So I was going through the intern profile list for my BB on this website they set up for us interns. So you get to choose the division you want to view, and profiles of interns with their schools, majors and stuff show up.
So I randomly went through the Global Markets Technology Analyst page, and from what I see, kids are all from lower ivies (Cornell, Brown, UPenn), top publics (Michigan, Berkeley, UVA) and top engineering programs (Illinois, Georgia Tech)..and two from Wharton, one from Ross and two from columbia, and two or three from bottom of totem pile type of college. Also two technology Associates from UVA MBA and Columbia financial engineering. So generally speaking not the top targets for bankings but still highly respectable/semi target type of schools. Most of these kids major in business or engineering.
Then I went to the Operations Analyst page, and most of the kids I see are from bottom of the stack type of colleges like St Johns, Pace, Indiana State, Purdue.
So they are both in the undesirable backoffice, can someone explain why the huge difference in candidates?
So the question is, based on this observation, is tech better than ops?
This is kind of a shot in the dark but I believe that tech for markets is a different animal altogether in the back office. They are basically programmers....I think.
i noticed the same thing.... which BB are you talking about?
I believe he or she is talking about Citi, since Global Markets was mentioned...
I believe technology analysts help write code, programs, screens, macros, etc for the traders. Therefore it is somewhat like back office work (i.e. more stable hours, lower expectations, lower bonus).
but that's not really my point though. Obviously technology analyst is back office.
My point is, both tech and ops are in the back office. However, looking through candidates profiles for this year's internship program, most of the "global markets technology analyst interns" are from what you would consider semi targets for banking (Cornell, Brown, UPenn (non wharton), Mich (non Ross), Cal (non-Hass)) sprinkled in a couple from targets like Wharton, Ross and Columbia;
yet the operations analyst interns are all from bottom of the totem pile college like pace, st johns, american, northeastern..
Is there a reason behind this? It's just mind boggling.
not all back office is the same. the tech analyst position seems like a reasonably interesting position if you like programming and finance and don't want long hours or a terribly stressful job. I can think of no possible situation where operations would be "reasonably interesting."
Schools represented for Global Markets Technology Analyst UPenn (Both Wharton and non-Wharton) Dartmouth Columbia Cornell Michigan (both Ross and non-Ross) Berkeley (Electrical) Carnegie Mellon (Both Tepper and Computer Science) Georgia Tech RPI Baruch (Masters in Financial Engineering)
Schools represented for Operations Analyst SUNY University of Illinois - Chicago (the not so good campus) Howard UNC UNC- Charlotte Pace North Carolina A & T St Johns Georgia Tech
Pretty huge difference if you ask me. But both back office.. I thought ops is closer to front office than tech
That is obviously someone trying to make themselves feel better.
If you are an IT guy, you wouldn't be on this forum, and you wouldn't be debating the merits of tech vs. ops. So if you're in technology and on this forum, most likely you are a failure. You can try to slingshot into ops, and then into FO, thats pretty much your route.
Everything I have seen indicates that technology is one of the worst positions you can work in at an investment bank unless you are looking to go the technology route (ie. want to be a programmer, want to basically support operations). Technology will head various "initiatives" which are basically just reworkings of the old school useless systems banks have in place. You will learn little to nothing about finance and alot about the various networks and systems which keep a bank up and running.
Don't let BB information sessions and bitter analysts in technology trying to delude themselves lie to you.
I am not working in BO so I am by no means bitter. I was just looking at the intern class' "who's who" (basically a list of people's name with their schools and majors) and going through all the different division and observed that the school caliber for the global markets technology program is much higher than that of "operations" and "enterprise technology" so I was wondering why because I have always heard that tech is the bottom of the pile filled with guys who dont use deodorant or nontarget people.
Tech requires skill/interest in programming. A lot of people who graduate from top schools WANT to be programmers, and the pay in Tech at banks is pretty good. Not every CS/engineer is going to end up at Google.
Ops requires no skill. Someone with a HS diploma can do it. It is 100% administrative work, i.e. filing, making sure trades are booked correctly in the system, making sure payments are made to/received from clients on time. In my opinion they are overpaid for what they do.
