How to deal with getting fired?

Greetings,

I used to work for a real estate finance company that mainly offered third party services to banks doing real estate loan securitization. As I'm sure you all know, that market is currently tanking, and today I was fired, although it is unclear whether my firing was linked to the state of the market not. They told me that they would give me written and verbal recommendations. I recently passed level 1 of the CFA, and one of the things my bosses told me was that they did not feel I was interested in real estate (which is true).

My question is:
How do I deal with this when applying for new jobs? I would like to work in ER/AM, but it is kind of hard to imagine ER/AM firms hiring someone who was fired from his last job when they have so many qualified applicants from which to choose. What should I say when asked about why I stopped working at my last firm? How much harder is this likely to make my search for an ER/AM job? Any input from people who actually do hiring in those areas would be invaluable to me.

Lastly, have any of you personally succeeded in getting a good job you desired after being fired previously?

Thanks for your help.

 

First, i've never been fired but that's besides the point.

Second, sorry that you were fired. That sucks.

Third, I would ask your old firm if you can stay employed without pay so that it looks like you are still employed with them as you lateral to another firm. [I know of this happening with a friend who worked for a HF a few years back before his mba, he said he wasn't compensated fairly, and they said he's fired but he can still say he's employed so that his resume looks continuous)

My advice is to do this, and good luck with your search.

p.s.- Out your firm

 

It may be too late, but you really should ask to find out the "official" reason. Request an "exit interview." Because interviewers will ask you the reason. And it won't go over well to say "I don't know" or "I never asked them".

On the bright side, it doesn't sound like you were fired for "cause." People who are fired for cause don't generally get recommendations (I'm assuming that they meant what they said when they offered recommendations).

Never heard of the employed-without-pay thing. I cannot imagine taking a newly fired employee, allowing him access to the building and resources, and not paying him. That's HR suicide.

Sorry that you're going through this - it must feel like a kick in the face. Good luck and keep going.

 
Best Response

well i got "fired" / "let go" from the first PE firm I worked for 6-7 months after I started with little to no explanation (in boston). even worse, they wanted me to sign a release that they had no fault / wrong doing, etc. and they were going to pay me $10k. I rejected the 10k (joke) because if I sign that piece of paper then I have no leverage, and out of principal what they did to me was completely wrong. i was not going to sign something saying that i agreed with what they were doing when they gave little valid explanation / warning.

I managed to get another PE job in NYC and I've been here doing great for 2 years. (i worked for 2 years in ibanking with a guy that was at the NYC PE shop and he vouched for me that i work my ass off).

when it happens you feel like you're career is screwed, but if you are up front/honest and become an interview guru you can turn the situation around.

turns out, about 6 months after i left, a bunch of the large investments headed toward bankruptcy, the partners had a falling out and the investmenst professionals were basically cut in half. (from i think around 16-17 to 8)...interesting that i was cut right before all of that went down. maybe they decided the easiest way to get rid of thier employees was LIFO.

overall, not cool.

 

I should be afraid if I were you... :( Chances are, most HR will do a reference check and call your previous employer's HR. And if you are applying for another buyside position (I'm assuming that you are), the chances of that happening is roughly 110%.

Man, I really hope you can find another gig. Everyone deserves another chance. Too bad most employers are narrow minded and act like they are a better person for not screwing up while being on the clock - fuck them.

 
globalmacrotape:

I should be afraid if I were you... :(
Chances are, most HR will do a reference check and call your previous employer's HR. And if you are applying for another buyside position (I'm assuming that you are), the chances of that happening is roughly 110%.

Man, I really hope you can find another gig. Everyone deserves another chance. Too bad most employers are narrow minded and act like they are a better person for not screwing up while being on the clock - fuck them.

Why take someone who has screwed up when you could take someone else who hasn't?

"You stop being an asshole when it sucks to be you." -IlliniProgrammer "Your grammar made me wish I'd been aborted." -happypantsmcgee
 
sonibubu:

Wait...you're the buyside analyst and got fired for yelling at a broker who I'm presuming doesn't even work for your company??? That's a bunch of bullshit. I thought the difference between buyside and sellside was who gets to say "fuck you" when...

There's a difference between a politically-said fuck you and losing your cool.

