is a prestigious firm, but anyone who says it is a clear leader over JPMorgan is an idiot.
The reason a lot of people perceive JPM as having slightly lower prestige is the fact that it is a huge bank with a lot of business areas and not just an M&A shop or investment bank.
This year JPM is the clear leader in M&A. Look at this WSJ article:
http://blogs.wsj.com/deals/2011/01/21/2011-league-tables-jp-morgan-surges-out-of-the-gate/?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed:+wsj/deals/feed+(WSJ.com:+Deal+Journal+-+WSJ.com)&mod=deals
(Notice how I am citing a source to show I am not talking out of my ass like some of these clowns)
Look at how well JPM is doing. Lazard ain't doing too shabby either at #3. They are definitely a great shop, working on deals like Continental/United.That is a firm I would work for any day. They are mad prestigious and will give you great exit opps, yes.
But to say they are clearly ahead of JPM is fking retarded. For some people Lazard will be a better choice, for others it's JP. Don't base your decision on what some dumbass college kids think about these firms. They get all their opinions from reading other people's posts anyway, so it's like the blind leading the blind.
totally agree moreover, lzd is known to be one of the worst sweatshops, especially in tmt
This seems right to me as well. And yes Lazard is a sweatshop, but it's not as bad as people make it out to be.
+1 Would go with JPM
You need to consider size differences and the fact that this is 15 days worth of deals
While I agree JPMorgan is a great firm (it's impossible to say better or worse vs. Lazard) using league tables of half a month's deals as an apples-to-apples comparison of a firm with less than 1000 bankers (Lazard IB) and a firm with over 2000 (JPM IB) is not the best metric. In fact, if this were year end results you can argue that Lazard is more impressive than JP because they did 3/4 of their deal volume despite having less than half as many bankers.
Using this table, Morgan Stanley and Evercore would be comparable UniCredit because they are lower on the league tables simply because they haven't worked on a big deal yet this month
Both are great firms but these league tables are 15 DAYS OF DEALS and it doesn't take into account firm size.
JPMorgan is a great firm, and at this point it's comparable enough to Lazard that I would choose based on culture, etc. but it's ridiculous to compare a firm with 2000 bankers (JPM) and 1000 (Lazard) using 15 days of deal volume and say it's an apples and apples comparison. Even if these tables are legit (they are not), it's easy to argue that Lazard is more impressive because they do 3/4 of JPM's deals while being MUCH smaller.
Using this data, Morgan Stanley and Evercore are not as good as UniCredit
I figure all three would be great for PE exit opps and when its such a close competition you should consider the team members of the desk and the culture. I have interviewed with LAZ and JPM and frankly liked the people and culture at JPM better; that said wherever you go be it JPM, CS or LAZ they are going to work you to the bone so forget the fact that many people say that LAZ hours are brutal. The groups you have mentioned are all top groups so I figure the hours would be equally brutal.
LOL wow did someone from JPM make 3 accounts and give me 9 monkey shits in 2 minutes? Seems pretty unlikely that 3 separate people gave me 3 monkey shits for the same 3 posts all at the same time. Doesn't seem like a very JPMorgan-ish thing to do, but guess they are mad jealous of Lazard.
xnlsw, JPMoreGuns are probably the same person, and they prob both work at JP Morgan. xnlsw made a ridiculous post, got called out on it, and got pissy and made new accounts to monkey shit people who disagreed with his blatant misconceptions. Way to rep for JPM.
I don't know why this debate even exists. Lazard > (or at least =) GS > JPM > CS, this should be common knowledge. Peace.
I made my account before you even responded to this topic, and I have been lurking here for a while. Do you even work in the industry?
Beef had the most reasonable answer. There is no "clear leader", it depends on one's situation.
Notice how you didn't actually address the argument, and instead are just focusing on ad-hominem attacks.
And would someone really create an account named JPMoreGuns solely to support an argument on a JPMorgan/Lazard thread? I would think no one on this site is THAT thick.
And from where I'm sitting it just sounds like you're mad that you got monkey shit thrown at you... looking at your profile, you have 46 MS's and 13 SB's. Even before this thread, you had almost a 3:1 monkey shit to silver banana ratio, and that doesn't surprise me at all. You're a real contributor.