I know these distinctions are fluid but at the bank I worked at it was Front Office: IBD, Sales, Trading, Structuring, Research Middle Office: Market Risk, Credit Risk, Finance, Legal, Quant Analytics, Technology Back Office: Operations, IT (as in the people you call when your PC breaks)
If I were you I would avoid using the term "back office" to describe anyone, just say their division. Otherwise you can come across as being elitist.
but that still doesnt explain the people from Wharton, Ross and Tepper.. and a couple of econ majors. You dont go to top target bschool to get into programming, and you dont hire programmers from top bschools and top econ programs... so that still doesnt make sense. and what do those kids do as technology analyst without the programming experience?
Oh one other interesting thing, there's also a division called "enterprise technology and transfer analyst", is that the and it's also a bunch of kids from non-targets.... so what's different between the 2 technology division?
Where does internal auditing fall?
While some may disagree, there is a difference between MO and BO, not very big but significant enough for them to classify it that way.
Lol you called him out? The least you could of done is PM him. He may want to keep his anonymity.
problem solved
The answer to this is simple. The technology program usually hires freshmen/sophomores from good schools (especially strong Engineering programs). The operations program usually hires juniors from lessor schools. Why? Beats me, but this is what I've seen.
Wow, were there no Cornell, Dartmouth, Brown kids in FO?
I did not say that. There are. and I am one of the only ones that aren't in fact.
I know a top Comp Eng grad who decided to start his career at MS in NY. As a programmer, they get paid extremely well for having a CS/CE degree, they do different work then at a place like Microsoft. Some people prefer that, so in a sense these are the people who are turning down top tech jobs. So the pool of candidates is better. Nobody wants to be in Ops, so the pool is much worse.
Also beleive it or not bloomberg pays their programmers more than Microsoft does at entry levels, and many of the banks have specialized groups in technology which pay in a similar range.
i know several people from my target school who turned down microsoft, etc to work at goldman tech. they recruit from a different pool than ib and a much, much different pool from ops
2 questions.
I am confused now. Are IT and Technology two different divisions?
I will be in the trading technology intern program supporting the trading desk with pricing systems and stuff. I am not a computer science major. I have really really shallow knowledge of programming and database but not really good at it. Am I screwed? Do they expect us to know programming and will I not be able to do most of the task they'll ask me to do? Or do they basically just want you to learn the programming on the job since different people have different programming language background anyway? Everytime I talk to the manager guy he just tells me to pick up books about fixed income, even when I ask him what I can do to brush up my skills on the technology side, he told me to learn trading math??? Should I expect to be fired for incompetence since I am not a programmer?
thanks
Citi would make sense since there is no one from Harvard, Yale, Princeton, Stanford or MIT. Citi isnt able to get those people because Citi sucks
lol, we are talking about back office job here....for citi front office jobs, like ibd, they got a tons of ivy kids, at least 35% of incoming class is from ivy league schools..
judging from this dudes past posts, im pretty sure this is ml/boa
We'll see
i know jpm has the same thing
.
There should be a rule about posting real names and such it is in really poor taste.
thats not him. this guy's commodity trading in houston
the only thing worse than posting real names is posting the wrong real name
still an asshole move, though.
You started six of your sentences with "So". You would be a good fit for Operations.
to Hiding_forlife: that's me. why are you posting my info?
If that's really the case...why would you admit that here?
Jeez...
what's up with this sudden string of people trying to "unmask" the wso users? let's keep it anonymous or people will not want to post here any more.
While I don't condone it, FWIW, it seems to only happen to people who make comments that rub people the wrong way:
London - No comments needed. OP - Bizarrely interested in hearing validation that tech is more prestigious than ops, while assuring everyone that this is not about him because he is not in the BO.
but don't post unless you are sure because now you are involving innocent people and the guy does not accept private message that's why I need to post here
how was I supposed to communicate with him since he does not take PM? I just want him to edit his post
Well, I'll delete my comment then in the event he does decide to edit his.
Also, maybe you should try contacting a moderator.
thank you.
"Oh the ladies ever tell you that you look like a fucking optical illusion" - Frank Slaughtery 25th Hour.
Well since I am a mod, I am going to delete his post... Just wow btw I checked the intern portal and LOL
All info now gone including Bear's Quote
trade4size, you are an asshole for posting old videos of me!
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