"You stop being an asshole when it sucks to be you." -IlliniProgrammer "Your grammar made me wish I'd been aborted." -happypantsmcgee
 
sonibubu:

Wait...you're the buyside analyst and got fired for yelling at a broker who I'm presuming doesn't even work for your company??? That's a bunch of bullshit. I thought the difference between buyside and sellside was who gets to say "fuck you" when...

This was my first thought when I read it. I am generally respectful and appreciative of my sales coverage but when/if they are being obnoxious I'm not afraid to be rude. What did you possibly do and how did it get back to your employer? The salesperson tattled on you for getting his feelings hurt? I can't think of anything I could do our sales coverage that would get me fired from my job but not sent to prison too. Please elaborate.

 

Inevitably this will come up. Assuming your prospective new firm knows someone where you got iced they'll get the low down.

Shit happens though. I was fired from BB BO and ended off much better

I'm on the pursuit of happiness and I know everything that shine ain't always gonna be gold. I'll be fine once I get it
 

Have your story to a t and be vague. Someone will give you another chance.

I'm on the pursuit of happiness and I know everything that shine ain't always gonna be gold. I'll be fine once I get it
 

have you approached them about being able to say it was mutual decision or you left on your own accord rather than having to tell future employers that you were fired. It will be tough explaining that reasoning above to someone else and have them want to hire you where because you disagreed with something it influenced your work so dramatically you had to be fired

 

If you worked at a bigger bank/firm with a separate HR group, you would've been safe in that a) most big firms nowadays only reveal your dates of employment and your title and b) more importantly, can't reveal why you left.

Since this is a family office, you need to:

1.) Make sure your boss/reference says you got laid off or as above, lets you use "Present" on your resume. Seems like you got this covered. 2.) Shoot your resume out everywhere, especially to recruiters

Good luck.

 

TB, im not worried about a background check as my record would come up clean. I did not break any law, just violated a company policy. If its true that former employers can only disclose salary, title, and dates of employment than I plan on saying I was laid off.

 

I haven't personally been fired, but I have known others who have been. It is definitely not the end of the world. Keep your head up pal. This kind of stuff happens to the best of us. Sounds like the work environment was pretty poor too, if you got fired for expressing yourself.

 

Calm down. Here's what you have to check up on:

1.) Can you get a positive reference from anyone from your previous company? A positive one from a co-worker can work well if your boss says no. 2.) Most big firms can only confirm a) dates of your employment, b) your title, and c) if you're eligible for re-hire. The last point may be tricky to navigate, but it's not a dealbreaker. 3.) Update your resume, shoot it out everywhere, and reach back out to your contacts/continue networking. 4.) Find something in the meantime to take up your time while you apply for jobs. Go hard at the gym, pursue some new hobbies/interests, etc.

 

Thanks guys I actually heard from my colleague that my dept. is going through enormous restructuring. I was not the only one to be fired but there were couple ahead of me, and there will be much more. I worked for one of the Big 4, and I've never heard any first yr workers getting fired in Accounting industry... since this is not IB...

 

Your English gives me the impression you are an international student or a foreigner. Is there a chance the way you asked was not culturally appropriate?

The above suggestions are good but I think it will help you far more in the long term to learn how to be a good fit.

IMO comparing your colleagues' opportunities the way you did in your post just seems unprofessional.

 
wso1234:
Tell them the truth. Let go because of budget constraints, though your performance was high quality. Offer references to back this up.
Lying is pointless b/c they will find out. Spin this story to your advantage.

PMd you

Get busy living
 
  1. Eliminate emoticon use.
  2. Tell the truth- honestly doesn't sound like it will hurt you
  3. What city are you in/looking to live in?
"For I am a sinner in the hands of an angry God. Bloody Mary full of vodka, blessed are you among cocktails. Pray for me now and at the hour of my death, which I hope is soon. Amen."
 

First piece of advice, file your unemployment claim immediately.

Also stop speaking like a leprechaun (referring to the typo in the thread topic). But seriously I'm not in a very different boat. If they made cuts all the way down the poll, meet up with a VP with whom you worked directly and who also got the axe and see if he will give you a rec. If you were at least a likable guy and you worked hard he probably wouldn't hesitate to throw you a referral as well if he hearss about an opening at the analyst level. I did this recently and my VP gave me some great advice which I now bequeath to you. He said "JulianWells, you aren't the guy from Wharton who was doing 2 years in GS TMT when he got laid off. Cast a wide net, get yourself in front of as many people as possible and when somebody does hire you, make everybody like you and work your ass off."