Again, what are your qualifications for making the claims you are making? Ask anyone who is actually in the industry if Lazard is a "clear winner" over JPM. Again, prestige is subjective, and whether you are talking about prestige or an overall firm rating, there is no clear winner between the two. Both are great investment banks to work for.
For the record, JPMorgan is ahead of Lazard on the Vault prestige ranking (JPM is #3, after Goldman and Blackstone). Not that these rankings matter much, but it goes to show how subjective prestige is.
Oh damn, I thought you had me when you posted league tables of 15 days worth of deals, but you then PROVED your point by referencing Vault. You're right, good game to you sir.
HAHAHA you're kidding me right? Any guesses on how many times more bankers JPM has than LAZ?
If Toyota has more revenue this year than ferrari, that makes it the better car company?
I am not sure they have more bankers in IBD at JP than Lazard...
For example, Rothschild in Europe has more bankers than any other ibank....
Comparing Toyota and Ferrari to JPM and LAZ? Please tell me you have more intelligence than that.
also, those league table numbers are for 15 days (January 1-January 15th this year).
He goes to Princeton. He is a senior now, never had an SA internship. Random, don't laugh at different banks / make value judgments based on hearsay, you might just end up working there.
Who are you talking about? I may be misunderstanding you but I've never even been to Princeton.
I'm not a senior... I'm a junior working at a BB this summer.
want to make an update to an earlier comment...restructuring groups are dying right now
deal flow is lacking.. levfin, M&A, and industry coverage groups should be chosen over restructuring groups at this point in time.
Yes. Restructuring was strong during the height of the crisis. Lazard was especially killing it in restructuring, to the point where they had M&A guys doing restructuring deals. Now, however, I would agree that levfin, M&A and industry coverage groups are the places to be.
fuck the vault rankings
let's breathe guys
JPM = Lazard > CS
DONE
Your qualifications are irrelevant because you posted some league tables and referenced Vault guides? You say you've made intelligent arguments because of league tables and vault guides?
Yeah, I'm done talking to this boutique kid. Go back to helping bakeries merge with ice cream stores.
Are you too good to talk to him? Is that why?
No, because he doesn't seem to get that tons of deals with 200k employees Lazard? And by that logic, BAML > GS?
Btw I was kidding about the boutique, I think it's pretty obvious he works at JPM.
people like randombetch is what the subprime is in trouble
lol lots of JPM nuthuggers here. continue please
Random, this has nothing to do with whether you are wrong or right, you may well be. The point is the attitude that every letter you type effuses arrogance so potent that I can almost feel it. The fact that you felt confident enough to get involved in this debate when you have not worked a day in the industry yet is what hurts you.
You could say exactly what you were trying to say with a different tone and win the argument. Or, even better, wait until you have worked at least a day in finance before arguing with someone who has about the incremental difference in prestige between two great banks. It is like a high schooler claiming that it is laughable to claim that Yale is better than Princeton for pre-meds when you are arguing with a Harvard kid who has brothers at both places. Whether or not the Harvard kid is wrong about using US News as one of the many data points to back up his point, don't you think that he is a lot more likely to know more about the topic ?
Slow down ,take a deep breath and relax. You are bloody intelligent, that is obvious (don't get a boner just because I complimented you), but you have to learn to restrain your desire to always be right and realize that some arguments are not worth having. Sometimes it is more important to build friendships and not look like a tool.
Also, you've made it pretty easy for us to ID you. We know you went to Princeton, we know you majored in Economics, we know you have a 3.8, we know you are going to a BB this summer that is not JPM or BOA or probably GS/MS since you would have mentioned that by now if it was so it is probably a lower BB. Or you're probably at a boutique like Lazard, not Greenhill in all likelihood. We also know your writing style, and I am sure if we combed through all of your posts we could find more clues. Long story short, not that hard to ID you, particularly if you're going to be a Lazard this summer. And all over a stupid argument that was not worth winning in the first place.
Your silver banana to monkey shit ratio is 1 to 5, that should speak volumes to you. I know it is a weak metric and I know this is online and you may be different in real life, but it is what it is and I'm not convinced that you would be. That will not get you promoted to MD, or get you good peer reviews. You've got to change that round. I don't know you in real life, but if I were you I would look deep and hard at myself and my circle of friends and see if there was something I could do to make myself more well liked.
Buuuuuuuurn.
@pinkbanker
nah bro he claimed he got an SA offer at Citi before he furiously went back to his old post and edited it lol
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