Maybe you were that guy from Wharton and you were at GS. If so just flip your resume out and you'll be fine. Either way, good luck man. Hope everything works out.

 

sorry to hear, dude. also, what a shitty firm that you work at to be firing people left and right. This thread is a good reminder of why working for a more prestigious employer is important. I couldn't imagine GS or MS getting rid of their entire S&T guys on top of firing junior guys in IBD left and right. In short, this firm is really fucked up.

 
Sexy_Like_Enrique:
sorry to hear, dude. also, what a shitty firm that you work at to be firing people left and right. This thread is a good reminder of why working for a more prestigious employer is important. I couldn't imagine GS or MS getting rid of their entire S&T guys on top of firing junior guys in IBD left and right. In short, this firm is really fucked up.
Because a firm has to be GS or MS in order to qualify as not "really fucked up."

Prestige has nothing to do with layoffs nowadays; everyone does it.

 
Sexy_Like_Enrique:
sorry to hear, dude. also, what a shitty firm that you work at to be firing people left and right. This thread is a good reminder of why working for a more prestigious employer is important. I couldn't imagine GS or MS getting rid of their entire S&T guys on top of firing junior guys in IBD left and right. In short, this firm is really fucked up.

Were you on the street in 2008/2009? Were you on a trading floor in 2008 at any major bank? You have no idea what you are talking about it. It has nothing to do with the firm or prestige. The nature of the business is over-hire and over-fire and all the your so called "top frims" do it.

 
seedy underbelly:
You sure it wasn't your fault at all? http://www.wallstreetoasis.com/forums/slacking-as-a-new-hire-ib-analyst

Anyways, definitely tell the truth. You don't want to make things worse.

And feel free to PM me. Had a family member go through a similar situation.

Good luck!

LOL. looking at that thread, I think OP was in danger of getting fired from the moment he started his job... the workflow at his firm must have sucked, and it is really no fault of OP that shit like this happens. I mean, if that firm doesn't have work for him to do, then it is a pretty good sign that he's about to be laid off sooner or later...

 
sorry to hear, dude. also, what a shitty firm that you work at to be firing people left and right. This thread is a good reminder of why working for a more prestigious employer is important. I couldn't imagine GS or MS getting rid of their entire S&T guys on top of firing junior guys in IBD left and right. In short, this firm is really fucked up.

Almost all the FT class hired in 2007 in S&T for Bear Stearns had their offers rescinded. They didn't even get a chance to step on the floor before being axed. This firm at least gave him a couple of months on his resume...another way to look at it.

Sexy_Like_Enrique (horrible name btw), trolling hard

I'm actually curious what kind of person this guy/girl is to have such a screen handle.

 

You do know it is fairly easy for them to verify your previous employment? Either their HR can directly verify or they could use an outside agency to do some digging. Sounds like you f*d yourself...

All the world's indeed a stage, And we are merely players, Performers and portrayers, Each another's audience, Outside the gilded cage - Limelight (1981)
 

HR confirmed they would not disclose the reason why I left. like i said... I worked hard and did decent work while I was there. I feel like they knew I wasn't committed to staying so they found a reason to fire me.

 
dexter91:

HR confirmed they would not disclose the reason why I left. like i said... I worked hard and did decent work while I was there. I feel like they knew I wasn't committed to staying so they found a reason to fire me.

Sounds like me. Now I'm screwed for b-school apps. Note: Unless you're in banking, never ask your boss for a recommendation!

 

Read Monkey business. I think when your MD or HR tells you something like: "hey xxx, do you have a minute? can you pop by my office. we need to talk", you should just say no.

get back to your desk. delete all your mail, web history etc and get your private shit out of the drawers and get ready.

 
PIGS:
Read Monkey business. I think when your MD or HR tells you something like: "hey xxx, do you have a minute? can you pop by my office. we need to talk", you should just say no.

get back to your desk. delete all your mail, web history etc and get your private shit out of the drawers and get ready.

It'll be really funny if you do all that and it turns out they wanted to promote you.

 
PIGS:
Read Monkey business. I think when your MD or HR tells you something like: "hey xxx, do you have a minute? can you pop by my office. we need to talk", you should just say no.

get back to your desk. delete all your mail, web history etc and get your private shit out of the drawers and get ready.

this happened to me but instead of getting fired i got my bonus number

 
PIGS:

Read Monkey Business. I think when your MD or HR tells you something like: "hey xxx, do you have a minute? can you pop by my office. we need to talk", you should just say no.

get back to your desk. delete all your mail, web history etc and get your private shit out of the drawers and get ready.

This is exactly what I did.

Can't IT check your deleted emails/web history?

 
Im with Busey:
Make sure you find a way to smuggle out all of the contact information (phone numbers, e-mail addresses, etc.) you are going to need.
Haha now I see why bankers hate the CFA so much. Talk about an ethical burden.
Always be improving
 

Thanks for opinions, but any more tangible advice on what one can/should ask for while being fired would be appreciated. Specifically things I have already referred to: 1) Can I negotiate bonus (assuming I'm getting fired during the year)? 2) Can I negotiate longer gardening leave? 3) Can I negotiate some sort of other compensation (doubt)? 4) Should I ask for recommendations/referrals? 5) Should I say anything else / ask for anything else?

 
orange100:
Thanks for opinions, but any more tangible advice on what one can/should ask for while being fired would be appreciated. Specifically things I have already referred to: 1) Can I negotiate bonus (assuming I'm getting fired during the year)? 2) Can I negotiate longer gardening leave? 3) Can I negotiate some sort of other compensation (doubt)? 4) Should I ask for recommendations/referrals? 5) Should I say anything else / ask for anything else?

A few things...

  • ask how long you will continue to get benefits (health, dental, etc)
  • ask about your severance pay (if you're getting fired, you have no leverage and you won't be able to negotiate)
  • ask if HR will give you a neutral / positive recommendation (i.e. if HR from a new firm calls HR from your old firm, the old firm won't say you got fired, rather they will say you left on neutral terms)
  • if you have the Series 7, ask what will be on your U-4
  • don't burn any bridges...take your lumps like a champ and be the bigger guy
  • withinm 24 hours after you get the ax, make sure to call a few people who you had good realtionships with and explain what happened and ask if you can use them as a reference
 
orange100:
Thanks for opinions, but any more tangible advice on what one can/should ask for while being fired would be appreciated. Specifically things I have already referred to: 1) Can I negotiate bonus (assuming I'm getting fired during the year)? 2) Can I negotiate longer gardening leave? 3) Can I negotiate some sort of other compensation (doubt)? 4) Should I ask for recommendations/referrals? 5) Should I say anything else / ask for anything else?

If you are signing any sort of General Release, then definitely counter whatever money/benefits they are offering you and ask for more. Depending on what clauses are in the General Release you should negotiate for money. If the money is paid in the form of a salary, (as opposed to a lump sum bonus-style), then you will have to wait that period of time before claiming unemployment benefits.

 

A lot of times, they'll just call from a conference room. If you see a Conf room ID pop up on your phone, do all of the aforementioned.

I would say if anything, keep an updated resume handy and make sure someone (preferably a superior) can give you a good rec. regardless. Nowadays, banks seem to be laying off and re-hiring almost simultaneously. Most places know that if you get laid-off, it's not always because you were a bottom performer.

 

the industry is a smash and grab buddy. if you were in it you'd know. If you can stay you stay, period.

im asking if i should start looking around right away, and if there are any pitfalls to this....

 

Tis' the season. I know that feeling (with the exception, I'm the reason why some are going bye-byes). I just haven't showed up to work In the past couple of days since everyone has been getting whacked. The underperformers really HAVE TO GO. Remember kid MONEY DOESN'T HAVE ANY FRIENDS.

"The higher up the mountain, the more treacherous the path" -Frank Underwood
 

If you're certain about getting fired, start looking for a job you can see yourself doing and quit as soon as possible. It's better to leave with your head (slightly) up than getting canned. If you do get fired soon, be aware that it WILL be a conversation topic with future recruiters. They always asked about previous employment. Good luck.

 

Start looking now so that you'll land something on time. If they fire you, you get severance and you'll have a new gig on top. Dunno if some firms have a clause where severance is only partial if you find something earlier than a certain period or not, but yeah - easier to find and land something while you're still employed. So start making some calls.

 

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If the glove don't fit, you must acquit!
 

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